apricot / 351 posts
@LCTBQE: could you be more specific about what you mean about socialism?
wonderful grape / 20665 posts
@lindseykaye: my parents were similar in that they voted republican, but registered as democrats because NJ always voted Democrat.
I am registered independent, which in MA means I can choose which primary I want to vote in for each election. But I generally vote democrat and lean liberal.
persimmon / 1427 posts
I consider myself a liberal-leaning moderate. I'm registered Republican but have voted Democrat more often than not. At election time I tend to pick a few issues that are most important to me at the time (e.g. gun reform) and vote for the candidate that most aligns with those goals.
GOLD / pomegranate / 3156 posts
Independent. Moderate on economic policy. Socially I'm liberal.
honeydew / 7433 posts
@josina: that’s what the Libertarian party is.
I’m a right leaning Libertarian. I mostly agree with all the the principles our party stands for. I’m extremely socially liberal and fiscally conservative.
@Ajsmommy: you should also check out the Libertarian party.
apricot / 350 posts
@jennlin821: The first reason to abolish the DoE is that it violates the 10th amendment. But I'm going focus on the practical aspects rather than constitutional law.
The DoE has been historically bad for two reasons: it uses a one size fits all approach, and it imposes restrictions on schools to implement said policies. Don't like standardized tests? You to have the DoE to thank for that. Don't like the unilateral banning of certain books? DoE.
Another downfall of the DoE is that whatever party in power is likely to use it to their own ends, using our public education system like a pawn for their own agenda. Both Dems and Repubs have done this, to ill effect. Keeping education in the hands of the states--and by extension, local school boards in towns and cities--means that whatever programs are adopted will be done so out of pragmatism and not as merely a political ploy. And when local school boards see that a policy isn't working, they can more easily replace it with something else. The bohemath that is the DoE is slow to respond and it is difficult to change sweeping policies.
Since the DoE was created, school performance has been on a steady decline, despite the amount of money spent per student going way up when adjusted for inflation. We can't blame everything wrong with schools entirely on the DoE, but I do think a lot of the bureaucratic problems in schools can be traced back to it.
pomegranate / 3667 posts
I know it sounds good to say I'm bipartisan or moderate or independent.... but I'm not. I bleed blue. I am a solid Democrat, with centrist / liberal leanings (as opposed to progressive / socialist).
I have voted Dem in every election, up and down the ballot, and I plan to do the same in November. I am going to have an election party with white and blue balloons and cake and activities for the kids, every November from here on out. I wear all white and blue every election day. I've even thought of taking a personal day to be a poll worker, but, I'm a social studies teacher so I guess that's my role to play!
I am political junkie and read a bunch of op-eds and political blogs. I livestream Congressional hearings and have all my reps' phone numbers saved to my phone. I donate to candidates and put up signs.
I have 2 caveats:
- I believe in capitalism and free market competition, with regulations and restrictions to encourage fair and ethical competition.
- I favor restrictions on abortions, to probably an extreme point. My views on this point have opened up more as I've gotten into childbearing years, and I understand that the REAL solutions are personal and not political, but truly I think terminating a pregnancy is ending a life. Can it be done ethically? I *think* so, in some cases. But by and large, that's the one issue I'm not solidly Dem on. Also, I never vote based on that issue.
pomegranate / 3687 posts
wonderful apple seed / 16831 posts
I don’t think fiscally conservative and socially liberal or moderate (me) is an oxymoron.
I wholeheartedly believe in the right to privacy and believe the 14th amendment is to protect people from discrimination. However, I don’t support all entitlement programs in part because I think their is waste and inefficiency in the process. Government regulation is good and necessary and in some cases needs more funding like the FDA and EPA. However, I think government spending has gotten way out of control and we simply do not have the population to tax to keep up with what we spend. There are creative ways to keep government bodies functioning that do not cost the taxpayers. For example, DH is a Federal employee, and the institutions he regulates pays a fee which is how they fund their operational budget. It would be amazing if one day the Federal Government had to deliver a balanced budget just like the states.
