Right now our almost 4-week old is on a more-or-less schedule of eating ever 2.5-3 hours (formula fed) which I believe is pretty normal. Of course this means sleep is pretty much non-existent for me. But I'm wondering what happens when he starts sleeping longer at night. Will he only do that if I increase his feed amount and therefore he's tied over for longer? Or will he naturally start doing it on his own, and still taking the same amount during feeds, just more often during the day? It's probably my sleep-deprived mind, but I can't figure the math of it all out, and if it's something that just happens naturally, or if I make a change in his feeding at some point. Any advice or experiences to share of how it works? And when did your baby start sleeping for longer stretches? I need something to look forward to!
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*All my opinion below! But it did work well for us.
So it's a little controversial, But there's a book called 12 Hours by 12 Weeks that talks about the science of how a baby gets to sleeping through the night. They have a whole formula on the amount fed during the day and why/how that helps them sleep at night. It's been 2 years since I've read but I remember it making a lot of sense.
The gist is that if you get them to drink at least 24oz during the 12 daytime hours they can easier make it through the 12 night time hours without feeding. They recommend a 4 hour feeding schedule with at least 6oz per bottle. It rang true for us.And while the book can seem a little harsh, it's definitely possible to stick to their key tenets and modify it to something you're comfortable with. There were certain things I was ok with and some I was not.
Oh and we didn't even start reading the book till he was 12 weeks! And he was STTN about 4 weeks after I started (16 weeks or so). Depending on your level of comfort and sleep deprivation, you could read it now and begin implementing whenever you feel ready. It's a very short and easy read.I really need lots of sleep and my emotional and mental wellbeing was severely impacted by lack of sleep. So for me, just waiting for him to do it completely on his own seemed impossible. He did get down to every 4 hours or so at night but that still was brutal for me. So I used the book to get a solid 12 hours. And it was my pediatrician who actually urged me to drop night feedings at 4 month well visit because he was healthy and didn't need it any longer.
Good luck!
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@SweetiePie: Thanks! I think this early that would be way too much to give him for a feed, but that makes sense in a few months. I guess I am just confused when people say around a month or two their babies started sleeping for longer stretches (on their own?), and I'm not sure if that means I have to increase his feedings when he does that? It's like a chicken-egg scenario and I can't figure out what to do first.
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@Goldengirl: oh yes that's way too much to feed right now! Sorry I thought you meant eventually didn't know you meant like right about now extending night feedings. The 6oz per 4 hours is something you gradually work up to by 3-4 months. Sorry I misunderstood!
ETA: but I guess in the same train of thought, they do naturally start taking more per feeding and extending the amount of time between feedings, which does slowly translate to them sleeping longer stretches at night. When my son got to 4-5 hour stretches at night, we hadn't done anything to get him to do that. I think it happened naturally because his bottles were slowly increasing over time. Does that make sense?
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For us it was two things:
First, I started giving him a larger amount at night time. For us at the time that meant 3 or 4 oz. I can't remember which, but I do recall our pediatrician saying I wasn't giving him enough every time we saw him. When this started at 3 or 4 weeks, I was pumping and he was also getting formula too.
Second, LO just started to figure out day vs night and the longer stretches began at 5/6 weeks. At that point I was exclusively breastfeeding and would handle night 8 pm to 6 am all on my own. He would wake once maybe twice a night to nurse.
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This confused me too! As LO began stretching out feedings / dropping feedings, I worried that she wasn't getting enough to eat. But it honestly worked itself out. She never was a big eater (I think the most she ever ate in a day was around 25 oz? Hard to know because we combo fed) but she was a chubby baby
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@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: So he just kind of naturally started sleeping longer hours at night vs the day? Ours currently seems to be more awake at night, unfortunately!
@daniellemybelle: When she stretched out/dropped feedings, had you increased them, or you mean she just naturally did that on her own and didn't need more the next feed? I'm always confused if he sleeps extra long (for instance goes 4 hours instead of 3 between feeds), will his body need to make up that missing half ounce or whatever?
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@SweetiePie: Yes makes sense! I guess on that note, I get confused about when to increase his feedings/how much to feed. He currently takes around 3.5 oz each feed which seems to be on track with what I've read. But I often feel like he'd gladly take more, he's sucking right until the end, and everything I've been told says that "they'll tell you when they're done"... he never really seems done! But I don't want to overfeed either. Seems kind of crazy to have him at the max daily amount when he's so little. And with his reflux, I don't want him to get sick. It all seriously confuses me, it's hard to know how to just figure this stuff out when I have no idea about any of it.
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@Goldengirl: girl you just described every ftm with feeding! It's hard to know how much is right. Every baby is different!
