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E's pedi said most of her patients don't start showing interest until closer to pre-school. E is 19.5 months and knows his letters (visually and verbally), but not in order...he can do small sequences of 2-4 letters in a row, but that's it. He's starting to learn numbers now...I think he knows two?

I would think by they should know them by preschool or kindergarten, though.

@Weagle: Foam bathtub toys and Super Why here, too!!! Also, Dr. S's ABCs and ABC magnets. Really he's obsessed with letters, lol!

My LO knew her letters super early - like 20 months. She could say her ABCs, could visually recognize all her letters and knew their sounds. She could count to 20 by her 2nd birthday. But I think the range is so big...just like some kids walk earlier, some kids can jump/throw/kick earlier...and some kids know letters/numbers earlier. I think around 3 sounds right to me but I've met some 3 year olds who don't know all of their letters and can't count to 20 consistently. My friend said at her LO's 3 year well check they did an eye exam by recognizing letters so her pediatrician's office assumes most 3 year olds can do letter recognition.

@matador84: my school started a new kindergarten reading program this year that teaches letter sounds before letter names. It is so confusing.

Not sure I'm guessing pre school? My son is 22.5 months and has been able to count to 10 since about 21 months and can sing his abcs but doesn't recognize numbers or letters visually (he knows it's a number or a letter but will say 2 for 10 and C for M, etc)

Kindergarten is when they really emphasize them. In preschool they didn't do a ton with them...more learning sight words.

I had to tutor my little cousin years ago because his Pre-K teacher was annoyed that he did not know all of his alphabets yet after a few weeks of school. He was 4 years old at the time. It turned out that he did know all of his letters and numbers but was just shy. It was a half day program so it was hard on the teacher also. He eventually opened up to her and did really well. He was well prepared for kindergarten and was able to sound out words to read and do simple math. They had homework too. It seemed like a lot for pre-K but he did fine. So I would guess 3 if it was expected of them to know that already in pre-K?? Not sure though.

@Sandy: At our 3-year well check, they did the eye exam with shapes! I would have thought they would have at least let her try the letters (she knows them!). Surprising how much expectations can vary.

I agree that it varies. I think i read somewhere that it's not necessarily a milestone, and more to do with how good the child's memory is.

DD is 23 months and is very confident with her ABCs (verbally/visually). She can count to 14 (though she skips 1) but only recognizes a few numbers visually since we haven't really exposed her to it. I have a friend whose daughter is a few months older and doesn't yet know her alphabet/numbers but is very articulate.

I think 3 is a reasonable age, especially if they attend preschool/daycare since that's usually when they start teaching the alphabet/numbers. We only taught LO at an early age because she showed interest in learning it.

@Mrs. Bee: Way to go Olive and yay for apps! Do you remember what app she used to learn her letters?

My 30 month old knows the sounds for several letters and is really interested in pointing them out. She's deeply interested in letters and reading lately. She has started to ask us to point to a word while we read it, so she's clearly trying to figure it all out. It's so interesting to see.

I don't believe in pushing academics this early, so I'm just following her lead. We don't sit around singing the alphabet song, but an app that teaches letter sounds might be a hit.

@Kimberlybee: it was endless alphabet! we've reviewed it before on the blog. now she's playing endless reader!

Wow. My 23-month old doesn't know her letters OR numbers. I didn't realiZe that so many learned them at such a young age.

My son didn't know his alphabet before age 2, but he did know some numbers. He actually learned his numbers quite early, but I am not sure why, to be honest. I don't recall showing him any numbers or explaining what they were for. He's 3 now, and he can count on his fingers and he understands the abstract concept, which surprised me. He likes to put stickers on his fingers and the other night he was counting down, 3 more left, 2 more left, 1 more. It's a concept I didn't realize he knew.

@Mrs. Jacks: how did you teach her to read? I can see Chloe reading early but don't have a clue where to start with teaching her.

We didn't really practice shapes, colors or numbers very much before she started preschool last fall. We'd count objects, especially when we'd build towers together, but I don't think it really registered.