pear / 1568 posts
@DesertDreams88: this is interesting because I used to be less pro-choice but having kids has really made me see how difficult it would be to be in that situation and also I now strongly believe that anti-abortion views are a direct result of the patriarchy and are men trying to hold women down. If they cared about life they would support maternity leave and other programs to help moms, they would care about gun control etc etc. but until they can prove to me they care about protecting life I think they should shut it. I also think it’s such a slippery slope when the government is intervening in medical procedures that it makes me uneasy overall. I wish people wouldn’t need abortions because we had comprehensive sex ed, great working mother programs, male birth control (which the trials got shut down because it wouldn’t be a “money maker”) and a host of other reasons, until then, I think we must be pro choice
grapefruit / 4224 posts
@jennlin821: Libertarian in so far as rights and liberties go I guess. But minus being pro-life which is my one outlier. I think the govt should have zero to say about legislating morals or limiting our freedoms. I don’t even think the state should have a role in marriages, I’m a pacifist, etc. Regarding social programming I am in favor of some* of it like universal health care because that makes financial sense but not all of it - like super high taxes for wasteful government programs. Basically I hate government
apricot / 362 posts
I’m liberal across the board but don’t really identify with any party. In local elections I usually vote progressive, and moved where I live now partially because my state got a waiver to work on socializing health care.
Even though I’d happily pay more taxes to make sure that no one dies for lack of health insurance, I do believe that we should view our tax dollars as investments and take a critical look at the federal budget. And I’d love to hear from some of the fiscally conservative/socially liberal people about what spending, specifically, they think is waste. Realistically >50% of federal discretionary spending goes to the military, and increasing military funding year in and year out seems sacrosanct, but if we really want to deacrease spending it makes sense to look at the biggest slice of the pie first. Also, people seem to forget that most of the laws we have were put in place for a reason. It’s like with vaccines, almost no one is dying from measles now, but that doesn’t mean we can stop vaccinating. Same with things like social security and SNAP. We don’t have thousands of children starving in our country now, but that’s because we’ve put in place a program to keep that from happening, and I really don’t care if a handful of people get extra food on my tab if it means fewer children going hungry.
I also don’t think either party is for smaller government, the republicans just have different priorities about how the govt should intervene in our lives (ex abortion, protest, supporting corporate rights over workers’ rights).
coconut / 8380 posts
I am extremely liberal and identify as a democrat. I don’t like govt waste (looking at you defense budget) but I think that by giving people a safety net and a hand up, we create a stronger society. I think healthcare and childcare should be affordable, I believe in social security and making higher education easily accessible. I believe in a woman’s unrestricted right to choose what’s best for her body and her child.
cantaloupe / 6020 posts
progressive/democrat. I believe in social justice and that historically our public policies have fostered massive racial and gender inequalities that can only be undone through active, collective approaches
persimmon / 1096 posts
I’m solidly liberal and a democrat. Most of the actual Dems in office, however, are just embarrassing. Political theater makes a mockery of our institutions. I’m so over it.
I used to lean farther left when I lived on the Left Coast tbh. Many of my politics are still very left-leaning but I don’t always buy the nuances of socialism based on some observations from living in Europe. I saw pluses and minuses to the more socialist-trending governments, such as universal healthcare (amazing plus) but a paternalistic, “government-as-omniscient-caretaker” thing that really shapes society in ways that I don’t think are the best for people (scary minus).
Also ideas even more to the left of my own seem to work when they are deeply tied to widespread norms, beliefs and value systems that I don’t see reflected in this country (i.e. legalizing all recreational drugs, eliminating all guns everywhere). These experiences have made me think that our country, in her soul, is healthier under left-of-center leadership instead of the other way, but not so far to the left that we don’t recognize ourselves.
Fiscal conservatism is not something I’ve lived under in this country, so I cannot really say that I endorse it or not. It sounds good but when is the last time it has ever been the implemented by the party in power? I think the insatiable defense budget is directly linked to our country’s love affair with capitalism. If we could dial that back to a dull roar, we could probably balance the budget and pay for programs (healthcare, childcare) that support society and help families.
Thank you to everyone for answering this poll honestly and thoughtfully. I appreciate everyone keeping it civil and not attacking anyone else.