I just looked back at my feed logs and at 4 weeks my son was also at 3.5-4 oz. I believe I offered 4 and sometimes he had 3.5 and sometimes 4. You could try just bumping up a half ounce every once in a while and see how he does.
It also looks from my logs like he went up about a half ounce every 2 weeks or so until he maxed at 8oz. That prob wasn't until 4/5 months. -
@Goldengirl: I just saw what you wrote to Daniellemybelle and want to check - when you say he sleeps for 4 hours and you're worried about missing ounces, do you mean 4 hours during the day or the night? One important thing to get their circadian rhythm sorted out is to not let them sleep more that 3 hours at a time during the day. So wanted to mention that in case it might help! Since you said he still seems to be more awake at night.
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Was in the same situation as you (incl FF) and would ask every mom I met how to get longer than 3 hour stretches!
What worked for us- swaddling, and the book 12 hours by 12 week. started the plan at 8 weeks and he was sleeping 6pm-6am with zero wake ups by 15 weeks.
To get longer than 3 hour stretches you really just need them to get bigger and their stomachs to get bigger, and they will start being able to take more formula at each feeding. As he ate more at each feed during the day, I kept the same number of day feeds, so I could gradually drop the night ones, one by one.
Also, he started sleeping longer at night when he figured out the difference between night and day. We had him in the crib in his room at night from day one, so that and a dark and quiet room at night, versus napping in the bright loud living room or stroller during the day helped with that. Hang in there! -
@SweetiePie: thanks that's really helpful since sometimes I worry he eats too much! It actually just happened where I gave 3.5 and he was still going a bit nuts after so I gave another half. But he was still sucking even after that so I don't always know if it's real hunger or just fussiness. Oh and sorry, I didn't mean he slept for 4 hours.. I wish lol! Just that it happened a day ago where he was up for a bit then passed out for awhile so he was 4 hours between feedings instead of 3.. so I didn't know if that meant he'd need more. By the time his feeding and diaper are done and he's soothed a bit from being fussy, the most he'll really sleep at a time is 2 hours if even... which is why I'm going a bit cuckoo.
@lioneyes: what's the gist of that plan? I always see people referring to books that I'd love to read but can't imagine reading a book right now without falling straight asleep.. if I even found any downtime! 12 hours sounds amaaaazing I can't even imagine! Right now I'd give anything for 5 hours.
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@lioneyes: just saw the second part of your post... I guess my question is if he's eating larger amounts but the same number of feeds during the day, how does he know not to wake up to feed at night? I.e. if he's feeding every 4 hours during the day, he didn't then wake up after 4 hours even at night? That's what I don't really get.. how do their bodies know to wait until the next day and to do that at night vs the day?
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@Goldengirl: The book @lioneyes: mentioned is the same one I mentioned! It really is very short. But I'm sure you could find a summary of it online. From what I remember:
1) keep trying to slowly get them to 4 hours between feedings and 6oz per feeding during the day. You can do this by just delaying the feedings by a few mins at a time and never going back to less time between than the last feeding. Does this make sense? And yeah, the more you delay feeding and the bigger they get, the more and more their bottle oz will naturally increase.
2) at night do the same. Try to never go backwards in terms of time between feedings. We replaced the paci over and over to keep trying the delay his feeding. He would sometimes take the paci and fall asleep for another half hour. But if replacing the paci over and over didn't work, it was time for feeding.
For example, if he goes down at 7pm and wakes up tonight at 9pm for a feeding, the next night you wouldn't feed him a minute before 9:01. Longer if you can. But never the same time as the night before. Does that make sense? Some nights I'd really be struggling to get even a minute later than the night before. Some nights he'd easily go another half hour.I think they also talk about decreasing the amount in the night bottle to wean off of the final feeding. But I don't remember since it's been so long.
Really, it's a very short book and very effective. I would recommend it!
Also, how long does your lo stay AWAKE at a time? Between naps, I mean? At night is he going right back down after feeding?
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@SweetiePie: thanks for all the tips! Since he's still so young I've just been following the feeding on demand schedule... is 4 weeks too early to be delaying his feeds if he's screaming for food? (It's happening right now!) I was worried that could be counterproductive or cause him to overeat and be sick. And no he definitely doesn't go back down after feedings at night I wish! Sometimes very alert and needs tons of rocking and soothing to pass out. I think his days and nights may still be confused.
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@Goldengirl: My son ate a crap ton of formula. I don't remember how many ounces exactly at that time but he always ate more than normal amounts. Anytime he hit a growth spurt he ate more too. I always increased by one ounce at a time. It's so hard to figure out how much they want to eat. My guy would throw up on occasion when we tried to figure out his feedings. But I would rather accidentally overfeeding then have him be hungry. I really don't know the science behind how they sleep longer, they just do and every baby is so different. It does make a difference with when babies pick up how to self soothe. Hang in there.
