I don't know what to do! I currently BF my 16 week old lo to sleep at bedtime, but the second I put him down he starts crying. If I BF him a couple more times to try again, the same thing keeps happening over and over. Some nights are better than others but tonight was a vicious cycle. I literally had to lay him by my side and put my nipple in his mouth and then I was able to sneak away when he fell asleep. He's also a terrible napper. I breastfeed him for naps too, try to put him down and then his eyes are wide open. I feel like he might be too young to sleep train and wanted to wait until at least 6m. We do have a bedtime routine we do every night too.
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You will get a wide range of responses re: when to sleep train, but I personally agree that 16 weeks is too young. Will he take a pacifier? Otherwise I would nurse/rock until what I like to call "limp noodle status", where they are asleep HARD before laying him down. We also coslept, which helped immensely...sounds like you have him in a crib?
Sleep is so hard. And it sucks when you're in the middle of it, but it WILL get better. Hang in there, mama!
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I do agree on getting him to "limp noodle status". I used to nurse or rock/ bounce my older one to sleep and then literally look at my phone and force myself to wait at least five minutes after I was sure she was asleep, then put her down. Of course this meant bedtime took forever and DH and I were somewhat miserable at times. We also used to rock and bounce her to sleep sitting on a big exercise ball- saved our knees and the movement was very soothing.
However- we did sleep train at that age. She was just crying for so long even with nursing and bouncing for ages, and we were all losing our minds. It felt awful but also made a huge improvement. I hope you can figure something else out but if you do end up needing to cry it out earlier than planned, its ok too.
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@bees_knees: He takes a pacifier, but he ends up spitting it out and keeps crying. We actually co-sleep too which makes it easier for me to put him to sleep (rather then laying him in the crib and him waking up over and over every time I put him down). I wasn't planning to co-sleep but quickly realized we would all be sleep deprived if we didn't, he hated the bassinet on the PNP. I do his naps in his crib. If it's his first nap of the day the same thing happens. He won't sleep in it and will cry once put down. Once he gets so tired though from skipping a nap I can get him in the crib without him waking up. It's hard bc he always wants to be laying on me for sleep or held. The other dilemma I have is do I let him sleep on me for naps so at least he sleeps or do I scrap the nap altogether? Did you do CIO for sleep training and at what age?
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@Foodnerd81: I've tried rocking him to sleep, for some reason doesn't work for him, either does the swing. Yeah I guess I'll have to wait a bit longer before putting him down. I was also just worried that I'm creating bad habits but I'm sure he'll be fine once sleep trained. I'm already feeling guilty about having to do that too, but I know it's best for him to learn to self soothe.
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@MsBAM: Any chance he's overtired? How long is he awake in between naps? It doesn't make any sense, but over tired babies don't sleep well (this seemed to be VERY true for my two!) At that age, I can't remember if we had much of a schedule, but I would just pay very close attention to sleep cues and try to get him to sleep before he gets too tired. Do you babywear? That was lifesaving as far as napping while needing to be held goes. IMO, I would do whatever it took to get some sort of nap, vs just scrapping it altogether.
We did CIO with no checks--DS1 was 11 mo, DS2 was 8.5 mo. It worked better for DS1 than DS2 (I don't know if that was personality or age or what?), but it made a WORLD of difference for both of them. Heartbreaking to do, but worth it for everyone's sanity!
Funnily enough, I also said I would NEVER cosleep (haha) and then that I would NEVER EVEr CIO (hahahaha). Never say never, right? What did I think, I was going to have some magical unicorn sleeping babies?! Do what you need to do in order to survive!
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@bees_knees: I can tell when he is getting sleepy so I BF him then so he sleeps. He usually gets tired an hour after being awake in the morning and then about every two hours. He probably is overtired because when he won't go down for a nap then he will go 3-4 hours without sleep and then finally will take a nap. He only takes 30min naps too. I think he just has a constant need to be held when sleeping. Ive stopped holding him for naps lately, it makes me feel guilty bc I know he won't be small forever and but I was trying not to create bad habits. I do baby wear, but he doesn't fall asleep when I wear him. I guess I'll have to hold him so he can get some sleep during the day! Haha, I also said I would never do CIO and here I am now thinking it's what I need to do! LOL!
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@MsBAM: I can remember this age being so hard because he is still so young, too young to sleep train usually, but old enough that you really worry about creating bad habits.
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You said you have a bedtime routine... can you change it up by nursing first (since nursing to sleep isn't even working anymore) and then doing other things and concluding with something else (even rocking or patting or whatever for a few minutes and then work on changing that later if you need to - there are good threads about how to wean off of rocking!) We wrote the routine down and followed it to the letter, every single time, and it worked wonders. The only problem was we felt like we had to keep our kids in sleep sacks forever because that was part of our routine and a very clear signal that it was sleep time
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@MsBAM: Well, I'll be the dissenter. ETA: I'm just going to be blunt at some parts, I swear I'm not trying to be mean, just very direct and helpful.