I'd still like to learn more about other political points of view. I get a lot of my political information reading online (Slate.com is one of my go-to's) But besides heading over to foxnew.com, I don't know which right-leaning publications are reputable and understandable. Anyone got suggestions for me?
clementine / 796 posts
In the past, I've voted Republican more often but have voted for both parties from time to time. I prefer to pick a candidate by the platform/issues rather than vote a straight party ticket. I'm more conservative fiscally and more liberal socially.
Lately, I don't feel either major party represents me. They both seem to be more and more extreme, with fewer moderate candidates (which is what I consider myself to be). Even in the major elections, including the last presidental race and our state's election for governor, I feel forced to vote Libertarian because neither major party candidate is someone I can support.
@jennlin821: WSJ but it's behind a paywall. I'll ask my friend who is GOP. The NYTimes used to publish a weekly round-up of conservative articles from other news sources, it was great. I haven't seen it in awhile.
@Margaret Baddelachs: WOW!!!! This is excellent. I really appreciate the time you took to write this. I’m going to take some time to digest it and read it again, but I’ll definitely have a few questions. I’ll absolutely check out YouTube like you suggest. Again thank you!!
nectarine / 2000 posts
@Margaret Baddelachs: Bravo! Educated, poignantly written with purpose, and succinct. I, absolutely, agree with you.
pea / 10 posts
Oh my gosh, tried to make a minor edit and lost the whole post! Thank goodness I saved it- I am reposting!
So I'm a long (long) time lurker and registered just to respond to this post, first because I think it's a great topic and very timely,but also because I feel like there is a lot of confusion and some misuse of terms.
There is nothing at all inconsistent about being socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Many, many people fall into this category, and it can mean a variety of things depending on the person. For example, some people are strongly in favor of things like abortion rights, gay rights, secularism, etc, but are opposed to the behemoth that is the modern federal government with its bloated and unbalanced budget and labyrinthine administrative agencies. Many people are opposed to the never-ending war machine or billions in aid to countries that squander and steal it, or to the welfare state. Other people are strict Federalists and see the enormous and enormously expensive modern federal government as a betrayal of the foundations of what our State/Federal balance of power was intended to be. There is no internal inconsistency there.
Liberals- true classical liberals- value the individual and the rights of the individual. The right to contract, the right to freely associate (or not), the right to speak freely, the right to labor and keep the fruits of ones labor, etc. I think people forget about pesky things like property rights, religious rights, bodily autonomy rights not related to abortion and yes, gun rights, when we discuss liberalism and "rights."
I think there is a lot of confusion because some people in the US use terms that aren't exactly accurate and aren't used that way historically, nor today in the rest of the world. An example of this is the Left/Right. Looking at a political axis and perhaps even taking a political axis test can be very helpful in determining where exactly you fall.
I am in my early 40's and have voted a straight Democratic ticket for my entire life. I have mostly been registered as an independent, but have never cast a vote for a Republican. That said, I am officially, 100% DONE with the Democrats. I wouldn't cast a vote for another Democrat if I had a gun to my head.
I don't know if you're familiar with the terms "Illiberal Left or Regressive Left" but it's very accurate in describing my issues with the Dems, I believe the role of government is to protect the rights of the individual and ensure they have equal status under the law, not to correct every perceived inequality. This is neither possible, nor rational. Among other very serious issues (including a lack of focus and vision, increasing authoritarianism and intrusiveness, and a woeful misunderstanding of the present global moment), I see inflammatory rhetoric, a terrifying assault on free speech and on facts that they find unpalatable, runaway identity politics, and, just recently, a statement that suggests that they see Socialism as the "future of the Democratic party."
Which leads me to....socialism vs. capitalism. Capitalism, along with the Enlightenment, are the greatest things that have ever happened to humans. Capitalism has lifted the majority of humanity out of the most dire, miserable circumstances that we spent most of our existence suffering under. Capitalism is the reason that we have the abundance and affluence that we have in the modern Western world. And you know what? Even if those things weren't true, it is still the most *ethical* and *morally just* system that exists. No economic system is perfect, but capitalism is the best we've stumbled across. And I believe that protecting it is one of the most pressing issues of the day.
