https://boards.hellobee.com/ Pregnancy, Baby and Parenting blog, by Hellobee en Sat, 11 Jul 2026 21:51:39 +0000 https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1927048 Mon, 03 Nov 2014 10:56:30 +0000 Jess1483 1927048@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@MrsSCB: I feel the same way. That it should be an option, but that in practice, even with Oregon's extensive safeguards, it still leaves open the possibility of direct abuse and/or pressure to use the medication. It's so hard. Like I said, I did both my undergrad thesis, my graduate thesis, and my research article on this topic, and I still can't come down on one side or the other! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1927042 Mon, 03 Nov 2014 10:54:21 +0000 MrsSCB 1927042@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Jess1483: Thanks, that's a great article. I don't necessarily agree with it, because I support the overall concept of having the option to end suffering during a terminal illness, and I'd like to at least try to develop the most ethical way possible to allow that. But I do agree that in actual practice there are a lot of issues and grey areas, especially when it comes to monetary costs and the way our healthcare system is currently set up. I'd be concerned, as the article suggests, that people might choose PAD for the sole reason that it would save their families a lot of money, or that they could be coerced into choosing it for that same reason. It's such a complicated subject! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1927030 Mon, 03 Nov 2014 10:48:23 +0000 Jess1483 1927030@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@MrsSCB: It is, but it's hard to find on-line without purchasing. I'd be happy to send a pdf if you PM me your e-mail. (ETA: Here's an abstract <a href="http://www.thehastingscenter.org/Publications/HCR/Detail.aspx?id=4859)" rel="nofollow">http://www.thehastingscenter.org/Publications/HCR/Detail.aspx?id=4859)</a></p> <p>I think this opinion article is really interesting, and sums up a lot of my concerns with PAD. I can't bring myself to come down on one side of the issue or the other, and it's mostly due to these concerns of abuse. Was it in play in Brittany's case? No. Is it in play in a lot of cases? Absolutely.</p> <p><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/13/opinion/golden-assisted-suicide/index.html?hpt=hp_t4" rel="nofollow">http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/13/opinion/golden-assisted-suicide/index.html?hpt=hp_t4</a> </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1927026 Mon, 03 Nov 2014 10:46:36 +0000 MrsSCB 1927026@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Jess1483: I just read your comments from a few weeks ago -- is your paper published anywhere that I'd be able to read it? I think this subject is fascinating. I took a class in college on ethics and medicine and we had some very intense discussions during this portion of the curriculum.</p> <p>I'm very sad for Brittany's family, but I'm glad she had the choice. I also wish people would leave religion out of it. I've seen so many comments on Facebook condemning her based on the commenter's beliefs. You're entitled to your own beliefs, of course, but religion should have no bearing on whether this is legalized or not. There are a lot of ethical questions that should be carefully considered, but religious beliefs should not be a factor. </p> <p>I'll be thinking of her family, my heart breaks for them. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1927014 Mon, 03 Nov 2014 10:36:46 +0000 jedeve 1927014@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Jess1483: I think that is a good term. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1926935 Mon, 03 Nov 2014 09:50:42 +0000 Jess1483 1926935@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@jedeve: Part of my research looked at the use of different DWD terms (v. physician-assisted suicide v. physician-assisted death.) I think the support depends quite a bit on the terms used. I think DWD takes the role of the physician out of the conversation, when the role is actually central to the conversation. I prefer PAD. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1926930 Mon, 03 Nov 2014 09:49:46 +0000 autumnlove 1926930@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>RIP Brittany! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1926923 Mon, 03 Nov 2014 09:44:19 +0000 lawbee11 1926923@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@jedeve: I think the "dignity" part is moreso tied in with the terminally ill patient's ability to choose how he/she dies than with implying that one choice is undignified. Like when someone is pro-choice that doesn't necessarily mean that they're pro-abortion, it just means that they're in favor of giving the woman a right to choose. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1926911 Mon, 03 Nov 2014 09:36:50 +0000 loveisstrange 1926911@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Im glad she was able to go out the way she chose to. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1926899 Mon, 03 Nov 2014 09:31:10 +0000 jedeve 1926899@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Being Catholic, it's not something personally I support. But it has been eye opening for me to follow the case. I hope she and her family are able to find peace now. It's such a sad case, no matter how you look at it. </p> <p>My main issue though is with the term, "death with dignity." I mean, I get it. It resonates with people more than "physician assisted suicide." And I get that many of the things that happen in death aren't what we would consider dignified. But in hate the implication that one type of death is undignified. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1926859 Mon, 03 Nov 2014 09:11:39 +0000 blackbird 1926859@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Yeah the Christmas gift part totally got me. Gah. