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@gotkimchi: oh yeah definitely. Figure out what sets her off! For my girl, things that set her off are: too much activity, not enough activity, not enough attention, too much attention, not enough sleep, being hungry, being told to eat because she’s acting hungry, being told to go potty when she is obviously doing the pee pee dance, lack of my full undivided attention.... see? If you can just avoid all of those you are golden!

3-4.5 was bad -- but she also started full-day kindergarten at 3y9m, and we had her sister at 3.5, so that was likely part of it. Now at 5, she's pretty good unless tired, hungry, sick -- the usual suspects.

@gotkimchi: Don't hate me, but my 4.5 year old is a joy. Buuuuutttttt....She's very different from her little sister. It's my second who is the spirited, challenging one. LO1 never went through the "terrible 2s" or the "threenager" stage or any noticeable change at age 4.

But my littlest has been challenging through every single stage. I can't say that one stage is any worse than another because they're all challenging, in terms of behavior. I don't post about it much, but I am considering if she should be evaluated for sensory issues or...something, anything. Like I know a lot of people experience these hard stages, like you mention in your post (tantrums at 6:30 in the morning), but I feel like my youngest tantrums so often and is so emotional about every little thing, I wonder if it's typical behavior or something else.

Anyway, one think that's helped ME cope is just recentering my expectations. I once wondered to myself "What if this isn't a stage, and she's just a difficult personality? What if just waiting for this stage to end isn't going to work? What's my plan for the next 18 years to love her for who she is, keep our bond strong, not compare her to her sister, meet her where she's at?" It's like I had to talk myself into admitting maybe this isn't a stage and it's just her. For some reason, that relaxed me. I turned my focus from getting through right now to figuring out how to help her navigate these emotions and personality quirks. Like, if this is how she is and how she'll always be. what can I do to help her navigate life?

I read a lot of parenting books for tips. I only have about 30-40% execution rate (executing correctly that is), but even that small amount helps and centers me in my parenting. If that makes sense.

I don't try to wait out her stages anymore and I don't try to work against her personality. It makes me a more calm parent when facing those frequent tantrums.

@gotkimchi: if you haven't already read it, I really do like "How to talk so LITTLE kids will listen". I'm not exaggerating when I say it was life changing.

I'd read Janet Lansbury's "No bad kids" when my oldest was little and it's rooted in a lot of the same philosophies except it gives more specific strategies.

Like one little thing is, My youngest HATES changing her clothes. Whether it's from clothes into pajamas, or the next morning from pajamas into clothes (or before a bath, or after a bath), there's just something about dressing/undressing she hates. And she's 2.5 and this is a lifetime thing for her. She screames, she fights, she runs away, more screaming. This was an every day struggle and we were trying bribing, threatening, prizes, physically forcing her. None of these were successful for more than like 1-2 times. And then the book suggested turning these tasks into a game (a non competitive game). So first, I messed up and I tried a "Timing it" game, and that backfired because it's competitive and if I said something like "Let's see if we can get dressed before the time goes off!" she would tantrum and scream if we failed and then eventually she wasn't motivated by the timer at all. So I picked the wrong type of game. Then I tried making a silly voice and saying "I am a clothes robot. I want to dress you. I want to take your clothes into my robot closet" or some totally lame thing. Well, it worked. And it continues to work.

I still have days where I forget the Robot and we'll be running alte and I'll try to make her hurry or try to force her, and it always backfires because she'll just dig in her heels and run away, or writhe around violently so I can't physically get her arms in her sleeve, etc. Like I have tried to physically sit on her to put pants on her because we'er late. But that's when I realize like, this is not working. This is not healthy for either one of us, and it's taking longer than just doing the robot game.

It's a constant process, but I prefer the non-violent ways of getting dressed, haha (and everything else she hates--brushing teeth, brushing hair, sitting in her car seat, getting out of her car seat--basically she hates most thing).

But I turned our previous battle-filled days to days without battles, so it works.