I won't put too fine a point on it,but Bernie Sanders confused SO MANY PEOPLE on this issue. And I am not sure if that was done intentionally, or because he simply doesn't understand what he's talking about himself. But he made it seem like the Scandinavian nations have socialism when nothing could be further from the truth! These are CAPITALIST nations! Yes, they have generous social services, but they are very much market economies. Bernie's mischaracterization of the Scandy economies actually prompted the Prime Minister of Denmark to come out and make a statement to remind everyone that Denmark has a capitalist economy!
I find it so, so worrying that people like Ocassio-Cortes (who, btw is just ridiculously ignorant of economics and politics) and Bernie Sanders have confused so many Americans, that they are actually calling themselves "Socialists." I mean, if you just want a generous welfare state that's fine (I would likely disagree with the extent and nature of that) but please for the love of God, don't call yourself a Socialist (or Democratic Socialist) unless you actually want a planned economy and state ownership of industry! I mean, it's right there in their platform!
I don't know if you're familiar with Dave Rubin, but his trajectory has been very similar to my own, and you might find it interesting. He talks a lot about his own journey, but he also has FABULOUS guests on his show whom I never would have come across if I hadn't been so disgusted that I went actively digging for people who felt like I do. He talks about how he "didn't leave the Left, but the Left left him." I agree.
I will never, ever vote for a Republican either, so what do people like us do? I don't know. Pray for viable 3rd party or Independent candidates, but our system is so screwed that it seems extremely unlikely. And if my only choices are Dems or Republicans, I would rather watch the whole thing burn. I used to truly believe the Dems were the lesser of two evils, but no more. They are equally evil. I don't want the future either of these two parties advocate.
Some other excellent speakers who have videos on YouTube are Yaron Brooks, Milton Friedman, Jonathan Haidt, Claire Lehmann, Amy Wax, Heather MacDonald, Ben Shapiro, Stephan Molinaux, Jordan Peterson, Douglass Murray, Brett Weinsten and his wife (both of whom were the victims of an almost comically absurd situation at Evergreen State University where they were long-time professors).
While I definitely don't agree with everything that all of these speakers say, I do find them unfailingly rational, truth-seeking, coherent, respectful and willing to be corrected when they're wrong, which is something I haven't found on the left in a long, long time.
An excellent book is "Factfulness" by Hans Rosling which walks through the pertinent facts and statistics and really detonates the notion that things are terrible and people are suffering like never before under horrific and brutal circumstances. It is super illuminating and may help alleviate some of the anxiety and rage that have been stoked by certain factions. You might also find some of the #WalkAway videos on YouTube interesting.
This is getting super long, but I am happy to answer questions about the specifics of my political and social beliefs.
grapefruit / 4187 posts
I’d love to have voted Democrat, but they just don’t stand for anything anymore! We wasted 8 years with Obama doing nothing for our economy and hurting us socially with all the anti-white race baiting and now we live in a world where you are considered “guilty” of being a bigot, racist and xenophob (whatever that means) if you admit to being republican. Well, party aside I am not sorry for being white and I actually want what’s best for everyone which is a booming economy and stronger borders. And thankfully Kavanaugh getting confirmed today helps prove that we have come a long way in 2 years and can’t be bullied into believing things that aren’t true and only benefit an extremist political party. So yeah lol I voted republican and you’re welcome!
kiwi / 742 posts
I just want to throw in that Fox News is ruining our country. I want a billionaire to buy it, make all of the stars have non-competes and then shut it down. Like 35% of the country just believes FN venom and not real facts.
I’m legit confused w what @Modern Daisy means with 8 years of Obama doing nothing for the economy and causing race-baiting. The economy was in free fall when he took office. The stock market doubled while he was in office
Anyway, I like HB for parenting advice. News makes me crazy enough as is. I don’t need to start making my BP rise on HB.
@ChitownRo: Then though you'd have tons of other media outlets vying for the market, because the demand is there. This can be seen to an extent in all the fake stories the Russians planted on facebook around the election - I think it's a symptom and not a cause (even before Fox there was Limbaugh, etc). Processing information is hard. I think getting better at it (for those of all political persuasions) is fundamental to the survival of democracy, but I'm not sure how this is going to happen. Improving public funding for education would be an important first step...
watermelon / 14466 posts
@ChitownRo: Don’t even waste your breath re: MD, she is who she is and you’re not going to change her mind.