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1926858 Mon, 03 Nov 2014 09:11:22 +0000 BSB 1926858@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I support her decision. I have no idea what it feels like to be diagnosed a terminal disease. I could do the what ifs it was me but I can't. Not until I'm in that situation. I admire her strength and courage to be make the decision and to be an advocate for the right to DWD. Thoughts and prayers are with her and her loved ones. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1926841 Mon, 03 Nov 2014 08:59:20 +0000 Adira 1926841@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@lawbee11: Yeah, I think it's just something about doing all that prep work ahead of time knowing she wasn't going to be there. It's just so sad! :( The whole situation is sad, but I'm glad she didn't have to suffer needlessly. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1926836 Mon, 03 Nov 2014 08:54:08 +0000 lawbee11 1926836@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Adira: I can't imagine buying and wrapping all those gifts knowing you wouldn't be there to hand them out. I'm glad she was able to go the way she wanted (though it still sucks that she had to move to a different state to do it), but the whole story is just so sad. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1926818 Mon, 03 Nov 2014 08:43:32 +0000 Adira 1926818@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>&lt;3</p> <p>Something about this line in the article just broke my heart: "Upstairs in the home she shares with her family are neatly wrapped Christmas and birthday gifts for her loved ones for the next year." </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1926812 Mon, 03 Nov 2014 08:36:17 +0000 lawbee11 1926812@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Just saw this on Facebook: <a href="http://www.people.com/article/brittany-maynard-died-terminal-brain-cancer" rel="nofollow">http://www.people.com/article/brittany-maynard-died-terminal-brain-cancer</a> </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1894375 Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:45:11 +0000 jetsa 1894375@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@blackbird: right? I can remember the weeks leading up to my grandmothers death and the lack of life left in her and that's not to mention the last hours where she gasped for breath she wasn't getting; in noway do I find that beautiful. Her life was over long before that, her body just wasn't gone yet. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1894373 Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:42:43 +0000 jetsa 1894373@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@mrsjazz: exactly I knew the rebuttal wasn't going to sit well with me when she used suicide in the title and that line was over the top. As I said I'm conflicted on what I'd do but to each their own why does Brittany have to have what Kara says is right? She doesn't! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1894364 Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:38:22 +0000 mrsjazz 1894364@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@jetsa: I couldn't even finish that letter from Kara. Ugh. Kara has her journey and Brittany has hers. I stopped reading after the part where Kara wrote that the doctors are going against the hippocratic oath and that Brittany has been told a lie about death. I think people have a hard time wrapping their minds around the concept that not everyone thinks or believes the same thing. We have no idea if Brittany is even religious or a Christian. People who don't like Brittany's choice don't have to make it, simple as that. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1894338 Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:19:16 +0000 blackbird 1894338@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@MrsSCB: yes this. </p> <p>I am under the impression Brittany isn't religious but it's neither here nor there. </p> <p>I imagine the people speaking of the beauty of someone's last moments haven't actually experienced it or are so deeply religious that they take huge solace in being with them as they go to Jesus. Fine but not everyone does </p> <p>I am frustrated by the people bringing their personal religious belief into this arena and putting it on this poor woman. I'm seeing it all over FB! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1894308 Wed, 08 Oct 2014 19:53:16 +0000 littlebug 1894308@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I watched the documentary that others have mentioned about Oregon, and I thought the whole idea was beautiful. I am a medical social worker, and too many times have seen patients needlessly suffer because a) their physicians are too unfamiliar with/afraid of suggesting hospice, b) their families are unwilling to accept that they are dying, or c) they have misconceptions that hospice "speeds up" death. After watching that documentary, I told my husband that if I ever receive a terminal diagnosis, I want to move to Oregon so that I can take advantage of that program. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1894264 Wed, 08 Oct 2014 19:20:26 +0000 MrsSCB 1894264@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Like @lawbee11: I also found the letter extremely condescending. First of all, regarding: "In your choosing your own death, you are robbing those that love you with the such tenderness, the opportunity of meeting you in your last moments and extending you love in your last breaths." -- Her loved ones will be there so she's not robbing them at all of "extending love" in her "last breaths." And why assume her family would prefer for her to suffer just so she'll be here a little bit longer? They sound nothing but supportive.</p> <p>As soon as it began going into the rah rah religion portion, I started feeling angry. Who says she believes in Jesus? Who says she believes in any religion? How dare you try to thrust your religion upon a dying woman who didn't ask for it? This especially bugged me because I, personally, am an atheist, but I respect other people's right to believe what they want to believe. Unfortunately, I don't think a lot of people feel the same way toward my beliefs (or lack thereof). And sorry, I don't see any beauty in watching my loved ones suffer. This just struck me as a bunch of proselytizing couched in patronizing language. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1894256 Wed, 08 Oct 2014 19:14:57 +0000 jetsa 1894256@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Anagram: @lawbee11: I just finished reading it and while that was Kara's point of view I don't like that she is trying to push her views in Brittany's. Right now I don't know what I'd choose,but I found her tone to be condescending. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1894252 Wed, 08 Oct 2014 19:12:11 +0000 mrs. bird 1894252@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@spartysammy: thank you so much for the wonderful, caring work you do! i have no confusion over what the intent of hospice medication is, i commented on the way i've seen it used by the individual in hospice and their family members, i don't suggest that it followed the intent. It is not intended to hasten death, but i am not sure i'd agree that it is not capable of that, most controlled substances are at some dosage. hospice can be whatever someone wants to make of it, if they're not familiar with it and refuse to learn about it, that's really unfortunate. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1894248 Wed, 08 Oct 2014 19:07:23 +0000 lawbee11 1894248@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@jetsa: I found that rebuttal to be very condescending and annoying. I don't know if Brittany Maynard is religious; she never mentioned God or faith in her original piece. I know that the author of the rebuttal means well, but I think often times religious people don't realize how insulting it is to push faith and right/wrong on a non-believer. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1894245 Wed, 08 Oct 2014 19:04:32 +0000 Anagram 1894245@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@jetsa: while I appreciate Kara's viewpoint and I'm really glad she's been able to make peace with her own process of dying, I think she's making a lot of assumptions about the end of life and assuming that all other people dying have the same desires she has. </p> <p>This sentence in particular, actually kind of pissed me off: "In your choosing your own death, you are robbing those that love you with the such tenderness, the opportunity of meeting you in your last moments and extending you love in your last breaths."</p> <p>I traveled that journey with my own dad, when he died of a glioblastoma. My mom was there in his last year, his last month, his last weeks, his last hours, his last breath. She just traveled that same journey with my uncle (my mom's younger brother) who passed away this past weekend from melanoma that had spread to the liver. My mom was positively haunted by my uncle's last hours--her first words to me when I reached there yesterday were "I wish I could forget those last 3 hours".</p> <p>My uncle was mercifully "asleep", his organs were shutting down, and the last 3 hours were loud--death isn't like the movies where you just close your eyes and pass away peacefully--it's LOUD and it's messy. Both my dad and my uncle were moaning despite being unconscious, a sign that they were still in pain up until the end, My uncle was making loud gurgling noises as his body struggled to breathe, that got louder and louder until he eventually ceased breathing altogether. </p> <p>It's traumatic for loved ones to see their siblings, or spouses, or parents die in that way. </p> <p>I don't think it's more noble, or superior in any way for people and their parents to go through this, any more than I think it's noble or superior for a family to decide to opt out and use pills to hasten the process. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1894244 Wed, 08 Oct 2014 19:04:30 +0000 reverie 1894244@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@jetsa: I have briefly familiarized myself with Brittany's campaign (a campaign I strongly endorse), but don't know all the details. Has she expressed being deeply religious? I think how one chooses to handle this type of situation is deeply personal. I don't think it is undignified to have a prolonged death and I don't think it is wrong for Brittany to choose to end her life on her terms. I can definitely understand how conflicting it could be either way, but I believe that people should have the choice to handle things how they would like in this scenario; whether it is to wait it out or to do things the way Brittany is. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1894225 Wed, 08 Oct 2014 18:43:06 +0000 jetsa 1894225@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>has anyone read this rebuttal <a href="http://www.aholyexperience.com/2014/10/dear-brittany-why-we-dont-have-to-be-so-afraid-of-dying-suffering-that-we-choose-suicide/" rel="nofollow">http://www.aholyexperience.com/2014/10/dear-brittany-why-we-dont-have-to-be-so-afraid-of-dying-suffering-that-we-choose-suicide/</a> </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1894173 Wed, 08 Oct 2014 17:34:53 +0000 mamimami 1894173@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@MaryM: thank you for sharing your family's story. I feel very conflicted about this but you brought up something I was thinking.... I don't like the words we use in this "debate" because I don't like to hear it insinuated that dying slowly, in a hospital bed, hooked to machines, losing control of your bowels or whatever is undignified. I know it's not what some people want for themselves but losing control of yourself in this way is not undignified at all in my opinion. Suffering, vulnerability and realizing we can't control everything is an inevitable part of life for most of us, whether we die in a hospice or not. It has nothing to do with dignity. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/dying-with-dignity-thoughts/page/2#post-1894169 Wed, 08 Oct 2014 17:33:04 +0000 spartysammy 1894169@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@mrs. bird: I work in hospice and just want to clarify that the meds hospices provide do not hasten death. Sometimes when someone is comfortable they are able to die more quickly than someone who is in agony. It is a horrible misconception that morphine will hazten death and often puts people off from hospice when it really is a wonderful program. </p>