I think 16 weeks is perfectly fine for sleep training and so did my pediatrician, as do MANY sleep professionals. We did it right around that stage.
Here's how I see it: sleep training isn't pleasant, but it doesn't sound like you think your situation is particularly pleasant either (or else you wouldn't have posted). Sleep training is unpleasant for a few days, maybe a week (if you are consistent and do it right). Not sleep training and doing what you're doing can last for months...or years! So that's how I weighed it. I can endure a week or so of unpleasantness (which actually gets better each day anyway) or I can endure months or even years of unpleasantness (losing sleep for both of you and precious "me" time for you).Everyone is different, but for me it's a no brainer.
Look, it sounds like you have already formed a bit of a habit. And that will not be easy to break, but it can be done if you stick to it. I agree with @charlotte: about first making changes to your bedtime AND naptime routine. Really they should be almost identical. You should have the same triggers for sleep for naps and for bed. For us it was dark room, sound machine, swaddle/sleep sack, binky, a small amount of rocking till drowsy (the problem with rocking till "limp noodle" is that they will not learn how to go to sleep themselves and that will persist for a long time) and put down in crib. For bedtime the only difference was bath and book before everything else above.
When consistent, they will literally get drowsy when the sound machine goes on and the sleep sack gets zipped. I bet that right now when you go to put LO down and put the nipple in his mouth he gets heavy-eyed and drowsy. Same concept, but you don't want it to always be the boob. It can be a binky, a sound, a sleep sack, etc. So I agree with feeding not being the last thing before going down in the crib.
Once that routine is solid I would put him in and walk out. I'd start with bedtime first. When he starts crying, I'd go in and soothe without picking up. Replace paci, rub chest and shush, whatever. If that escalates him then maybe I'd pick up for a minute and rock/shush and put back down when he's calm. If that is still escalating (which from your original post it sounds like it might), I would just close the door and let him be.
First night will be HARD. It could be an hour or more, usually on and off. But you have a video monitor I assume, so I just went to my room and shut my door, turned volume off and just looked. I could see he was fine, he wasn't in trouble. And just wait it out. I want to again reiterate - I'm not an animal. It is hard and I cried. But guess what? He stopped and went to sleep. And the next night it was shorter. And shorter the next. And the 4th night he fussed (didn't cry) minimally and fell right asleep ALL NIGHT LONG 12 HOURS STRAIGHT. That was 3 years ago and he's sttn 12 hours and napped 1.5-3 hour blocks ever since.
And my son wasn't a kid that did well on short naps and poor night sleep. He needed it and sleep training was the fastest way to get him there. MAN did he do a 180. He became literally the happiest baby on the block. Just so content and happy when awake because he got good sleep. So we both got sleep/breaks AND our time together while awake was pleasant. Winning all around.So this is what I mean when I say that it sucks and it's hard and you feel like a bad mom at moments - but it's short lived and it works. Pediatricians all over the country say it's safe. I would rather have a few super sucky nights vs months or years of sucky days and nights. But, that's me. Also, it's WAYYYY easier to do CIO with a 4-5 month old than a 6-12mo or beyond. They get louder and stronger willed.
And after all this I would still say, do what you feel works for you. If it's just not in your DNA to do cio, then don't. It's also not fair to the baby if you can't let it run its course because then you're just letting him cry for long periods for no reason/benefit. I was the type of person who needed some space from the baby (i.e. Naps) and lots of rest. It was very bad for my mental health/PPD to be doing an endless rocking and waking cycle day or night. If you think it sorta sucks but aren't really bothered by it, maybe cio isn't for you.
But if you do decide to try it, there are lots of ladies here who did it at this age and had great success (@gingerbebe: and @lctbqe: are just a couple).
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@Charlotte @SweetiePie: I appreciate all the advice! Currently his bedtime routine is bath, book, boob. I haven't got much of a nap routine besides boob. I suppose I should start a nap time routine like white noise, book, boob, rocking so he knows it's time to sleep? And keep bedtime the same?
I don't know if I want to try changing his routine yet since my husband's first day back to work is tomorrow and gets up before 5am... I have no idea how long it'll take to rock him to sleep since he never sleeps that way? Maybe I could start on a weekend.
I don't know if this will be any indication of anything but we take 30minute car rides into the city when I have to go out. He hates the car and cries he whole time, like 15-25 minutes sometimes then falls asleep. Do you think he'll cry the same amount of time when I do sleep training then? I do plan to do CIO. Maybe I could just do CIO soon so I don't have to change his bedtime routine again? I might wait until his upcoming pediatrician appt first bc my pediatrician wanted him to gain more weight at the 2m appt. I think he's fine though bc he's almost double his birth weight and he's not even 4m.
