https://boards.hellobee.com/ Pregnancy, Baby and Parenting blog, by Hellobee en Fri, 01 May 2026 23:11:09 +0000 https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1363606 Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:42:48 +0000 looch 1363606@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@coopsmama: haha, I can't be converted, so don't worry about that! </p> <p>Thanks for the clarification, I didn't realize there was a formal "break" from the rules of the Old Testament. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1363596 Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:39:17 +0000 coopsmama 1363596@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@looch: Thanks for your response -- you didn't offend me at all! I hope you didn't take my reply to be an attempt at "converting" you to my way of thinking. I was just trying to answer the original question. :)</p> <p>One thing to note though in terms of my beliefs. I haven't picked which rules I want to follow to suit me. The ones you mentioned on menstruation and mixed fibers are in the Old Testament which is the Old Covenant that we believe we are no longer under since Christ's death. I just wanted to clear that up so you don't think we're all walking hypocrites! ;) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1363200 Tue, 21 Jan 2014 07:52:45 +0000 looch 1363200@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Thanks for taking the time to write back and formulate a response to my question. I don't know if the next few things I am going to write will offend, but I think it's important for everyone to know where I am coming from.</p> <p>For me, at the end of the day, the Bible is a work of fiction, it may at some point have been derived from some events, but I do not look at it as a manual on how to live a modern life. This primarily stems from the fact that the Bible is full of antiquated rules, such as not wearing clothing of mixed fibers and separating menstruating women from society. It doesn't logically compute for me when people pick and choose the aspects that they want to belive in or suit them, it's either all or none for me. </p> <p>If God hates divorce, that's certainly his right, he can hate the act, he can hate the people that participate in it, whatever suits him. But, to simply say that it's okay to hate the act but forgive the people that participate in it, well, I can't accept that logically. The act doesn't exist without particpants, and that is where I just can not separate the two. I hope that is clear enough! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1363057 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 23:52:41 +0000 Mrs. Sketchbook 1363057@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@coopsmama: I agree with you 100%, but I also think it is important to think of the world as sin-saturated. It isn't possible for a human to make a decision without a tinge of sin in it. Even the decisions that we think are sin-free...as soon as we start congratulating ourselves for making the decision, then sin has entered the picture. </p> <p>Like I said, as someone who comes from a family affected by divorce, I don't like it on a personal level. But I can't look into the heart of a person who divorces and see whether or not that sin is worse than, for example, staying in the relationship and enabling behavior (such as abuse and addiction), or if in my weakness, engaging in abusive behaviors as a result of the emotional upheaval caused by a toxic relationship (example, if I am so unhappy in my marriage that I take my frustration out on my children). </p> <p>The wise thing is to make the decision to marry very carefully and to work hard to keep your marriage strong, but that isn't possible in all cases. I would never, for example, stay married to an alcoholic. I would rather tempt hell than put my kids through that, or enable my husband's destruction, and I hope God would show me mercy in that situation.</p> <p>I am sure the divorce rate has gone up because people don't take their vows as seriously. But also I think it is because women are more financially independent and don't have to put up with abuse or disrespect in exchange for a roof over their head and for their children. It is a shame to see that the divorce rate is so high, but at the same time I cringe to think of all the women in abusive relationships over the centuries who had no hope of exit. I just watched Downton Abbey though so perhaps that is why this is on my mind....one certain character's situation (though not divorce), reminds me that women haven't always been able to make decisions for themselves. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362985 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 22:36:14 +0000 coopsmama 1362985@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@looch: @mrs. bird: @Mrs. Lemon-Lime: </p> <p>That question, as @Pui said, is a complicated one. I’ll do my best to concisely share the theology addressing it and also some of the implications of that theology. </p> <p>I think, first of all, it’s important to note that I personally believe that: God is the creator of all things, and we as the creation have ALL sinned against God and His laws. Thus, we ALL after death are bound for Hell without His grace and mercy through Jesus Christ’s sacrificial death on the Cross and His subsequent resurrection. His resurrection proved that He held power over death. I think that because of Christ’s sacrifice, we can choose to believe on His name alone as our salvation from sin and death and we can be saved and come into relationship with God. As @Pui said – we are forgiven for our sins!