Now she's 2.5 and since before Xmas, she can count to 13 and more recently, knows her shapes and most of the alphabet. I nearly fell over when we took a walk & she said "mama, OCTAGON!!" at the end of our street (stop sign)!!

@Mrs. Jump Rope: my LO is 28 months and can read most of the BOB books in the first boxed set. She started by learning all her letters and the sound that each letter makes. There is an old Leapfrog DVD called The Letter Factory (they have a new one that I didn't like as much) that is like 20 minutes and after watching it a few times she completely learned her phonics. They make it into a song and each letter is animated (so the A gets frightened and says "ahhhh!" She has the Hape Letter Puzzle and she loved to play with all the letters and make their sounds. We started grouping three letters at a time - F-U-N and she would sound it out and combine the sounds then replace the F with an S and it's S-U-N, then replace S with a B and it's B-U-N, etc. There is a Leapfrog DVD called the Talking Words Factory and they go to a factory where the letters get combined into simple words (sad, mad, bad, cat, sat, fat, etc). She hardly watches TV but we would let her watch these DVDs around the time she was 2 and she got it so quick and would want to play letters and words all the time. She has the Endless Alphabet and Endless Reader apps that Mes.Bee mentioned and she has apps for sight words - which the BOB books also work on - the, is, etc. I think a lot lf it is exposure and making it fun and like a game for them of they're showing interest. Some kids are really into building and I'm sure that's some type of spatial and physical skill - my LO has no real interest in bulding but she freaking loves letters and words. It also helps that she has a ton of alphabet books

@sandy: I agree that it needs to be based on interest, for sure. Like your LO, mine loves letters and numbers. She could spend a lot of her inside playtime just sorting through number/letter games and toys. But she won't give a block a second glance. A ton of her friends are opposite, but I have no doubt they'll gain interest in it at some point!

My son just turned two and doesn't really know any letters and can say 1-2-3 but I don't think he knows what it means. We aren't pushing anything. I sing the alphabet and count things to him but he hasn't shown interest in doing it himself. We just had his 2 year check up and the pediatrician didn't bring it up. I'm not worried at all. I know every kid is different and I won't be surprised if he just busts out singing the ABC's one day.

I think this thread has gotten a little bit away from the original question. I think by around pre-K they should have some letters down and probably 1-20 in terms of numbers (just being able to recite them, not necessarily to count objects that high). By the time they enter Kindergarten or shortly thereafter I'd assume they would have the whole alphabet and sounds and be able to count up to around 20 objects. Here is some support for these assumptions: http://www.pbs.org/parents/childdevelopmenttracker/five/literacy.html

As for the anecdotes, I'll add mine in case anyone reading this thread is feeling stressed: My child is 3 and not even close to reading on his own. I think he has about 2/3 of the alphabet and letter sounds down, but he mixes those up occasionally. I think his accuracy might be lower if he had only uppercase or only lowercase letters to work with. His ability to count objects is good (I know he can get to six, because he can count the dots on a die reliably) and he recognizes single-digit numbers. Counting to 20 out loud requires some prompting. However, I think his comprehension and recall of texts and his vocabulary are pretty stellar because we read to him regularly and include some books that are quite advanced.

@Rainbow Sprinkles: @irene: Don't stress! Read Mrs. Cowgirl's extremely thoughtful post (linked below), take a deep cleansing breath (or have a glass of wine!), and read a book to your child.

http://www.hellobee.com/2013/10/31/so-how-are-you-teaching-him-to-read/

Around pre-k is when most kids should master basic letters and numbers (so between 4 and 5). My reasoning behind that is from my friends kids in kindergarten who are considered failing kindergarten because they don't know their letters and have to read in kindergarten.

My situation is that my son is almost three and can easily count to twenty and has one to one understanding. He can also read the numbers 1 -10 (new trick we just found). He can mostly sing his abc song BUT has a speech delay which has drastically reduced his ability to work in that area. He isn't interested because he struggles with it. He recognizes that letters are letters and they have meaning but not which letter.