Once he's sleep trained will he still fall asleep independently if I nurse last? I let him cry for five mins yesterday and he would just get more upset when I went into the room. Can I do CIO and cosleep at the same time? Also when I do CIO what do I do when he falls asleep nursing in the middle of the night? Is that ok?
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@MsBAM: I just walked out the door to meet some friends for brunch but when I get home I will sit down and type a response!
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@MsBAM: my kid does not have a personality for sleep training. He will not go to sleep crying. He prefers boob and my bed. Because I'm okay with cosleeping, I nurse to sleep, transfer to the crib, and he joins us around 1 am.
Over time he's slept much better. I love nursing him to sleep and I sleep through night nursing.
At that age I wore him in a carrier for naps. He needed me and it didn't last for long. It gets better, even if you never do CIO
ETA : kiddo is now 20 months. He falls asleep in the car with no problem (as opposed to crying for hours at 4 months) He also naps in the crib and starts his night there with no issue. It gets better. He won't sleep on you forever
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@Pollywog: Thanks for being so inspiring and reminding me it doesn't last forever! I co-sleep too. I've only tried putting him in his crib for night time once so far. He got up at 12am as opposed to his regular 3am. I do want to transfer him to crib soon though bc I feel like I disrupt his sleep when I get up at night or when my husband goes to work. Do you still nurse to sleep? Another reason I want him falling asleep on his own rather than falling asleep at the boob is because when I go back to work my husband will have to put him to bed. I'm also afraid that if I don't get his sleep in order now this will translate into years of him not being able to fall asleep on his own.
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@MsBAM: I nurse to sleep, but DH can get him down (as does daycare and my mom). They have zero problems. They have different strategies (DH walks him while singing, my mom rubs his back, daycare uses a CD).
My kiddo sleeps through anything in my bed including DH's alarm. We originally were going to push the crib, but I couldn't night wean (he refused a bottle until 7 months and needed to nurse all night. Right now he is in the crib until 1ish, my bed until 530, then DH moves him back in the crib until 730. CIO worked great for a lot of our friends, but if it fails there are other options
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@Pollywog: do you nurse for naps too?
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@MsBAM: I do if I'm putting him down at home. That's only about once a week or every other week. He goes right down for daddy or daycare or in the car. He nurses for less than a minute and is out, so I haven't tried a different approach.
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I haven't read all of the responses so sorry if this is a duplicate or not helpful....
My take on baby sleep is that everything is a "stage" and it will evolve as the baby gets older. Does that mean it'll get better right away? Absolutely not, but it will eventually. I was so worried with my first bc I nursed to sleep and I didn't know how to transition and then I just did it and it was fine.
I'm now on my second baby and bedtime was a nightmare from about 3 mos- 4 mos. It reminds me of your post. I'd nurse him to sleep and wait, put him down and he'd wake right up. The joke was that it took three times every night for me to put him down. And then he'd also wake up a few times thereafter and just need to be settled. It was pretty terrible. But I pushed through and now we are at 7 mos and bedtime is so much easier. Takes about 10-15 mins and I only have to do it once.
Basically all of this is to say that my advice would be to ride it out and enjoy the baby snuggles while they last... it's only a stage or phase and it will pass in due time.
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It sounds like you've hit the 4 month sleep regression, so you can either use it as an opportunity to sleep train (since they're sleeping like crap anyway) or you can ride it out and try something different after the regression passes. However, from your posts, it doesn't really sound like you're ready or really wanting to sleep train, so perhaps the status quo is just working best for your family right now.
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@Ajsmommy: Honestly this is exactly my baby! It usually takes me 2-3 times at night and then he's out like a light. How did you transition your first?
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@gingerbebe: I do want to sleep train just want to consult his pediatrician first, I'm thinking to start sleep training in a couple months. I was wondering if he hit the 4m sleep regression too, although he's never been the best napper so that's nothing new.
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@MsBAM: honestly I just waited until she no longer wanted to nurse to sleep. It was around 9 Months. She was eating enough food that she wasn't hungry. So I started reading get two books and then putting her in her crib. She did great and has been a great sleeper ever since
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"Sleep Training" means different things to different people. I think training to fall asleep can be done much earlier than training to not eat at night. Denying your baby food they need in the middle of the night is the bigger concern. Your problem is the falling asleep part.
Your baby clearly has a sleep association. It's very simple, you have to teach your baby to fall asleep another way. I like the cold turkey method because it's quick and simple (but it sucks for the few days it takes for baby to adjust!). But if you can't stand to hear baby cry you can do a gentler method. But bottom line- baby has to learn to fall asleep without nursing. You have to stop.
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