The world seems so tumultuous these days! I will admit sometimes I do consider limiting our family size because of all the upheaval.
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No - the world was, has and will always be messed up! I think, in many ways, we live in a Better world our parents and grandparents lived in!
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We've actually considered moving to another country over the crap that's going on in the US right now. The hurdle is figuring out how to find jobs while in another country! I have family in Sweden and that's a top consideration for us.
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Specifically, my main concerns are 1. I don't want to support my kids into adulthood and I don't know what the job market will be like in 20 years and 2. I have two boys and I am terrified that they would get drafted into a conflict.
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@regberadaisy: I agree. The grass is not always greener. The country I live in came thisclose to electing a far right president recently.
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@regberadaisy: we certainly do but it seems like we really take it for granted that we can't get back there. Plus I believe the 40 hour workweek is a relic and I worry my future kids won't be able to be financially independent. I have three siblings in college with no real career track. It scares me because we are not willing to support kids into adulthood.
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My parents had the same concerns when my sister and I were born in the late 70s and early 80s. Each generation faces crisis. So no. Even if the economy were perfect with a popular president and world peace there is no guarantee it would stay that way.
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I think about this all the time. Not just political and social issues, but also environmental issues weigh heavily on me. Ultimately, we are going to have one more child but we've gone back and forth on it (our daughter is 4 so there will be a large age gap).
It's hard to have to explain things in the world to your kids. I think my mom just didn't tell us about stuff -- but having to talk to your kid about the KKK and Donald Trump is really hard.
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Absolutely not. I agree with those above - there are always scary times and things that pop up and it has been that way throughout history. Life is uncertain.
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I think I would, especially if I lived in a war ravaged country.
I visited a country that was particularly torn apart by civil war and I distinctly remember thinking that no matter of UN Peacekeeping troops would make me feel safe and I would not bring a child into that world in that situation.
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@coopsmama: but why bring new life into it? Speaking for myself only, I was always on board for two, because I wanted tp experience parenting and wanted my kids to have each other as support. But when I consider bringing more children into the world I find my mind drifting to the state of the world. As I mentioned in a PP, I have three college aged siblings and worry for them constantly as they traverse this hazardous landscape. My fear for them probably impacts my perspective a lot.
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@youboots: yes environmental issues scare me too but I didn't mention it because I didn't want to appear too tin foil hat
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My answer is no, unless we ended up in a 2nd Great Depression where my family is personally affected.
I'm not going to not have kids because something bad 'could' happen. Something bad could happen regardless of social and political circumstances. -
Concerns about overpopulation are a (small) part of why we're only planning to have one child.
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Yeah, I think about this a lot. Not to go far for an example, my home country, which I thought until recently is quite as civilized as the US, has a civil war going on. It just makes me wonder this kind of mass insanity could happen here in the States... It went from a very ordinary place to live to a war zone in weeks. I can't imagine not bringing my kids into the world because of something that *may* happen, but I do plan to teach them survival skills and try to get them to move somewhere that's less messed up. Just in case
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@Mama Bird: I think it is weird how people assume the US is stable and then use that assumption to behave in ways that seem to incite instability!
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My family planning was in part totally personal, but in part due to concerns about financial stuff, i.e. our retirement, their college, etc. I'm not sure if that counts as political or social but I think if our country had things like paid maternity leave, subsidized early childcare, and subsidized college, our concerns would be alot different and I might be more inclined to have more kids.
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: well then I've got on a tinfoil hat with you
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@catlady: yes definitely. Watching my siblings deal with the college education bubble/crisis has made me reconsider the "path" toward economic stability, etc. I don't know if I want my husband to have to work hard enough to afford retirement and my kids long launch period (more people live with parents than with spouses for the first time in over 100 years I believe I read).
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I think most people just adapt. If I got unexpectedly pregnant, I wouldn't abort because of political or social issues. Even for financial reason, I think I would still adapt. ETA: Even though I had to do IVF, I'm still not chancing the risk of a pregnancy after having twins. So there will be no way I will have an unplanned pregnancy.
The only thing at the moment that I'm concerned about is gun control. I'm not going to abort a future pregnancy because of gun control. I think it's something that will be on my mind when and if my babies grow up around guns. I think the only thing I can do is hope that we are not affected by gun violence. I'm still on the fence about how to properly educate my children about guns so they know the dangers of it and know it's not a toy.
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: Well, my outlook on this is really skewed by my religious perspective. So my answers probably won't be reassuring to you.
But my parents could have easily made the decision not to have had kids (or more kids) because of the possibility of a negative social or political climate and they didn't and I personally am grateful for that.
Honestly - everyone just needs to make decisions about family planning that THEY feel comfortable with! This is not an area to keep up with the Jones' in hehe....so if you don't feel comfortable because of the current political and social environment, then best to just have your one.
You don't want to doubt yourself over such a major decision.
