https://boards.hellobee.com/ Pregnancy, Baby and Parenting blog, by Hellobee en Mon, 25 May 2026 22:35:47 +0000 https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1987286 Tue, 16 Dec 2014 17:06:46 +0000 meganmp 1987286@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs.KMM: From the CCSS, 4th grade: Find whole number quotients and remainders with up to four digit dividends and one digit divisors, using strategies based on place value, the properties of operations and/or the relationship between multiplication and division. Illustrate and explain the calculation by using equations, rectangular arrays, and/or area models (4.NBT.B.6)</p> <p>In other words, solve a division problem using place value as your guide, and then show how you did it in a way that makes sense. No where in the CCSS does it say you have to use some funky thing- well, at least in the upper elementary grades. I haven't explored the standards for the little guys too deeply, so primary teachers can correct me if I'm wrong. In 4th grade, for example, it wants them to do the standard algorithm, which I think most people who are anti "new math" would agree with. </p> <p>.@erinpye: Where kids get it wrong is when they don't justify their answers. Yeah, we don't need 12 year olds to prove to us that 4+6=10 by drawing out little dots, but they do need to include the fact that they solved 4+6=10 as opposed to just writing 10 on their papers.</p> <p>I wish I could have all of those opposed to different methods of solving math problems come in to my class to see what these kiddos are capable of- it's fantastic to see the change in abilities that has occurred over the last 10 years, despite what the test scores show. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1987242 Tue, 16 Dec 2014 16:50:30 +0000 Mrs. Lion 1987242@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs.KMM: I am not familiar with this type of testing, so I can't speak to that specifically. I can see why that would be frustrating, but I can also see that in certain situations it would be necessary. I have heard awful things about the testing though, so I would lean more toward frustrating :(</p> <p>@erinpye: I have to completely disagree...I have never met a child who could do complicated math problems in their head and yet couldn't explain how they arrived at the answer. This kind of "doing it in my head" problem solving is extremely problematic in the early years, because often math problems up until 4th grade or so CAN be done in a student's head (some students anyway). The problem is more one of habit. These students get overly confident in their ability to do problems "in their head" and refuse to start showing work and explaining their answers as they enter middle school, and at that point they no longer CAN just solve them in their heads. We aren't talking about adults here...we are talking about kids, who also need to learn healthy learning habits at a younger age that will serve them as they get older. </p> <p>As far as the new methods go, we intentionally teach these BEFORE teaching the "old" methods, because these strategies encourage kids to understand how the numbers work. Later, once students show understanding, we teach the algorithm, usually in the following grade level. So students really shouldn't even be exposed to the "shortcut" methods until they have a very firm understanding of the math behind it, at which time explaining the more tedious methods should really not be difficult. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1987188 Tue, 16 Dec 2014 16:19:50 +0000 erinpye 1987188@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Lion: I feel that that's problematic. It's frustrating and tedious to write out something, a specific way, when it seems obvious, and the new math way doesn't seem so, to people who think in different ways. How is that fair? Who's to say that a specific kind of written work, or any at all, shows a deep understanding? Plenty of people can do extremely complex problems in their heads, and they don't lack deep understanding. This is saying "you must prove to me my way, that you understand it my way." </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1987172 Tue, 16 Dec 2014 16:09:00 +0000 Mrs.KMM 1987172@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Lion: My elementary school teacher friend says that they still teach them multiple methods but that when it comes to the testing, they have to show the "common core method" work or they get marked wrong. Even if they show other perfectly correct work and have the right answer. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1987124 Tue, 16 Dec 2014 15:44:44 +0000 Mrs. Lion 1987124@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@erinpye: I guess that is true, but not because they aren't doing "new math". The new methods aren't really new. They are just representations of the math that show a deeper understanding of how the numbers work, which is the goal. Eventually if a child wants to choose a shortcut method that is fine, because they would have already built a solid understanding. But the whole "I did it in my head" explanation is exactly what we are trying to get away from. I want ny students to be able to articulate why their solution is correct and how they got there mathematically. The shortcuts don't teach the reasoning, but the new strategies do. Do I want 4th graders using the "new" first grade subtracting strategies? No, of course not. But I would like for them to be able to tell me why "borrowing" works, which is something that most kids who only learn the algorithm can't do. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1987110 Tue, 16 Dec 2014 15:38:11 +0000 blackbird 1987110@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>You have to show your work in upper level math, too, even if you can do some of it in your head. And are often instructed to utilize certain methods. I don't think it's weird that it's trickling down to the more basic coursework. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1987093 Tue, 16 Dec 2014 15:31:44 +0000 erinpye 1987093@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Lion: what @Mrs.KMM said, and what I've also heard from others, is work must be shown utilizing the new math processes. So what happens to the kid who does math in her head, or prefers the "old" way, or another way entirely? From what I've heard, those kids get marked incorrect, even if the answer is correct, if they can't show the new math process. I'm not an expert, maybe this isn't the case at all? </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1987068 Tue, 16 Dec 2014 15:20:37 +0000 Mrs. Lion 1987068@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@erinpye: @Mrs.KMM: My understanding of Common Core is that it teaches kids multiple ways and encourages solving a problem and being able to thoroughly explain how you arrived at the solution, with the focus being on the explanation of how more so than just following a formula/algorithm. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1987049 Tue, 16 Dec 2014 15:13:00 +0000 erinpye 1987049@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs.KMM: I hate that. I would be 100% for a method that allowed kids to do math in a way that they felt comfortable, and that made sense to them. For me, touting that the new way is "creative," yet not allowing kids to be creative outside this one way, discredits it as such. The core of being creative is thinking outside the box, not being restricted to thinking one way. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1986597 Tue, 16 Dec 2014 12:04:56 +0000 Mrs.KMM 1986597@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>My issue with the "new math" (and this info comes straight from an elementary school teacher having to teach it) is that, when it comes to all the new testing for common core, students HAVE to use this method to solve the math problems. So even if another perfectly acceptable and correct method makes more sense to them and their minds and learning styles, they are wrong if they don't use (and show) these techniques. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1984331 Sun, 14 Dec 2014 20:26:00 +0000 Mrs. Lion 1984331@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@anandam: I learned how to do this in college (it totally blew my mind then!!) but I have never seen it taught to students here. Interesting! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1984277 Sun, 14 Dec 2014 19:23:40 +0000 mrbee 1984277@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@anandam: We had to learn other base systems in 6th grade... it seemed ridiculously impractical at the time, but was useful later in life! (Mostly, base two.) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1984269 Sun, 14 Dec 2014 19:19:11 +0000 anandam 1984269@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Are kids really learning to do math in base systems other than 10? That's pretty cool if you ask me. I'm comfortable with math and was pretty confused when we started dealing with that in high school, so I'm all for it! I like the idea of playing with the numbers many different ways instead of fearing them, but I hope teachers remain open to whatever method works for the individual. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1984254 Sun, 14 Dec 2014 18:52:01 +0000 Mrs.Pinecone316 1984254@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I am hoping they will go back to the old way by the time my kids are learning Math. That all seems so confusing! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1984136 Sun, 14 Dec 2014 16:12:46 +0000 erinpye 1984136@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Speaking of math and how it's taught, I watched this recently and found it super interesting: <a href="http://youtu.be/xyowJZxrtbg" rel="nofollow">http://youtu.be/xyowJZxrtbg</a> </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1984130 Sun, 14 Dec 2014 16:09:00 +0000 farawayyama 1984130@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@snickers: I love the Numeracy Project. I'm a NZ trained teacher, currently doing my masters thesis on issues related to mathematics in NZ and the USA (and ELLS - it all ties together somehow ;) ). I know I am blatantly biased, having taught using Numpr, but it is definately the one I prefer, although the shift toward conceptual understanding here in the US is a huge step in the right direction.</p> <p>ETA: What frustrates me about the engineering dad is that he misses the point entirely. His child wasn't asked to solve the problem, he was asked to identify an error. Outside of the fact that it a way of developing and assessing his understanding of mathematical concepts, figuring out where errors happened, why they happened and fixing them is a really important skill in all professions, especially engineering! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1979730 Thu, 11 Dec 2014 00:05:58 +0000 rrachael 1979730@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@blackbird: I totally agree with everything you've said. People response on here makes me so hopeful as a teacher. Facebook is full of these "engineer dad" posts and they just spread misconceptions and ridiculousness. SO many adults hate math. SO many kids hate math. And, fwiw, most parents couldn't help their kids with math beyond third grade doing it "the old way" either. New does not equal bad ... I really think people will start changing their minds when their kids are getting excited while explaining all the different ways they can solve a simple problem. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1979515 Wed, 10 Dec 2014 21:11:14 +0000 jedeve 1979515@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I get the change analogy and really I think that makes so much more sense. I'm really pretty good at math, but for the life of me I can't borrow or "carry the one" in my head. I remember explaining to my fifth grade teachers own method thinking it was do much easier and her saying I was wrong. </p> <p>Really everyone's brains process math differently and we should just teach kids in a way that helps them figure it out for themselves. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1979499 Wed, 10 Dec 2014 21:02:13 +0000 Applesandbananas 1979499@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I was encouraged to learn the logic, not to just memorize, because the logic of a concept can be applied to many situations, but memorizing something means you'll probably just forget it! ;) I think that's what common core is getting at! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1979382 Wed, 10 Dec 2014 19:49:42 +0000 erinpye 1979382@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I'm 30 and that's how I learned it...I don't think this is the "new math" people are talking about. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math/page/2#post-1979247 Wed, 10 Dec 2014 17:01:51 +0000 Mrs. Lion 1979247@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@blackbird: exactly this</p> <p>I don't have a problem with the new way. It teaches kids to understand math, not just follow a formula. If kids had been taught this way all along I don't think there would be nearly the struggle. But when I tutor middle school students who can't remember how to correctly "borrow" it only proves the need for a different way of thinking. Kids dont remember the algorhythms because they never understood them in the first place. </p> <p>Parents are frustrated because they don't get it...but again, the fact that most parents don't get it only speaks to the need for teaching the next generation differently so that they do have a deep understanding of how our number system works. </p> <p>I really wish they had phased common core in, starting with kindergarten, and allowed students and teachers to adjust more naturally to the new methods. I think this would have prevented the majority of problems families are having. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math#post-1979192 Wed, 10 Dec 2014 16:25:46 +0000 mrs.shinerbock 1979192@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Cherrybee: great analogy! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math#post-1978909 Wed, 10 Dec 2014 14:06:59 +0000 Cherrybee 1978909@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@TemperanceBrennan: They do at some schools in my city (UK)! They have classes at the school for parents to attend (not compulsory) to get them up to the required standard to help their kids with homework. They show you how to do maths etc the way they are teaching it as opposed to the way you learned it. </p> <p>I totally get this "new maths" now I've read about it. Its like if you had to give someone change - you wouldn't get out a pen and paper and work out how much to give them, you would count up from the amount you had charged them to the nearest 10p (with copper coins), then nearest £ (with silver coins), then the nearest note (with £ coins) then use notes for the rest. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math#post-1978704 Wed, 10 Dec 2014 13:10:30 +0000 mrs.shinerbock 1978704@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@blackbird: I completely agree with your comments that people don't like it because it's new/weird/different. Also add to that that the internet is full of examples like the Engineer Dad above and now *everyone* hates the new math, but they don't necessarily understand what it is trying to do or how. Like what @looch: and @TemperanceBrennan: said - a primer/explanation to the parents would do a lot to get people onboard. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math#post-1978618 Wed, 10 Dec 2014 12:38:40 +0000 blackbird 1978618@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@ShootingStar: OoOoo he has a whole bachelors degree in Engineering!!! Color me not impressed ;) And it would not result in termination. Big fat eye roll from me. People do things in unusual ways all the time at work...and nobody cares about the process so much as the end result. </p> <p>Adults don't like this because we don't understand it. It's new/different/weird/more complicated. It's just something that *we* would have to be taught, too, in order to be proficient enough to help our kids out. But of course it's hard to us, we didn't learn how to do it this way and we've had 30+ years of it being cemented the other way. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math#post-1978550 Wed, 10 Dec 2014 12:08:01 +0000 looch 1978550@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@TemperanceBrennan: yes, that's exactly it...as a parent, I would appreciate an explanation/overview. I feel that's where the frustration is. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math#post-1978544 Wed, 10 Dec 2014 12:03:37 +0000 meganmp 1978544@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>The purpose of the "new math", and I hate that term with a passion, is to get kids to have mathematical fluency. We want children to be able to manipulate numbers in their heads to enable them to have multiple strategies to solve problems. It's good teaching practices. Granted, there are methods that are bat shit insane and make no sense to me, but they make sense to some kids. </p> <p>The kid messed up because he didn't subtract 316, he subtracted 306- three big bumps (100s) and six little ones (1s). He should have gotten to 327, then 227, then 127, then 117 (counting backwards by a ten) and then 111 (counting back six ones). </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math#post-1978541 Wed, 10 Dec 2014 12:02:12 +0000 TemperanceBrennan 1978541@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Here's the correct response :happy:<br /> I do think the teachers should send a lesson overview for the parents to read because it is so different from what we learned growing up.</p> <p>[attach=3633/14/ngdlzp.600x341.save.JPG] </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math#post-1978529 Wed, 10 Dec 2014 11:51:23 +0000 Mamaof2 1978529@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@TemperanceBrennan: I do thinks its funny because I am so lost - even after reading your answer I still cant figure out how you know that and I was really good at math growing up! This new stuff makes me feel so dumb! :bummed: </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/can-you-do-the-new-math#post-1978527 Wed, 10 Dec 2014 11:50:04 +0000 ShootingStar 1978527@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@TemperanceBrennan: I don't think it's funny as much as I think it's spot on. I've stared at that number line and I have no idea what mistake was made. And in the real world simplicity *is* valued over complication. </p>