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I breastfeed but I've always pumped for a big bottle before bed. That and good habits help with longer stretches. White noise, dark, swaddle. Don't change the diaper unless they poop. OH and bed time routine. We've started it about 5-6 weeks with both kids. Bath, lotion, jammies, bottle, swaddle, lie down. White noise on.
I would suggest trying to add an extra ounce to the last feed before bed after your routine and see if that gets you a longer stretch. Good luck!
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I'll go against the grain here and say we didn't put much thought into it and LO just started sleeping a longer stretch at night. We did have a strong bedtime routine from very early on. But I didn't intentionally mess with when or how much she ate. She never really varied from 2-3 between feeds during the day, but droppped started lengthening her first sleep cycle from 3 then to 4 then to 5 etc hours.
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My lo was breastfed until 6 months and I do remember trying to cluster feed him in the hour or two before bedtime. If your LO still seems hungry after his bottle, it might be worth a try to add another 0.5-1 oz and see?
Though I'm totally with you on the feed by demand at this wee young age, I think it is important to try to get his days and nights sorted out. That's important for not only sleeping (duh) but also learning to feed more during the day. I think most babies learn this naturally and therefore do end up sttn at some point. Some do go through reverse cycling, though, and from what I read that is terrible. -
Babes have pretty pronounced growth spurts at 3 weeks and 6 weeks that are doozies so you may also be juggling that. Both my boys (who had colic and reflux) were doing 3-3.5 ounces per feeding except when they had growth spurts they would pound much bigger bottles more often and want to nurse forever.
My youngest is 6 months old now and his 6 week growth spurt was crazy. I pumped and supplemented that week because he was SO SO hungry and I couldn't handle him at my boob 24/7. I remember clearly that he hadn't ever taken more than 3.5-4oz and then during that growth spurt he wanted 5-6oz every 2-2.5 hours instead of 3. He went from 24oz a day to 32-36oz! The spurt went for a solid week but after that he settled back down and wanted 4.5-5oz every 3 hours, plus he got a 2-3oz top-off feed before I went to bed. That meant he got most of his calories during waking hours and cut his night feeds to one or less. So that's how the ounces increase - they go through growth spurts and their tummies stretch.
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@Goldengirl: he also had a a couple days of cluster feeding. Im sure that coincided with the growth spurts someone else mentioned. We kept nighttime very different from daytime. Low lighting from another room and listened tothe TV through the Roku remote headset. When it was nighttime we didn't try to engage him. Im sure through the night time fog this all sounds very similar. He was great sleeper until about a month ago.
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@Goldengirl: My son was also formula fed and if my memory serves, he was always at the max amount per day. He was on a 4 hour eating schedule for a long time, I would say probably at least until a year, which meant even though he could sleep long stretches according to age and weight milestones, he never did (not to sound pessimistic, lol).
We used a formula system where it was stepped according to age, so in some instances, we had to introduce food in order to keep him full (and he wasn't a chunky baby). -
For us, it was never about being fuller so that was more a myth in my book. Honestly I think it just took DD time to get to longer stretches on her own. I was breastfeeding and crazy about monitoring her weight gain, so I was happier not sleeping and feeding her than the other way around, lol!
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Dd was ebf, so it's not quite the same, but she did it on her own. Once she was back at her birthweight we stopped waking her up to eat and there was one night, before she was 2 months even, where I woke up at 6ish and realized she hadn't woken me up.
Ds is now 6 weeks old, so hopefully he'll get that same memo soon!
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@Goldengirl: So, I almost always breastfed first and then offered LO formula because I had low supply. We were doing this every 3 hours or so around the clock at first. Then she started stretching out her Eat-Play-Sleep routine because she could stay awake longer. So, the amount of time between feedings was increased, but I would nurse her and then offer her a bottle and she didn't drink any more formula after nursing. I have no real reason to believe my breast milk supply had increased considerably.
Eventually she stretched out her awake time so that she was dropping naps and dropping feedings and I think actually posted this exact same question, haha, because the math was just not working out to me! But I just kept doing what I was doing and she kept growing and all was okay
If she finished a bottle and still seemed hungry, I would offer her more, but she really wasn't a big eater so that didn't happen often.One factor here is that even though I supplemented probably 40% of her diet, breast milk does change to have a higher fat content as the baby gets older, so maybe that had something to do with it?
Oh, and... I did end up supplementing more at night to get her to sleep better. For a while I was just nursing at night more for ease than anything else and because she was happy to fall back asleep after nursing a bit. But she did sleep longer if she had bottles so I think around 4 months we started back up with formula overnight.
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