</p> <p>I believe that God created us to glorify Him and to be in relationship with Him. That is our purpose! I know, personally, that when I sin I find myself distancing from God. I do not have as good of a relationship with Him as I could. Of course, He forgives me, but that doesn’t change the fact that I have driven a wedge in our relationship that needs to be repaired! I attempt (and fail... all.the.time!) to lead a sin-free life because I want to remain close to God and I also view obeying His word as an act of thankfulness for His gift of salvation from death. </p> <p>On a practical level, as a Christian, I don’t think it makes much sense to believe in God and believe in His salvation and ignore what He says in the Bible. If God is a perfect and holy God, then why should I assume that I as His creation know more than He does for my life? If God is a loving God who would send His Son to die for ME – a sinner! -, then why would I assume that He wouldn’t want the very best for me? </p> <p>I believe that, though bad things do still happen because we live in a sinful world with sinful people, God has given us the Bible as a guide to navigating through life. I think that includes His principles on marriage and divorce. For example, my husband and I were virgins when we married. It was VERY hard to save our sexual relationships for after marriage because we were in love and very attracted to each other. We felt it was important to save that for after marriage because of God’s principle in the Bible – that sex is for marriage alone. </p> <p>Had we had sex before getting married, God would have forgiven us. But we would have disobeyed His word and there would have been consequences just exactly like there are for any sin. </p> <p>We all know that there are far-reaching consequences to divorce and that divorce doesn’t just affect those that were in the marriage. Divorce is usually ugly – no doubt about that. And yes, God forgives those who divorce just as He forgives for any other sin. But that doesn’t change the fact that that was not God’s original intent for marriage or the fact that He hates divorce (Malachi 2:16). </p> <p>So the problem isn’t that one who is involved in a divorce isn’t forgiven! They absolutely are. The problem is that it separates them from God as it harms their relationship with Him and it has lasting consequences that God wants to keep us all from. </p> <p>I hope that answered your question. I’m sorry I couldn’t be more brief. It’s a huge topic. If you have any more questions as to my beliefs – feel free to ask. I think this has been an incredibly fascinating thread and I’ve enjoyed reading all of the diverse perspectives. :) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362886 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 21:23:24 +0000 Mrs. Sketchbook 1362886@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I agree with @Mrs. Polish: that taking the Bible, or just one sin, out of context is very dangerous. If being in a miserable marriage means me enduring depression (which is an indicator for reckless and abusive behavior), enabling sinful or destructive behavior (addiction, abuse), or effects my ability to be a good parent, then I say cut it out and pray for mercy. </p> <p>I think the reason why Christians try to avoid sin (a la the question from @looch: ) is because while faith in Christ will give you eternal life, a life that is free of sin can make your experience on earth more abundant. I venture to believe that most Christians believe that the law is good (well we all ought to, since Christ tells us a much), meaning that if you follow it to the letter, your life will be better/happier/more peace-filled than it would be if you didn't. </p> <p>But if all marriages proceeded as they are supposed to (the way Paul outlines it), then divorce would be unnecessary. Sadly, that isn't what happens. So divorce happens. </p> <p>I don't think that people can always just change how they are. I don't think there is always enough willpower to fix a marriage that is fundamentally broken. Add to that, I have no power to change my spouse; I firmly believe that only my spouse can change himself. So if something drastic happened I would not hesitate to leave if that was healthiest for both of us and/or our child. </p> <p>Also I am an ACD (Adult Child of Divorce). It has totally shaped my perspective on relationships and my identity. I know this because I can identify more strongly with friends who are ACDs vs my husband whose family is intact. It has had pretty significant impact on my relationship with my parents too. So I feel I am aware that while divorce is an option, it is as another poster said-- the nuclear option. It will fundamentally alter your LO, so it is good to decide which problems are worth it for you. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362832 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 21:02:31 +0000 twoofeverything 1362832@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Anagram: Yes, yes, and yes! I'm the product of a generally unhappy marriage. I believe that my parents loved each other, but I also suspect that they stayed married because of co-dependence and their fears that it would somehow hurt me.<br /> Long story on many fronts, but I guarantee you that it would have been better if they divorced.<br /> So yes, I believe in divorce. But yes, I believe that it's different for everyone.<br /> Dr. Laura ain't my fave. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362773 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 20:44:57 +0000 Mrs. Taco 1362773@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I don't have more to add but just wanted to say I've enjoyed reading through all of the responses...I'm in the 'every marriage (and possible divorce) is different and the business of the two people in it' but I feel like I've learned a lot about different stances on the issue. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362734 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 20:25:01 +0000 Kemma 1362734@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@pui: could it be summed up with "love the sinner, hate the sin"? </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362573 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 19:06:43 +0000 pui 1362573@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@looch: @mrs. bird: Okay sure! I'll do my best to sum it up because I do feel like this a sidetrack from the thread. Keep in mind that it's a pretty big topic and I'm sure you'll have questions lol.</p> <p>God never stopped loving and wanting to be near the people He created. The "problem" is that He is a just God. There is no righteousness without God and God is the definition of righteous. Infact, God literally invented righteousness. It is because of this that He cannot accept sin. This is how sin separates us from God.</p> <p>Unfortunately, Every human being on earth since Adam and Eve, who chose to disobey God, sins.</p> <p>This "problem" however, is not a problem anymore. Jesus came to earth and died on the cross for our sins (John 3:16). Because of that, no matter our sins, we merely have to believe in Him and choose to accept Him in to our lives and we are forgiven. That's all.</p> <p>The whole thing can be summed up fairly well in these two verses:</p> <p>Romans 3:23-24</p> <p>"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."</p> <p>Ah, I just love Romans... :)</p> <p>So yeah. There is the very, very simplified version! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362452 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 18:09:24 +0000 deactivated_account 1362452@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: That question calls for quite a bit of speculation! My parents have always remained friendly so I imagine that I would have had a fine childhood if they stayed together. But they really should have never gotten married as their differences were glaringly obvious and quite silly. But if they could have compromised somehow on one issue, then they could have stayed together and that could have been just fine for them, too. But life happens as it does and I'm more than happy with my life. But divorce still sucks for kids for obvious reasons. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362417 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 18:00:42 +0000 Mrs. Lemon-Lime 1362417@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@MrsMcD: how do you think your life would have been better if your parents stayed together? How about their lives? </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362403 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 17:56:21 +0000 Mrs. Lemon-Lime 1362403@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I'm still following the thread, so whenever @coopsmama: and @pui: get to it, I'll be sure to read it. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362389 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 17:50:15 +0000 coopsmama 1362389@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@looch: @mrs. bird: I can type up my thoughts to this question later today, if you'd like. But since I'm on full time LO duty until later tonight (west coast time!) it won't be for awhile. :) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362343 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 17:33:25 +0000 mrs. bird 1362343@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@pui: I would also be interested in reading responses to @looch: 's question! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362337 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 17:30:47 +0000 looch 1362337@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@pui: I think it is relevant to the topic at hand and if you want to post in the thread I think it would only add to the discussion. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362329 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 17:26:42 +0000 pui 1362329@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@looch: Wow okay that is a HUGE question lol. I could try and answer it as simply as possible, but it's probably better suited to wall posts! :) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362325 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 17:24:43 +0000 looch 1362325@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>So I have a question, probably a silly one, but if the Bible is clear that divorce is a sin but Jesus loves everyone of us, sins and all, what exactly is the problem? </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362140 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 16:03:00 +0000 deactivated_account 1362140@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I haven't read through all the posts at all. But I can just say from my own personal experience that the divorces I have seen go down among my own social circle were, could have, and/or should have been predicted before the marriage even happened. The problems that caused the divorces ALL existed in some sort of noticeable fashion before the marriage occurred. Sucks for those guys and girls. Having grown up with divorced parents, I can say that I don't like it and its sucks for kids. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362134 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 15:59:37 +0000 pui 1362134@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Polish: Yes, people twist what the Bible says all the time (infact I feel that some of the other Christians on this thread did just that), which is why I am very careful about understanding scripture in context. I'd hope that any Christian (or otherwise) wouldn't just take my word for it anyway and go check out the whole chapter for themselves. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362119 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 15:52:02 +0000 Mrs. Polish 1362119@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@pui: I didn't mean to imply that citing verses equals judgment, but I think once a single line is taken out without context it can be twisted to fit certain adgendas. That's why it makes me feel uncomfortable. I wouldn't say we shouldn't judge people and then judge you. I think my point would have been better organized if I had started a new paragraph.</p> <p>@prettylizy: *return long distance virtual high five*. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362107 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 15:46:10 +0000 prettylizy 1362107@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Polish: as a non-religious person can I say *HIGH FIVE*. What an excellent statement. I would agree that pulling single lines out of the bible can get really tricky. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362104 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 15:45:14 +0000 pui 1362104@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Polish: I agree. In the end, it's between them and God. Only He knows the state of every heart.</p> <p>I in no way judge people who have had divorces or are remarried (my own mother has been married 3 times, almost completely out of her own control). I've never been divorced, but it isn't inconceivable that it could happen to me.</p> <p>I firmly believe that Jesus loves every soul and that we are called to do the same. It's a fundamental part of being Christian.</p> <p>I don't think pointing out what the Bible says on a subject is judging (especially since this whole line of conversation started because someone asked about it pages ago). I simply think it is important to know what the Bible actually says about these things. Not liking what it says isn't a good reason to pretend it isn't written clearly. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362085 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 15:37:32 +0000 Mrs. Polish 1362085@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@pui: right, I agree with you that the bible says it's a sin. I just believe that God's love for us surpasses it. We're all sinners. I get uncomfortable when single lines are pulled out of the bible and used as rules (aside from the commandments). We are to love one another and not judge. So if someone wants a divorce, I think it's their business to discuss what's on their heart with God (if they're Christian). </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1362012 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 15:07:15 +0000 Mrsbells 1362012@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I havent read though all the posts.<br /> I believe that these days we are way too quick to pull the unhappy card and get divorced. I think a marriage like any other relationship takes work. I wont ask you to stay in an unhappy marriage. All I ask for is that you at least try to fix it before giving up on it. Divorce should be a last resort rather than the first thing to that comes to your mind when things arent peachy </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1361967 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 14:51:03 +0000 pui 1361967@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Polish: I did say repeatedly that of course God loves and forgives us. I never was disputing that! That's KEY!</p> <p>However, that doesn't change that divorce is a sin. The Bible is clear.</p> <p>Jesus loves and died for all people, including divorced or remarried ones. He loves and died for people who had premarital sex, people who took his name in vain, people who lied, all us sinners. Every one. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1361811 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 14:12:19 +0000 Smurfette 1361811@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Polish: Word! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1361766 Mon, 20 Jan 2014 14:02:09 +0000 Mrs. Polish 1361766@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I just read this whole thread and am not going to indivually respond to certain comments, but I feel like some of the Christians who responded with verses about divorce being a sin are focusing too strongly on two or three places in the bible where it touches on divorce. The overall message of the bible (in my opinion) is that God loves us. Jesus died for our sins. And we are forgiven. Being that God loves us, I don't think he would want us to suffer in an unhappy marriage. </p> <p>Just my $0.02. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1359668 Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:53:15 +0000 MsMamaBear 1359668@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@mrs. bird: Good post. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/divorce-agree-or-disagree/page/5#post-1359564 Sun, 19 Jan 2014 12:31:37 +0000 yoursilverlining 1359564@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Anagram: agree with everything you said; and I think reality shows the "case-by-case" nature of divorce, regardless of belief system or teaching. If believing that, or being taught that, divorce is not an option provided any safeguard to divorce (or conversely, if marrying knowing one day you might get divorced was step #1 in having an "out plan"), you'd see that reflected in the divorce rates in the US, when divided by religious affiliation. Since you don't, it seems pretty clear that everyone takes their marriage personally, and makes the decisions they do based on the specific issues and components of their individual personalities and marriages.. </p>