So no real help here, but just wanted to say that all my friends with little girls have independently told me 4 was terrible. Plenty of moms also tell me 4 was rough for their boys, but it seems to be more a shift towards later in that year - more like 4.5-5 was bad.

But one of my closest friends literally thought her fiance at the time would break up with her because the year they were engaged her daughter was 4 and a complete nightmare. She said she almost didn't make it cuz her daughter had screaming tantrums for like 3-4 hours a day, didn't go to bed until like 11pm, and literally only ate white carbs (basically, bread and french fries) that whole year. Previously she had been a normal happy toddler and today she is a normal happy big kid (2nd grade now I believe), but yeah, she shudders when she thinks of 4.

So, you're not doing anything wrong. I do think you should, for now, treat it like a developmental stage. My 3.5 year old is spirited and high needs and after every rough patch, I can literally SEE his brain development in action. He went through a rough patch recently and now he's suddenly talking in MUCH more complex sentences, he has longer complicated stories, he can carry a full conversation on the telephone, and he's successfully dismantling appliances in the house. DH and I just have to take a breath and tell ourselves "He's acting out because his brain is in overdrive. His brain is growing and stretching and working overtime, so he's tired and unsure how to handle all these new thoughts, feelings, and realizations." My mantra is to just BE THE BALLAST. Be the strong constant thing he throws himself at over and over again and just hold the line. I see you, I hear you, I love you, but you need to be safe, clean, and healthy. Over and over.

Between sips of wine.

@Becky: Well, perhaps I'm just surrounded my moms who have a harder time dealing with toddlers, I dunno. I am admittedly in that boat - I have a hard time letting crazy toddler behavior roll off my back. DH has a much easier time, meanwhile I'm breathing into a bag and Googling "is my child a sociopath?"

Four has been incredibly challenging for us. My daughter was incredibly well behaved, kind, and chill. Two weeks after her fourth birthday it was like a monster had taken over. She had her first tantrums at age 4. Constant whining, huge emotions, hurting me, hurting her brother.

The How to Talk book has been really helpful. Going outside helps. Setting her up with an audio story when I can tell she needs some space. Trying to make sure she has special alone time with us.
Its been hard. She turns 5 in April. I keep saying "I miss my sweet kid!" She has moments, and is really amazing in a lot of ways, but the days that she is home with me are long and require a lot of centering of myself, deep breathing, etc.

@gotkimchi: I actually lol-ed to the fuck you to the sticker chart. But actually the sticker chart is the only thing that semi works for us right now. It was a super slow process though and I’m not proud of how I dealt with the nightly wake ups.

@Anagram: I feel like we are in a similar boat in that my younger one is really generally pretty easy going, but my older one is just... not. She has a phase when she was about 8 months to 2 years where she was pretty easy. That’s pretty much it. She has wonderful things about her but she will always be more emotional, more high strung, more spirited, and I am really struggling with how to help her. And help me so we can still like each other by the time she is a teenager. I’ve been pretty discouraged lately about all of it.

I feel like the beginning of 3 and 4 were really hard. Maybe it was a time of developmental leaps for him? Anyways, I hope you have a similar experience - by the time he was 4 and a couple of months, he was back to being his old charming self (at least most of the time )

My my oldest, 3.5-4.25 was rough. It is so much better now at 4.5!

I am struggling big time with my newly turned four year old. Its a fight to get her out of bed every morning, getting her dressed, getting her to school....we’ve had at least three tantrums before getting out of the house. Then I get yelled at the whole way home from school, and then dinner is another big fight, and don’t get me started on bedtime. I can’t get her to do anything without threatening some sort of punishment.
I’m exhausted and frustrated. And it’s all made worse by DH saying things like “she doesn’t listen because you don’t follow through.” Grrrrr...he sees her for all of 1 hour a day and he just gets to play with her without dealing with any of the sh*t.
Don’t mean to thread jack, just venting and saying I completely, 100 percent sympathize.
DD1 had a rough 3 year old year, but was awesome by 4....I was hoping for the same with DD2 but I’m not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.