Moderate liberal over here, but I never vote straight party. I prefer to vote based on individual candidate. I’m hoping John Kasich runs againa. We need more leaders who are willing to work together to do what is best for us as a whole, not what is best for either party (and I believe that they are all becoming too polarized and extreme).
@Modern Daisy: I have thought about your comment for a few days now because it quite frankly stings. I believe the race-baiter in the White House is its current occupant. The Republican field was crowded and yet Trump’s voice was the loudest and the one that got the most votes. I’m not going to cast all Republicans as bigots; however, I think the indifference and disregard for others is what got him elected and why we are so visibly polarized today.
grapefruit / 4975 posts
@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: agreed. I won’t say all republicans are bigots, either. However, Trump is openly racist and misogynist. That means all trump voters either also feel that way, or are ambivalent to it/prioritize other things over that. Neither of those things is good.
grapefruit / 4312 posts
I consider myself pretty moderate (and so say the quizzes too) and I dislike all the generalizations people make so I stay away from online politics although I do discuss in person with anyone who brings it up. I know we were polarized way before Trump. I don't attribute that to any politician necessarily. Also I don't think either Obama or Trump really brought people together, as far as race goes. And that's all I'm going to say about that. 🤷♀️
@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: I deleted it. I don’t want to make anyone upset especially here where we come together as struggling parents (or at least I feel that way). But it really is how I feel, for the record, and I won’t be bullied into voting for democrats because of a message that I am a racist because I’m a republican. that couldn’t be more wrong and I’m ashamed for our country that so many people have bought into this rhetoric.
wonderful pomelo / 30590 posts
@Margaret Baddelachs: Not going to lie, I totally did not follow your logic... you're against Democrats because they are using the word "socialism" wrong??
@Modern Daisy: I don't think all Republicans are racist, and there are a few that are willing to speak out against the racist rhetoric coming out of the White House. But I do think if you're willing to vote for a racist, you are condoning racism. And if that just doesn't matter that much to you, then own it. "I'm not racist, but there are much more important things to me than squashing out racism."
I don't think anyone here is anti-capitalism. It's just that our current system, as it is, is BROKEN. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. That's fairly NEW to our country's history. The country's wealth used to be owned by a majority of the middle class. Now it's own by a small percentage of the wealthy. Social Democrats just want to help FIX it. The uber-wealthy used to be taxed at 70%+ on their top income until the 1980s, when their top tax rate was cut down to 50%. Then during the 1990s, it dropped down to 39.6%. That's an insanely low amount for the uber wealthy to pay. And Republicans just keep giving the wealthy more tax cuts, while cutting safety nets for the poor.
grapefruit / 4561 posts
@Adira: Thank you for this, I was thinking the same thing this morning. The guy who watches his friend have sex with a super-drunk woman, who cheers him on and maybe takes a few photos, is not actually a rapist but he doesn’t have a problem with rape. That’s how I feel about anybody who voted for Trump. You might not be a racist, but you don’t have a problem with racism.
apricot / 387 posts
I t typically vote democrat because those issues seem more pressing for the world as a whole, but I'm selfishly sometimes Republican when it comes to the money I've earned.
I can't see myself voting Republican ever at this point though.
