https://boards.hellobee.com/ Pregnancy, Baby and Parenting blog, by Hellobee en Thu, 23 Apr 2026 14:13:12 +0000 https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare/page/2#post-1566644 Mon, 14 Apr 2014 06:31:29 +0000 looch 1566644@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I had to reread the article this morning...I think there are a few points worth noting. One is that the article specfically talks about infants in the opening line, which to me, means children from 3 months to about 12 months. Then you've got toddlers from 1- 3 years 8 months and beginning usually at age 3 years 9 months, preschool. If the author's point is simply to say that the teachers do not want to work more, or they do not support hiring more teachers to fill the gaps, then by default, I have no interest in the article. </p> <p>Dr. Montessori did the vast majority of her groundbreaking work, where? At the Casa dei Bambini, in a low income district in Rome, where parents were often both working out of the home. Is it a coincidence that the skills taught there were personal cleanliness and keeping house? She didn't come up with her method because she had to make a decision between a play kitchen and a real kitchen, she had children that needed to learn to do the tasks that were normally done by their parents. Do not misunderstand me, I am a huge supporter of the method, but many don't understand the orgins and I think it's important to note in this discussion.</p> <p>Fast forward to today....in the United States the majority of the schools are operating on an antiquated farming model. If we were to really open our eyes and prepare our children to compete on the global level, we wouldn't be bickering about what the kindergarten cut off is, we'd be looking at year round schools on a schedule that accomodates both working and stay at home parents.</p> <p>I also don't believe that early exposure to reading/writing and math produces better results in the long term. Again, we need to look at what other countries are doing. Why is it that kids in Europe score higher than American kids, given that they don't begin learning to read until age 7 in some instances? </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare/page/2#post-1565907 Sun, 13 Apr 2014 15:04:07 +0000 Freckles 1565907@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@kemma: I'm curious as to what you think about children who are under the care of grandparents for the same amount of time? </p> <p>@honeybear: I think i have an issue with the comment that money should be spent towards teaching parents how to be better parents. Who decides what it means to be better parents? The government? The teachers union? </p> <p>I actually think too little money goes into early childhood education (just look at how poorly paid a lot of the teachers are), and i wish more money went into ensuring that parents can have access to high quality daycare centres that don't cost an arm and a leg. I also think it's BS that just because daycare centres are open longer that it means children are spending all that extra time in lessons. Daycares provide children with a lot more free play time than people think, especially in ones that focus on learn through play. My DD certainly did not learn her alphabets/numbers from daycare, and learned from DH and me. Every parent has a choice - not all daycares are academic focused and they will know which environment will be best suited for their child. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare/page/2#post-1565782 Sun, 13 Apr 2014 13:22:04 +0000 Mrs. Sketchbook 1565782@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Grace: it's cool...I think we agree....I was just trying to reframe my comments about history and how childhood is a relatively new concept. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565780 Sun, 13 Apr 2014 13:19:59 +0000 Grace 1565780@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Sketchbook: Wasn't my intent to polarize ot even compare SAH and WOH parents. Only that I think having kids in school/daycare for their entire wake time isn't a great idea. I don't think there's anything wrong with having kids in daycare and then coming home to spend 2 hours with their family. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565758 Sun, 13 Apr 2014 12:57:41 +0000 Mrs. Sketchbook 1565758@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@yoursilverlining: I think it is important to point out that the article was specifically talking about preschool, which is a totally different beast from daycare, or after school care. I can understand why teachers would bristle at the idea of having to provided a preschool-like environment from morning to end of day. I mean, if that were appropriate, then why not just start kindergarten at three years old, and have it until six in the evening! We don't even do that with kindergarten now. But that is the proposal that the person in this article was responding to. I don't think it was a message for working parents per se. I mean, this was basically directed at a group of parents demanding before-school care and after-school care on the same level as preschool and the teachers saying, we can't provide that level of intensive care for that long, and frankly it wouldn't be good for them. And considering that our current school system doesn't even provide that amount of organized care, well....I can see what they are saying. </p> <p>@Grace: I guess what I meant was, we are fighting over details that weren't even a concept just a few generations ago. I mean, as an SAHM, I definitely want to provide work/life balance for my family...otherwise I wouldn't be doing this! But I do agree that if we had better legislation in place, I might have been able to do