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The world is so hostile and while I am concerned for my LO that is already here I want another just so he has someone else to navigate this crazy world with.
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@coopsmama: lol I have two! If we have any more I am comfortable labeling that as a purely selfish decision
I used to be a Christian so I have experience with perspective but have fallen away from the faith in the past three or so years.
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@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: that is exactly the perspective I took when I had my second but for 3 I feel differently.
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Yes, I consider the environment I'm bringing my children in to to be an important factor in family planning. But I seem to be way on the opposite side of this than the majority of HB. Most people here tend to have the attitude of "I'll just have as many kids as I want/will make me happy and 'everything will work itself out'". I'm a big time planner and that's just not the way I operate, because things DON'T work out, all the time.
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: oh your two, sorry!
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It is a tumultuous time, for sure. We have seriously thought about leaving the US in the next few years (probably not permanently), and while that doesn't necessarily affect our decisions on family size, we are of the mind that perhaps just having one LO is best in the current state of the world. If we have more, we certainly wouldn't have more than 2 kids. Our world can't take exponential growth. Unfortunately, plenty of poor & uneducated people or entire countries do not also share that belief.
Eta: btw, let me clarify that I certainly am not equating having more than 2 children with being uneducated. If our world could support it, I'd cheer for more educated & kind, thoughtful, responsible people trying to balance things out.
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My husband says things along this line sometimes, he's pretty environmentally conscious and we're both scared by some current events. My response is that I hope our kids will be smart, kind and tolerant people and the world needs more people like that. That said, when my mind does wander and I think it could be the end of the world (if we have nuclear warfare in the coming years), the thought does cross my mind to not bring another child into the world. I just try to rely on my faith but that doesn't mean I don't have doubts.
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@Truth Bombs: I'm a planner, too, and I will not have an unplanned pregnancy. After twins and IVF, I need to make sure I'm ready to have more kids (which I'm still not sure if I'm done or not.) At this moment, I am not. I am happy with the kids I have now.
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@coopsmama: well typically I wouldn't be so particular but going from 1 to 2 feels different from 2 to 3! I mean even on a basic level, for those who are worried about population growth for example, 2 just replaces you but 3 grows the population. I wanted 2 so that my kids would have help in dealing with me in my old age, but expecting three in this current economic system to be totally self sustaining almost feels unrealistic!
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Yes, it definitely plays a role.
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The current economic climate had a lot to do with our family planning decisions.. I am concerned that my kids will need a lot of help with college and potentially after that as well. We are stopping at 2 kids because I want to make sure that we will be able to save money for their education and also make sure that we can save for our old age.
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@mrsjazz: even just the bee situation is enough to send me into a panic about what my kids will face in terms of the environment when they are older!
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No, that will not be a factor for me.
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No, not really and that's mostly due to my faith.
ETA: I would not have another child if I didn't think we could provide for another child or if I felt we were in imminent danger. We're 2 and through anyways.
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I go the other way, all this stuff weighs in favor of having a 2nd for me. The world is scary and I don't want my daughter to be alone when we're gone. I'm not even close to my brother but knowing he's there is comforting to me and makes me feel more safe in the world. As does the fact that I have 25 cousins and 7 aunts/uncles that I keep in contact with and know I could rely on if needed (just this week I called an aunt to go pick my husband up when he got stranded in the city she lives in). My daughter has 1 cousin and 3 aunts/uncles. She MIGHT have a couple more cousins but it isn't likely she'll have more than 1-2 more. I hate that she won't have more family her age and it really makes me want to give her a sibling.
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I had a really scary experience this winter where I was holding lo in a crowded subway station and there was a stampede (false alarm, people I guess thought someone had a bomb or gun) and we got pushed over onto a stairway and practically trampled over. It was terrifying, and coincidentally just a few weeks after I had a miscarriage. I definitely had thoughts about not wanting a second after that-- this world is so incredibly scary. It really hurt my soul to see how little concern people have for those around them that they would literally run over people, especially children, who had fallen.
That said, I am pregnant now again, so it didn't deter me in the end. It just really brought home to me how scary it is that living with fear like this is the new normal
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@Mae: I have similar feelings to you, my children are going to max out at three cousins which makes me really sad and part of the reason I'd like to have a big family.
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We definitely considered politics in deciding where to have our family.
In 2009 we were both out of work and were deciding where to settle. The social policies of Canada were the tipping point. We knew kids were in our near future and living in a country that supports families with healthcare and parental leave was a priority. -
@mrsjazz: I do too, and I don't have kids yet. But the political and environmental issues weigh heavily on my mind at times. I worry about our finite resources, and here I am, wanting to bring more humans into the world.
Like others, I think about how the way we do work is changing. Despite my own liberal arts background, I would not want my kid to get a degree in that. Companies have just not caught up with how work has changed. E.g. The 40 hour, butt-in-a-chair mentality.
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