@Adira: @RonjaL7: this is what makes me upset is that I’m getting taxed at a high tax bracket but still basically living paycheck to paycheck because we have student loans and it just seems like such a broken cycle. Idk who or what can fix it but I wish the ultra wealthy got taxed way more then they do currently. It makes me crazy when I see presidential taxes or other wealthy people and they have a 14% tax rate because they hvs write off and donations and all these loop holes and the rest of us are out here getting screwed
I am very much an individual who does not speak politics simply because I believe people SHOULD be able to respect each other's differences and agree to disagree when dissimilar ideas come to a head. I have been reading along out of personal curiosity as I, highly respect all of you ladies and wish to know your stances on politics. I have found myself more and more frustrated. I am seeing where this post is dividing people simply based on their personal beliefs. It should not be "You MUST BE a socialist hippy because you voted Democrat" or "You MUST BE A RACIST [through an imaginary associative property of politics] since you voted Republican." Such speak is the basis to continue a further division in these parties socially and economically, further left- and right- leaning sides socially, more radicalism, and more anger through context. (* Side note - I did not vote this last election as I felt that ALL of the candidates were absolutely intolerable and sheisty ... I was ashamed that those individuals were the best America was able to summon to the political table of the Presidency.) As for the race card, while I am not African-American; I am Native American (Mi'kmaq and Algonquin), Spanish, and Native Hawaiian (as well as, French, Irish, Isreali, and Estonian according to Ancestry.com) ... 3 "minorities" in society. I appear "VERY Caucasian" and have been "White Privileged" by people who do not know my parents, heritage, background, or how I grew up. I have found many of these people are super-liberal and are very surprised to find out that individuals (multiethnic and cultural such as myself) are more than meets the eye and are not just a platform to fight for after the fact. That being stated, the right is not off the hook either!!! I digress, please forgive me for my frustration but I loathe seeing politics divide so many like-minded people. As this post has continued, it went from ladies simply stating THEIR OWN views and values to QUESTIONING other's views and the validity of their standpoints. As an outsider, it is beginning to appear a bit like socio-political bickering. I may be wrong, but I just don't believe that was the point of the post when JennLin821 generated this board. Sorry to bore anyone or waste anyone's time with my yammering. I just dislike said confrontation.
persimmon / 1338 posts
@Adira: isn’t the goal of democratic socialists to end capitalism? Democratic Socialists and Social Democrats are two different things.
@Madison43: I don't think so? Democratic socialists mainly believe that the government should provide basic needs to people and help people have an equal chance at achieving success. That's why they call for things like Medicare for all, tuition-free higher education, and basic housing for the poor. I don't think they are against capitalism completely, but I could be wrong.
@Kaohinani: I agree that this thread has gone a little off the rails, it started so well, but after I thanked everone for staying civil, it went a little sideways. I'm considering closing the thread, but i'm hoping I won't have to do that.
@Madison43: @Adira: I took the NYT test to see if I was a 'democratic socialist and it said yes. Then I went to their webpage to get clarification on what their platform was. Here is the link. https://www.dsausa.org/about-us/what-is-democratic-socialism/
Right now in the US the terms democratic socialism and social democrats are used interchangeably. I do not want a planned society/economy, nor do I want to abolish capitalism.
@jennlin821: please don’t close it! I love this thread. As long as people can keep explaining their platforms without being attacked or others trying to change their minds,, this type of dialogue is a good thing!!!
I’m genuinely confused about the DSA platform. Capitalism, by definition, is the private control of industries. According to that link, DSA does not want a centrally planned economy, but wants a democratically controlled one where workers and consumers own industry.
From their website: Democratic socialists do not want to create an all-powerful government bureaucracy. But we do not want big corporate bureaucracies to control our society either. Rather, we believe that social and economic decisions should be made by those whom they most affect.
Today, corporate executives who answer only to themselves and a few wealthy stockholders make basic economic decisions affecting millions of people. Resources are used to make money for capitalists rather than to meet human needs. We believe that the workers and consumers who are affected by economic institutions should own and control them.
This is still anti-capitalism to me, particularly where another part of their site talks about how they won’t be able to elimate private industry “right away” but can take steps to reduce the influence of private corporations.
I don’t disagree that the influence of private corporations is our country is problematic, but I very, very strongly believe in capitalism as an economic model, so any talk about eliminating private industry is, for me, very scary.
@Adira: See, the reason you and many liberals don’t understand where I’m coming from is that I actually completely disagree that our current president is racist. I’ve never heard anything racist come out of his mouth and I don’t agree that border security equals racism. So the argument that I’m condoning racism because I’m “willing to vote for a racist” is completely untrue and not based on facts. It’s a gross misrepresentation of my beliefs and in my opinion a bullying tactic to shame people into supporting the democrats. What about when Obama supported Trayvon Martin by saying “if I had a son he would look like Trayvon” after NBC was found guilty of actually editing the 911 call to make it sound racist? To me that is a clear example of presidential race-baiting. Meanwhile Trump is meeting with Kanye West on Thursday to talk about prison reform. Just saying.
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