that without having to make the sacrifice of not working. So yeah, there is a lot of work left, but at the same time we don't need to be so polarized with the SAH vs. WOH that we focus more on in-fighting than on doing things that help everyone (even the childfree!). </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565653 Sun, 13 Apr 2014 10:48:42 +0000 junebugmama 1565653@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I do believe that there is great benefit to the majority of children, having a parent at home within the first few years. It's easier to establish things like breastfeeding for instance, no parental guilt as far as missing out on "firsts", and the benefit of knowing that your child is being properly cared for during time when they are unable to communicate if something negative is happening to them. </p> <p>However, it certainly adds financial stress to most families and marriages. I think children are better off in homes with happy, healthy relationships, if that means having to select someone else to care for your child, then so be it. I also believe that some people just aren't meant to stay home, I know for myself it certainly can feel isolating at times, and if depression was an ongoing concern for me mentally, it wouldn't be more beneficial for me to stay home than for our children to have a loving nanny caring for them. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565608 Sun, 13 Apr 2014 10:24:15 +0000 Grace 1565608@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@daniellemybelle: It might be a new notion, but that doesn't mean it's not desirable. Women having the vote, and child labour laws are also new notions. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565561 Sun, 13 Apr 2014 09:31:45 +0000 daniellemybelle 1565561@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@yoursilverlining: I get you. That's just not how it came off. I think both sides shouldn't generalize or jump to the worst conclusion. </p> <p>And the mommy wars comment was not aimed at you specifically but this thread.</p> <p>@Grace: Totally. American workaholic culture kind of sucks. But I am again reminded of Mrs. Sketchbook's excellent point - "quality time" is a new notion. Most parents had to work extremely hard from dawn until dusk for generations - it was just the very upper class that didn't, and they had other people help raise their kids too! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565549 Sun, 13 Apr 2014 09:23:34 +0000 yoursilverlining 1565549@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@daniellemybelle: it wasn't a generalization; it was a reaction to this article, and most others posted (most often by SAHM) that use language like "negative" "institutionalized" to describe all daycare; as though the daycare experience is the same across the board, and always worse than spending time with parents. There is also a range of SAHP, some of which doesn't provide any social activity outside of running errands, and some of which doesn't stack up against a good daycare. That was the point. Though HB is definitely not safe from the mommy wars, this wasn't one. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565513 Sun, 13 Apr 2014 08:26:32 +0000 Grace 1565513@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@daniellemybelle: Lol - I think I'm one of the parents who isn't cut out to be a stay at home mom. But there's a happy medium between staying home with your kid and putting them in daycare 12 hours a day because you have a high pressured job that requires overtime every day. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565506 Sun, 13 Apr 2014 08:07:42 +0000 daniellemybelle 1565506@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Sketchbook: That is a great point!</p> <p>(sorry about all the piecemeal replies... on my phone &amp; easier this way) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565499 Sun, 13 Apr 2014 08:04:38 +0000 daniellemybelle 1565499@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@yoursilverlining: That was overly harsh. I certainly don't think that about working parents! But at the same time I work very hard to provide my daughter with stimulation, education, attention, etc at just 5 months old while SAH... I hate the generalization that SAHMs just run errands with their kids.</p> <p>I thought HB had been pretty safe from the mommy wars thus far... </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565491 Sun, 13 Apr 2014 07:56:56 +0000 daniellemybelle 1565491@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@mrbee: @Grace: I also disagree that staying home with parents is always better, and this comes from a current SAHM! I know some parents who are just not cut out to be at home all day &amp; their kids benefit from being in childcare. Conversely, I know a few people with mental issues etc &amp; I wish they would put their kids in daycare or something so they can get the proper stimulation &amp; affection they need. For whatever reason it's not always true that parents are the best caregivers/teachers for their kids. I'm glad I am SAH right now but I am going back to work part-time soon &amp; I am excited for the new experiences LO will have. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565372 Sun, 13 Apr 2014 00:10:26 +0000 googly-eyes 1565372@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I don't think this is an attack on working parents at all. The work they do at their job is valuable, and the work they do at home is valuable, and it would be great if their work-life balance could be easier.</p> <p>@Zbug: Thank you, so true! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565358 Sat, 12 Apr 2014 23:28:58 +0000 Mrs. Sketchbook 1565358@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@honeybear: +1 for sure. I definitely don't think there is a winner in the daycare vs. at- home fight, but I definitely agree that any discussion about better work/balance is valuable! And I think it is powerful that a teachers union would come out with this, because that is the kind of thing that can bring about change! At least in aggregate over years.</p> <p>FWIW, I think there is something to this institutionalized thing... Just because aside from necessary childcare, parents are also pressured into starting preschool early, do enrichment classes on the side, etc. And I think that's what they are saying-- all-day preschool is different from daycare, because it is a lot more structured. And that isn't necessarily good for kids who are so young. But that is a different debate from SAH vs WOH.</p> <p>Personally I went to daycare after kindergarten and it was a lot more free-range. I think that is more sustainable than all-day preschool for young children. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565246 Sat, 12 Apr 2014 21:01:39 +0000 Zbug 1565246@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I find the daycare debate pretty sad. One side says kids are better off at home being raised by parents who can give them love and one on one attention. The other side then talks about how much their child's development and socialization skills have improved since starting daycare and how daycare is better for kids. Why are we trying to make people feel guilty for how they are raising their children? Ultimately, aren't we all just trying to do the best we can for our families? There are amazing kids who went to daycare. There are amazing kids raised by SAHPs.</p> <p>Eta - and I realize that this post was specifically about an article, but it just always seems to end in the same old debate. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565172 Sat, 12 Apr 2014 20:10:39 +0000 honeybear 1565172@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I didn't see a thesis in this article. The teachers' union leader was explaining a motion for debate at an upcoming conference. The motion was:</p> <p>"the political emphasis on childcare marginalised the contribution of parents and the importance of family life."</p> <p>I find that to be a worthwhile topic of debate for such an institution, and not an indictment of working parents. The suggestion, as I understand it, is that perhaps instead of throwing taxpayer money into nursery and preschool, the government should focus on helping parents be better parents. I think it is a refreshing counterpoint to the thesis behind ideas like the one the government seems to be promoting, which can only be read harshly: Many parents are unfit to give their children the tools they need, so the sooner we can put their children in professional care, the better.</p> <p>The article notes that the teachers' union (which may have ulterior motives as suggested above, but could also reasonably be expected to look out for the best interests of the chief consumers of their professional services: children) chose this topic for debate:</p> <p>"just days after Sir Michael Wilshaw, the head of Ofsted, said schools were best placed to teach children aged two or three the basics of literacy and numeracy, giving them a solid foundation for full-time education."</p> <p>If anyone in this article comes across as denigrating parents, I'd say it's Sir Wilshaw. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565165 Sat, 12 Apr 2014 20:03:20 +0000 Smurfette 1565165@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@MamaMoose: Agree with you! R is at school 7-430 every day but she is so bonded with us. I mean we are her parents. She loves her teachers but they don't compare to us.<br /> @lawbee11: :heart: </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565139 Sat, 12 Apr 2014 19:47:11 +0000 Mrs. Sketchbook 1565139@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I think this debate is totally ahistorical. In the past, rich people (I'm talking Downton level) had governesses that provided total care. Poor people probably either had a millions kids and therefore their attention was split, or had family watch kids while they worked--extended family caregiving. Or the kids watched themselves at a younger age (see 'Babies'). Or heck, the kids worked in a factory or on the farm. The idea that there was ever a time when children spent all this perfect quality time with their parents is a total fiction created by baby boomers. I say this as a SAHM who is, frankly, worried about pushing my kid into a controlled environment too early (not daycare, but I do get concerned with the assumption/pressure surrounding preschool). But I also try to recognize that we don't have a "crisis" on our hands....I feel like parents are more hands-on than ever before, especially dads! A century ago the idea of childhood didn't even exist! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565116 Sat, 12 Apr 2014 19:32:47 +0000 blackbird 1565116@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@lawbee11, :heart: I know many in that situation and they would for sure echo that you don't have to be next to them 24/7 to be a good or involved parent. It's just life sometimes. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565112 Sat, 12 Apr 2014 19:31:00 +0000 sunny 1565112@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>We started our LO in daycare in January at 17 months and we have noticed that her development has really taken off. Being around other kids has really helped her. I kind of feel bad that I kept her at home so long. I don't feel any less bonded to her now that she is in daycare and I feel that it has been so beneficial to her. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565061 Sat, 12 Apr 2014 18:53:35 +0000 lawbee11 1565061@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Search "military coming home videos" in YouTube and watch the thousands of videos of parents being reunited with their children. These are moms and dads that go months without seeing their children. If you watch those videos and don't see what a strong bond they have in spite of that then you're blind. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565054 Sat, 12 Apr 2014 18:37:23 +0000 yoursilverlining 1565054@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Kemma: everything you to with an infant is educational - every experience builds and expands their horizon. Playing with blocks is educational, painting and mixing colors and finding out that if you mix two colors together you get a new color is education. I don't really understand the need for "education" to be a thing isolated from everything else, because it isn't. When you don't know anything yet and are introduced to new things and get to explore them - that's education.</p> <p>As for this comment: "I believe there was a study done in NZ that determined that GOOD daycare did not have a detrimental effect on children." I'm not sure what that was suppose to add, except to reinforce my comment about making working parents feel like crap. Is "not detrimental" suppose to be the best positive we can hope for for our children in daycare? </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565050 Sat, 12 Apr 2014 18:26:11 +0000 Kemma 1565050@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@yoursilverlining: I don't think anybody here thinks that WAHP's don't care or are crap parents, I also don't think your last comment adds anything to the discussion at hand. </p> <p>In response to your earlier question though, exactly how much socialisation and education does an infant need? I can only speak for my child, but she copes best when she spends every other day at home rather than out and about being overstimulated.</p> <p>Not every SAHP is a wonderful parent but the same goes with daycare providers. I believe there was a study done in NZ that determined that GOOD daycare did not have a detrimental effect on children.</p> <p>@wonderstruck: I don't think anyone thing or action is going to be a magic bullet but I think it starts with better parental leave policies and entitlements, a greater emphasis on the value and importance of families, and a change in the economy so that wages are liveable (I really think that a person who works full time shouldn't be living in poverty). </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565048 Sat, 12 Apr 2014 18:23:00 +0000 blackbird 1565048@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>What a great article, if you want to be made to feel bad for putting food on your family's table </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565046 Sat, 12 Apr 2014 18:17:53 +0000 wonderstruck 1565046@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@yoursilverlining: Agreed. Honestly, sometimes I feel guilty for being a SAHM and like my LO would benefit from being in daycare at least part of the time. I wish he got more social interaction and encouragement from spending time around more babies his age, it's tough to find opportunities for that sort of thing where we live until they're a bit older. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1565028 Sat, 12 Apr 2014 17:44:33 +0000 yoursilverlining 1565028@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I would love to see a "study" that compares truly engaged daycares vs. SAHP where an outing to Target is the highest level of social interaction a child receives all day. Oh wait, I almost forget: all time spent with parents is positive and full of brain-developing and experience-expanding opportunities while WOHP are crap parents who don't care enough not to just dump their kids off with others. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1564972 Sat, 12 Apr 2014 16:47:55 +0000 wonderstruck 1564972@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Kemma: So, what exactly do you propose we as a society do about that? Most families simply cannot afford to not have both parents work. Pointing out a problem and being critical with zero solutions, as this study has done, just seems unhelpful. I guess that's pretty much my thought about the article - yeah, it would be great if kids weren't spending like 60+ hours a week at daycare, although I do feel babies and toddlers can certainly benefit from their time there, but making parents feel guilty about something they just don't have the power to fix isn't going to change anything. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1564961 Sat, 12 Apr 2014 16:23:58 +0000 Kemma 1564961@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@looch: I believe that we are raising a generation of babies and toddlers who have spent more of their waking hours in the presence of a paid caregiver than their own parents and I don't believe that that is necessarily a good thing.</p> <p>I do believe that early childhood education is critical as children get older but I struggle to see the benefits for an infant.</p> <p>Unfortunately it can be exceptionally difficult to engage in critical discussion around these sorts of issues because we're all trying to do the best for our children but sometimes we do have to look beyond our own circumstances (I make this is a generalised statement not specific to HB). </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/an-interesting-article-on-childcare#post-1564774 Sat, 12 Apr 2014 12:29:13 +0000 looch 1564774@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Kemma: what are your thoughts on this article? </p>