https://boards.hellobee.com/ Pregnancy, Baby and Parenting blog, by Hellobee en Fri, 10 Apr 2026 16:52:26 +0000 https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2845579 Sat, 15 Sep 2018 09:29:24 +0000 Mrs. Sketchbook 2845579@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Modern Daisy: Sorry for the late reply! Last year was my son's 5th birthday party so we rented the city pool and invited a bunch of people and paid to have two lifeguards. I will admit the party was at 6 which was the requirement of the pool (they are open to the public in the afternoon), but still the turnout was dismal. I think we probably had fewer than 20 people (that includes extended family and parents of the kids invited) when we had initially estimated 40 and some of them didn't even swim, so I had paid a lifeguard for 2 hours for no reason because I only needed two lifeguards if we had more than 30. I had all this food too, but a lot of people didn't stay to eat. I think that is what forced me to consider putting my attention into the volunteering and other hobby stuff that I had and just letting that be my social outlet. This year we did a family outing for my oldest when he turned 6. I was just too burned from that experience to do another big party! So I can identify with feeling disappointed in party turn out for sure. I think I ended up giving about the equivalent of a full sheet cake to the lifeguards to take home with them! It is so hard to maintain those close friends who live outside of your everyday geographic zone. we were supposed to get together today with some very good friends from college who have boys that are the same age as us but they had to cancel last minute. A year ago I think that would have stung a lot more but I have become a lot more jaded in the past year so I wasn't totally surprised. However I did offer to watch some local kids while their parents went to a destination wedding. We don't have quite as much in common with the local parents but the kids all love each other and I was glad to help. I really think that the volunteering and crafts thing so much with feeling awkward or even dealing with feelings of rejection. there have been times in the past year where I have felt awkward like I stuck my foot in my mouth at a meeting or whatever but then I remind myself that we are all there to achieve a common goal. At first I focused on making friends, but I have found that the more I focus on the projects we have going on rather than trying to make friends, the more quality people I end up meeting. I did publicity for one volunteer organization and I met a ton of people that way because I had to call the newspapers, etc. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2844616 Tue, 11 Sep 2018 05:21:11 +0000 Modern Daisy 2844616@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@irene: oh man I totally get it. If other families don’t have kids similar ages or live too far it’s like fitting a square peg in a round hole or whatever. And see the thing is that I actually DO have time to hang out and see friends, it just can’t be during the work day. I WOH so it’s super convenient for me to meet up with friends on my way home and miss bedtime one night. Your comment about having many acquaintances and zero close friends is also my situation but the sad thing is that up until a couple weeks ago I actually thought I had close friends. It was very upsetting to come to terms with the fact that people who I thought were good friends couldn’t even find time to respond to my sons evite, forget actually attending his party. And it’s like no big deal to them, like we aren’t worth the 30 seconds. I know I’m making too much of this but it was a turning point for sure. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2844576 Mon, 10 Sep 2018 18:13:30 +0000 irene 2844576@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I've been lurking this thread and meant to make a comment but haven't had time to do that - late to the party but me too. </p> <p>My dilemma:<br /> - In this stage of life, finding a friend is harder than finding a husband. I want to be friends with someone who has kids around the same age as my DS and ideally we have similar # of kids, and our kids get along with each other and can play with each other. AND I can get along with this mom and vice versa, our age, our parenting methodology, and even our general approach to life needs to be somewhat similar. AND we need to live in 10 minute radius from each other. If you like to be friends with a certain mom and her kid(s), she may not have time for you because she has her own life and social circles. There seems to be a lot of that after we started school but sadly I haven't been able to make any friends because of the next point...</p> <p>- I am very shy and awkward with a group of people I don't know / I don't know very well.</p> <p>- I generally have no time to devote to anything other than DS, work, DH (note that DH is the last on the list :meh: ) I don't even have time for myself. So even if I wanted to do a yoga class, or do more school volunteering...etc. I didn't want to take up the responsibility. </p> <p>So it is sad... while there seems to be a ton of moms everywhere, it is hard to meet them and be friends. I have a lot of acquaintances, but 0 close friends. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2844543 Mon, 10 Sep 2018 15:39:06 +0000 looch 2844543@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Sketchbook: that's great to know! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2844526 Mon, 10 Sep 2018 15:02:25 +0000 Modern Daisy 2844526@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Sketchbook: the way you describe your friendship situation perfectly articulates the obstacles I’m (and clearly many others) are facing. My friends who are never available to meet up in person and don’t even bother to return my texts half the time are the ones who live a bit further away and have kids the same age. I’ve been feeling frustrated in general for a while now but like you it was coming to a head this summer when request after request to hang out got turned down and then the poor turnout at ds’s Bday party. It is a genius idea to join a regular class or volunteee group, as a couple other people have mentioned here as well, since it is an excuse to get out at a certain time/date and it’s more likely people will actually show up. I’m considering joining a yoga class and also volunteering at church and my sons new school. </p> <p>I’m so glad I started this thread and really appreciate all the responses and advice so far!! It’s been very helpful and I already have a plan of action. I can’t get over my awkwardness and non- popular person tendencies but if I put myself out there I feel like I have a better chance of actually making new friends who will hopefully have more time and ability to hang out! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2844494 Mon, 10 Sep 2018 12:56:33 +0000 Mrs. Sketchbook 2844494@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@looch: I absolutely adore the YMCA. we are not involved in the church so to find something regular and community-based like YMCA or scouting is really perfect for us. we do all of our Sports at the YMCA and I work out at the YMCA and there have been times when I have taken the kids to childcare just so I could get a little bit of work done since I work from home. it is really the type of place where you feel like you're part of a mini oasis. Plus at least in my small town it is a fairly diverse group with after school kids and they Camp kids so my son typically sees a lot of his peers who go to the same public school as him. It doesn't feel as exclusive as a private gym would... it really is a community center. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2844491 Mon, 10 Sep 2018 12:40:13 +0000 Mrs. Sketchbook 2844491@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I haven't read the responses but I will say that the best thing for me has been to join a volunteer group and take up a craft. Right now I do Junior League and I also do ceramics. In both of those things I have made a lot of adult friends some of them are parents, some are not, some of them have grown children some have children slightly older than me. this helps me to avoid the dreaded trap of meeting only friends who have kids my same age and then we are all busy at the same times. there was a New York article that came out about a year ago that said that the most important thing for making adult friends is proximity. it is hard to take the time to meet with a group of friends or even meet one-on-one but if we all have to be at a meeting or at the studio at the same time every week we are likely to run into each other there. plus I get my Social needs met without having to put someone on the spot and force them to make plans. sometimes we will go get coffee or a drink or lunch after a meeting because everyone just happens to be free but if you had tried to get that group together on a random evening it would have been much harder to arrange. my children do extracurriculars and I do run into the people I know there but we are usually on the same schedules and are similarly limited. I am working on having really realistic expectations about friendship. Over the summer I was starting to feel a little bit isolated and frustrated and felt like I had to do all the heavy lifting in my relationships. after the school year got started back I got super busy and that helped me to understand that everyone is really busy. So if I catch up with a good friend at a meeting or happened to run into them at a soccer game and that's as much as we can accomplish I am satisfied with that. the old adage of it is a marathon not a Sprint I think certainly applies with friendship. the older our kids get the easier it will be too deep in those relationships so right now I think just keeping them active is key. sometimes I will just go through my last 3 months of text messages and send everybody a quick hello how are you text. I'm speaking of out-of-town friends and college friends and cousins and stuff. for some reason I'm doing it all at one time makes it seem less difficult. usually only two or three people will text me back with any substance but that is enough for me to get in touch with everyone at least once every couple of months. EDIT: sorry for the grammar errors I did voice to text to transcribe this response. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2844456 Mon, 10 Sep 2018 09:25:35 +0000 Modern Daisy 2844456@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@2littlepumpkins: I totally hear you and I miss that too. I remember vividly once I went to dinner with a Mom group years ago and all they would talk about was what preschools they were touring and how incompetent their husbands are with the kids. I was so turned off I never went again. When I get two seconds to go out without my kids I don’t want to spend the whole time talking about them. Plus it felt like a competition or something which I’m not into. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2844380 Sun, 09 Sep 2018 22:47:37 +0000 2littlepumpkins 2844380@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I found it a lot easier to have friendships when I had FT work and work friends. It's hard with three of them because it's harder to find families with kids the same age. And truthfully, I think in the back of my mind, being really honest, I don't really want "mom friends" and play dates, because I spend so much time doing mom stuff. It's not like I'm against having mom friends, but what I really miss are having friends that have nothing to do with motherhood and where we barely touch on that as a topic of conversation. :shocked: </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2844290 Sun, 09 Sep 2018 08:01:53 +0000 Modern Daisy 2844290@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Littlebit7: I live in a suburban area but moved from nyc 4 years ago so I sympathize with your situation it’s even harder there! You would think there’s so many people in the city moms groups must be active and meet up all the time but it’s even more lonely there in some ways. And yes totally the kids need to get along which is another challenge. Not that I’m blaming DS at all but his behavioral challenges do keep him from getting invited to things like Bday parties play dates etc. it’s already so hard for people to meet up they sometimes don’t want to waste those precious moments with an adhd kid making everything harder. But then when we hang out with other SN kids it intensifies his behaviors. So we can’t win! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2844289 Sun, 09 Sep 2018 07:57:43 +0000 Modern Daisy 2844289@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@nana87: I’m so sorry to hear about your BFF!! I get it though because even my friends with kids act like that. People who I thought were my besties seem to have zero problem blowing me off at the last minute and make zero effort to see me. I just don’t get it! Am I that unimportant? And lately no one is even responding to my texts. I understand back to school time is busy and work is picking up again but to not even respond to a text is just rude and super frustrating. I swear I’m nice and fun and likeable! Sorry to pity party on your pity party but I totally get it!! :( </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2844256 Sat, 08 Sep 2018 17:24:06 +0000 Nutella 2844256@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I hear you! And I’m sorry you feel isolated- it’s the crummiest. I can understand and commiserate. I SAH and I have also WOH big hands down found the social aspect more of an impact when SAH. Like someone mentioned, you need the kids to get along as well as you and the mum! Plus...I’ve found that I find it impossible to hang out with mums who are way more intense or highly strung as it brings out more anxiety and neuroses in me (that I didn’t even know existed)!! I do find at least having a text or fb messenger chat thread going helps, since you can still stay connected somewhat. It is hard to meet up with other mums who have babies older than infant stage (ie when nap schedules become more critical) I also find it hard though when they can’t meet during X &amp; Y times because their baby is sleeping (mine is super flexible and ends up falling asleep wherever) - I feel like I’m putting his needs second to me having social interaction 😬 it’s also hard if you live in a transient area as I’ve had it happen where you meet an amazing family but then they move far away 😭 I’m in an area like that, a mix of transients plus older mums who work full time and have nannies. I feel so lame complaining to DH about it as he’s not big into hanging out with friends all the time so he doesn’t view it like a real problem. So, sorry no help but commiserations! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2844047 Thu, 06 Sep 2018 20:54:59 +0000 Littlebit7 2844047@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>So what type of community do you live in? Small town? Big city? Rural? Urban? What are the centers of get togethers? Playgrounds? Church? School? Clubs? Gym? Running? Community groups? Mom clgroup? Mops?<br /> Knowing that might help answer your questions</p> <p>So for my personal situation, I live in a very urban area outside nyc. My friends had mostly been (unmarried, childless) work friends<br /> of convienence in Manhattan and then we<br /> moved here (across the Hudson River). I knew no one. Zero. Zilch<br /> I had a kid<br /> Reconnected with an acquaintance from college and sloowwwwly built a solid friendship. Took a year. She’s now my best friend here. I was introduced to another mom. Sloooowwwwly built a friendship (another year). I’ve met some<br /> Moms at parks and at classes and always try to exchange numbers and throw out meeting for a play date or a walk. It’s incredibly hard. It’s like dating. Harder, maybe, because you need the kids to get along as well as the adults.<br /> But I will say, even though you probably think all<br /> of the other moms have close circles and have it all together and are “set” for friends, that’s probably not true. No one wants to admit they want or need friends. But there are<br /> So many others in your situation; just look at this thread! It’s hard to make the initial effort and sometimes it won’t turn into a friendship bi tits worth the risk! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2844045 Thu, 06 Sep 2018 20:31:46 +0000 nana87 2844045@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I’ll join the pity party! My social circle is really transient and seriously all my close friends have moved. We’ve gotten close to some families through our daycare (I’ve been clAss parent for 2 years now and do my best to organize play dates!) but it’s so hard. And we’ll probably be moving next summer anyway.... but what really gets me is I feel like I’m drifting from my bff. We don’t live in the same place now but usually are able to pick up where we left off, but the last 2 times I’ve been really frustrated. Granted she’s going through a tough time lately career and relationship wise and is too overwhelmed to make much effort... but I feel like the fact that I have kids and she’s single and doesn’t is starting to effect us. Like, she came to visit me and her old (childless) roommate over a weekend and I was totally last priority— she was more interested in going to a party than catching up.. She lives in our hometown and I just came back from visiting— I was there a week and made all the effort to see her, she didn’t even try to see dh, who she is also good friends with, or my kids— and this is someone who I call their ”aunt.” It was just frustrating. I get that she is in a rough patch but it just felt like she didn’t respect that I have responsibilities and couldn’t be available on her schedule completely— like she blew me off for dinner one night when I was able to arrange child care and then thought I could drop my family to join her and people I don’t Even know at a trivia night what? Sorry I’m totally venting— just saying I commiserate! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2844018 Thu, 06 Sep 2018 15:41:15 +0000 Mrsbells 2844018@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Modern Daisy: fingers crossed you make some great connections at the class at church! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2844010 Thu, 06 Sep 2018 14:43:01 +0000 Modern Daisy 2844010@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrsbells: actually we recently moved and joined a new church! Only gone a few times so far but attending a new member class this fall and hope to meet people there. I see my family occasionally but at this point I’m really looking for friends :( </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2844009 Thu, 06 Sep 2018 14:41:09 +0000 Modern Daisy 2844009@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@hellobeeboston: I don’t work out but I belong to a gym and only go on the weekends for the childcare. That’s an excellent idea though! Getting back into yoga would be fun and I bet I’d make friends if I went regularly. Never even occurred to me! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2844007 Thu, 06 Sep 2018 14:39:49 +0000 Modern Daisy 2844007@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@autumnleaves: I would really like to monthly but I’ll settle for quarterly! For example the moms on my text chain are impossible to pin down and put zero effort into seeing each other so the last time we got together was last Christmas! This is despite the fact that I’ve invited them over many times and tried hard to get a date on the calendar. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2843969 Thu, 06 Sep 2018 11:53:04 +0000 Mrsbells 2843969@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Modern Daisy: sorry you feel this way, are you religious at all? Some of my lasting friendships have been made at church or church related events. I will say though that as I have gotten older I am more a person that rather do things with just my immediate family, over time I dont look forward to regularly hanging out with friends because work keeps me so busy I rather focus my free time on my family. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2843968 Thu, 06 Sep 2018 11:46:03 +0000 hellobeeboston 2843968@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Do you work out by any chance?? I feel like most of the groups of friends I know/met at this stage are through various gyms/exercise classes. I have a mom crew that I vaguely knew through a daycare we dropped out of a few years ago. I threw out the idea of the moms coming to a $5 barre class on Wednesdays, and we started doing it every week, and often go to a bar after barre ;) and its stuck for over a year now and we all tend to hang out with the familes too.</p> <p>A few of my other good friends found their group of friends this way too. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2843966 Thu, 06 Sep 2018 11:42:29 +0000 autumnleaves 2843966@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Modern Daisy: how often do you want to meet up with friends - monthly, quarterly, etc? I have been feeling like I am losing friends now too that we are not all in the same stage and are kids are not the same age or we live across town.<br /> I am part of a monthly GNO group but I don't feel connected with them like I used to be - part of it is the group has grown so much and another part is it is hard for me to leave my house after I come home from work.<br /> I would rather connect with 1-2 friends than a larger group so I am trying to schedule quarterly get togethers with some old friends from working out and monthly get togethers with coworkers/former coworkers. And then there are a handful of people I just text and see or talk to once a year either because they are out of state or it just seems impossible to get together.<br /> I was hoping to make friends through my son at daycare but that has not happened yet. I see it happening for other families not necessarily at the daycare I am at though.<br /> If we move, we would like to move to a neighborhood with more families to possibly connect with - I think if the neighborhood has amenities or a park that helps. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2843959 Thu, 06 Sep 2018 11:05:33 +0000 snowjewelz 2843959@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>You are not alone :heart: </p> <p>I think even with family and friends, sometimes I STILL feel isolated. I def rely a lot on online communities like this one! </p> <p>You can try searching for a local babywearing group (even if you don't or no longer babywear). Out of all the local mom groups, the babywearing group I belong to have the kindest moms, and they meet up and do stuff. Another group I am in where people actually meet up is Hike It Baby. </p> <p>You can also see if there's a local MOPS group. I think they are religion affiliated but specifically geared for SAHMs. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2843958 Thu, 06 Sep 2018 11:04:34 +0000 Adira 2843958@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I would say that I have two really good friends. We don't get together super regularly, but try to get together every few months, or do bigger events together. But I've been friends with them since college. For one of them, it did kind of fade a little when I had my first, but then she had her first around the same time I had my second, so now we'll get together for play dates.</p> <p>One of my friends lives really close - so we'll get together with our kids for breakfast on the weekend. Or after bedtime, we'll go out for a drink or just hang out at the other's house. And we always get together for our kids' birthdays.</p> <p>And then my other friend, we have a standing summer weekend together to bring our kids to an amusement park. And we're going on a Disney Cruise together next year. And then we'll get together every couple months for a play date with our kids.</p> <p>It's hard when you both have families, but you just try to find a time and make it a priority. But that's certainly easier with already existing friends, at least in my experience. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2843956 Thu, 06 Sep 2018 10:46:27 +0000 looch 2843956@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Modern Daisy: That's too bad about there not being a parent organization, as I would bet a lot of people probably are looking for something like that. </p> <p>My brother is SN and the parents of his friends are for sure our family friends too. It's an important network for my parents.</p> <p>I am actively looking to expand my network of friends and am planning to join the Y this winter in order to do that. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2843954 Thu, 06 Sep 2018 10:44:42 +0000 Modern Daisy 2843954@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Foodnerd81: oh yes I totally get it and I would be in your shoes if I stayed home. If you can’t see your WOH friends because of schedules you grow apart though which is what I’m facing now. Weekends are now way too busy with sports and activity and this summer everyone was on vacation except for us which def made it feel worse. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2843952 Thu, 06 Sep 2018 10:41:50 +0000 Modern Daisy 2843952@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Carrot: yeah I hear you on all those things being big obstacles to making friends! I’ve never been popular and I’m usually the friend who gets left out or dropped and I’ve never really understood why. I wish there was a life coach or someone who could explain it to me and help avoid it next time, ha! I have similar worries for my son since he has SN and his behaviors are very annoying to most potential friends. Right now he’s too young for it to really take affect but we are t far from kids being able to choose to exclude him. Pity party for 2!! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2843949 Thu, 06 Sep 2018 10:33:23 +0000 Modern Daisy 2843949@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Ajsmommy: well if you are in southeastern PA maybe we can start our own Mom group - ha! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2843948 Thu, 06 Sep 2018 10:32:45 +0000 Foodnerd81 2843948@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I have a few friends who I feel close with, but in reality 90% of our interactions are texting! It’s just hard to find times when everyone can meet with kids and schedules and their obligations, but we keep a running text chain going which makes it feel like we are still real friends. It helps a lot! </p> <p>But honestly, I don’t know how WOH moms make time to hang out! Most of the time I see my friends is play dates with our kids because we stay at home. I’m very very happy to meet up with my friends who work out of the home, but it’s just the time is so much more limited that we can’t do it nearly as often as anyone would like. I promise I’m not trying to exclude working parents, it’s just that stay at home parents often need to fill the time with play dates and such. </p> <p>Do you have any friends with kids who live close enough to meet up with in the evenings? My neighbors work 9-5 but we often just hang out on the backyard after work and before dinner. The kids get to run around and play and we get to get to know each other and have adult interaction on a regular basis (I’m a sahm and they both work from home, so not so much adult talk for them either).</p> <p>ETA: my point is, stay at home parents are just trying to stay sane with our weekday play dates. But also I always assume most people are doing family things on the weekends. DH golfs a lot so I usually end up feeling like I have no one to hang out with then, since I think they are doing stuff as a family, but I’m reality there are probably a lot of others making the same wrong assumption. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2843947 Thu, 06 Sep 2018 10:32:42 +0000 Modern Daisy 2843947@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@skinnycow: yes! This is the exact problem I had with a Mom group I joined 3 years ago (that is still going strong today). I was taking some time off work and starting to get close to them but once I went back the invitations stopped. I still hand out with 2 of them occasionally but don’t get invited to the larger holiday parties (Friendsgiving etc.). They all meet up during the daytime while I’m at work and bond regularly so when a dinner gets planned I’m left out since I’m not really part of the core group. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/feeling-isolated#post-2843946 Thu, 06 Sep 2018 10:32:10 +0000 Mrs. Carrot 2843946@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I am so with you (and honestly, this is my biggest worry in general). I've never made friends easily, and I don't seem to connect with people as well as others (never quite understood why, honestly), and like @ajsmommy, I often end up getting dropped from groups I do form. We live in a super transient area (DC) so I lost a few parent friends I made early on because many tend to move once kids get school age. I work in a pretty young industry so not a lot of people at my stage of life around me. I'm hoping to make some connections now that we're in elementary school, but our school is very heavy on a few ethnic communities that tend to cluster together for language and cultural reasons, and I'm not sure if I'll be able to break that barrier. It really sucks, and I feel bad for LO, who's super social and an only child and I feel like I'm not giving her enough opportunities to socialize outside of school. No advice, just total commiseration. </p>