https://boards.hellobee.com/ Pregnancy, Baby and Parenting blog, by Hellobee en Fri, 24 Apr 2026 19:34:51 +0000 https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1237056 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:28:22 +0000 Mrs. Twine 1237056@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@sotofamilia: I wanted Waldorf SO bad for Ellie. The nearest is three hours away. I would have homeschooled and done Waldorf, but we were worried about socialization and Ellie needs that very much.<br /> @FarmWifeGina: If the interest is there it's all very much downhill work. Any time I've ever tried to fight Ellie to get her to the level her peers were at it has backfired on me. And then pretty soon she'd be ready and it would take no time at all. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1237047 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:25:29 +0000 sotofamilia 1237047@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@FarmWifeGina: pfft, maybe I'm crazy, but I went to a Waldorf school and didn't learn to read until I was seven and ready. I hope to provide the same learning environment for my son. The thought of drilling my three year old so he can start reading early is so ridiculous to me...he will read. Everybody reads eventually. Why the hurry? </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1237041 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:22:53 +0000 FarmWifeGina 1237041@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Twine: Yes, catching the wave of interest and riding it, that's an excellent way of putting it and the way I feel would be best too. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1237030 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:19:25 +0000 FarmWifeGina 1237030@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@wonderstruck: Baha, no, I knew what you meant. </p> <p>@char54: I have a friend who's kid repeated kindergarten, although I don't know the situation was, if that was simply their choice as parents or what (the kid is 14 now), but at the same time, the school principle told me they try to have their kids with IEPs up to snuff by the 3rd grade, that's the goal. So I will have to ask for more details. But he is a kid who gets frustrated easily by things he doesn't understand and I don't want him to have the same school experience as DH, who struggled a lot in school and totally fell through the cracks, didn't get special help, and once he was snowed under halfway through every year, he just gave up. So I don't want our kid dealing with unnecessary pressure, while at the same time making sure he gets any help he actually needs. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1237027 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:18:05 +0000 Mrs. Twine 1237027@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@mrbee: Ellie didn't know the song (not in it's entirety) at that age, either.</p> <p>Lorelei "knows" a lot for her age, but, again, we are following her cues. If she is interested in something and picks it up, that, in my mind, is very different than doing flashcards or drilling it. So through play, and household activities, and reading, she has picked up words like, "oviparous," "prehensile," "deciduous," etc. and her colors and counting and the alphabet and some letter recognition, but we never set out to teach her those things, we just followed interests. I think in the early years low-key is the way to go, all the way. :) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1237013 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:13:42 +0000 Mrs. Twine 1237013@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I will rant and rave about this, if you really want me to. ;) They have changed. I don't think for the better. We purposely put Ellie in a private school for K because it wasn't as "academic," but it was still more pushy about that stuff than we would have liked in an ideal world. Almost all of the educators who have worked with Ellie are very surprised at how well she does academically considering some of her "handicaps." And I strongly feel that a broad background, lots of reading, lots of play, delaying and moderating the use of media (other than print), and involved caregivers have allowed her that success. We did not push early reading, and she was not interested. Now, in public school first grade she is one of the better readers in her class and reading well above grade level. I also feel that catching the wave of interest and riding that takes you lots farther. So, when she wanted to be able to read, she made amazing progress stunningly fast.<br /> @loveisstrange: cited a good study, and there are many more like it. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1237006 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:11:08 +0000 mrbee 1237006@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I do think the goalposts have moved quite a bit! A lot of the two year olds in my daughter's daycare know the alphabet song... our daughter is one of the exceptions! (She's not there yet.) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1236993 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:06:27 +0000 loveisstrange 1236993@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>The University of Cambridge actually just did a study relevant to this. I found it very interesting.</p> <p><a href="http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/discussion/school-starting-age-the-evidence" rel="nofollow">http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/discussion/school-starting-age-the-evidence</a> </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1236982 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:00:57 +0000 wonderstruck 1236982@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@FarmWifeGina: I'm sorry, I didn't mean that at all! Just that it was stuff we worked on earlier in my school district. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1236975 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:58:34 +0000 Charm54 1236975@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I'm an early educator and I totally get what you're saying about our expectations having changed. Kindergartn has switched from a play based curriculum to much more academic. </p> <p>In my district we recognize that when kids are that young, some just aren't ready to jump into an academic curriculum right away and they might take longer to learn to read, write etc. We generally don't worry too much, or explore individual education plans (unless there are other mitigating factors) until the end of second grade. We see the K, 1 and 2 years as a continuum and introduction to school life....literacy instruction is highly differentiated and individualized at this stage for each student regardless of ability level. By the end of 2nd grade there is usually a much clearer picture of any potential learning disabilities.</p> <p>I'd ask your school what their beliefs, policies are on early childhood education. If a child doesn't meet end of year expectations do they have to repeat a grade (which I'm generally very wary of) or will they be given extra individualized support in first grade to meet his goals? </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1236897 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:30:58 +0000 Honeybee 1236897@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@FarmWifeGina: Yep, the school and parents can decide to move a kid up or down in grade level depending on their needs. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1236858 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:20:10 +0000 FarmWifeGina 1236858@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@wonderstruck: Lol, so maybe DH and I were just slow. Although, most of the other parents in this kindy prep class were commenting that this was all 1st grade stuff for them too, back in the day. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1236822 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:09:08 +0000 wonderstruck 1236822@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Although the goal posts are always changing (though we are still far behind other countries on our educational goals for kids), I really don't think it's a change for a 5 year old to be learning to read. I attended a public school, and honestly it wasn't even a good one, and at the beginning of kindergarten we were working on letter sounds, and of course that also meant learning to recognize the letters for the kids who may have not had that down yet, By the end of kindergarten it was a pretty basic expectation for us to be able to read and sound out simple words. That's just my experience, but I guess all I'm saying is that I don't think their expectations are crazy or out of line. My mom is an elementary school teacher, and was during that time as well, and although I know she would agree that goal posts have changed a lot, I don't think that is one that has moved very much. Not in my state, at least.</p> <p>That being said, obviously every kid is different and it's not that unusual for a child to need extra help. It's sounds like you're trying your best to help him get where he should be, and it's great that he's in head start. I would probably ask his teachers to meet with you so that you can discuss where he can use some extra help if you haven't done that yet, but I wouldn't worry too much about tracing letters or anything. You said you like reading, and that is really a GREAT thing that can help him so much! I would just read to him, and as you're reading you can start pointing out and asking him about certain letters. I have a 3 year old nephew who loves finding the letter T everywhere because he knows that is the letter his name starts with! Stuff like that is really helpful at his age.</p> <p>And don't worry too much either - you have 9 months to work on this, and at his age I'm sure you know what a difference 9 months can make! Don't spend it with both of you in tears, just try to get a little bit creative and find ways to work on recognizing letters in his everyday life and activities. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1236819 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:08:25 +0000 FarmWifeGina 1236819@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Honeybee: Oh, they can move up a grade like that? Guess we'll wait until the end of this school year and see how he's doing, but the sound of that option gives me hope! I had some serious homeschooler social issues, so social stuff is a big concern to me, I don't want him to be the big, "dumb" kid in his class and a year behind the other kids his age, but I would be fine with something like that happening! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1236796 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:03:06 +0000 Honeybee 1236796@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@FarmWifeGina: :) For what it's worth, my nephew was totally not interested in reading/writing/etc... at 4, either. He was always outside and super active. My sister held him back, so he went into Kindergarten at 6, and now he's at the top of his class! He learned to read in the first couple months of Kindergarten, and then immediately got moved up to first grade. Now he's in second grade and at the top of his class! Every kid is different, and some are just not ready until later. As long as you keep trying and addressing his issues individually, I'm sure he'll do just fine. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1236762 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 14:56:25 +0000 FarmWifeGina 1236762@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Honeybee: Yeah, we are just working on trying to recognize and write a few letters (3 by the end of this period or whatever) and it's slow, frustrating progress. He's spacey like both of his parents, lol, and doesn't understand the end goal or why it's important, so has no interest. It's just this thing Mom keeps bugging him about every time we read instead of just getting on with the story! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1236748 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 14:53:04 +0000 FarmWifeGina 1236748@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@looch: Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. </p> <p>@T.H.O.U.: I have no idea whether he has strong critical thinking skills yet or not. His skills revolve around building block structures, running, climbing, playing with his puppies, driving cars and trucks and tractors and decidedly NOT sitting and coloring or drawing, lol. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1236741 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 14:52:06 +0000 Honeybee 1236741@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@FarmWifeGina: If he's already on an IEP, it sounds like you're on the right track! It can be totally overwhelming to look at those requirements all at once, though. Maybe, instead, you can tackle one thing at a time? For example, we're concentrating on spelling/writing DD's name right now. We sing a song that spells her name, we practice writing it on every holiday card/crayon drawing/painting she makes, we practice typing it on the computer, etc... I think focusing on just this one task right now makes it feel more attainable and less overwhelming, and I hope all this extra practice with her name will lead into spelling/writing/reading more words! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1236727 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 14:46:41 +0000 FarmWifeGina 1236727@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Honeybee: Yes, that's the extra help he's getting on top of Head Start. He gets about an hour of one-on-one time with the early education special ed teacher. But the extra pressure seems unnecessary EXCEPT for the fact that the expectations have changed. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1236715 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 14:42:59 +0000 T.H.O.U. 1236715@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Just one comment about Common Core. The "goal posts" have moved a lot since we started kindergarten. That has happened slowly over many years. Most states have had education standards for many years and "Common Core" usually isn't that far of a leap from what is already in place.</p> <p>Also, Common Core is intended to actually encourage more critical thinking rather than basic memorization. If your son has these characteristics, chances are he will pick up the content just fine. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1236711 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 14:41:11 +0000 Honeybee 1236711@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>The requirements have definitely changed since we were kids!</p> <p>Having said that, if your son is attending Head Start and has a delay (even an unidentified one), I would ask your Head Start teachers and the school district about getting him on an Individualized Education Plan (IEP). Kids with certain developmental delays and disabilities are not always ready for the same learning activities as their peers, but that doesn't mean he has to be held back. An IEP would address his delays and get him the individual attention he needs to succeed in school, on time. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1236632 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 14:20:50 +0000 looch 1236632@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I am not an educator, but I do think the goal posts have moved, and not necessarily in the correct direction.</p> <p>If you look at children who are top performers around the world, the ones that are at the top of the heap are the ones that had at least 2 years of play based kindergarten and learned to read later on. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/have-the-goalposts-been-moved#post-1236607 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 14:14:44 +0000 FarmWifeGina 1236607@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Excuse my rambling. I know nothing about early childhood education or anything of the sort. This is just what I've been feeling since my 4-year-old and I attended a kindergarten prep class a few evenings ago. Basically, I'm feeling insanely panicked because I highly doubt my son's ability to have all of the knowledge he's supposed to have before he goes to kindergarten. He can say his ABCs, but he recognizes very few of the actual letters, never mind write them or know their sounds. Granted, he is in the Head Start program and is receiving extra help on top of that for an "uncategorized delay," so I know he doesn't quite measure up to what's expected of kids his age and we're working to get him up to speed. But on the other hand, it feels like the game has changed and the expectations are entirely different than when my husband and I started school. Neither of us went to kindergarten and didn't learn our letters or sounds or begin to read until 1st grade. Neither of us learned to read until we were 7- a full 2 years after when I'm being told our son should be learning to read his first words. Maybe DH and I were behind our peers and I'm just ignorant, but I'm pretty sure 6-7 used to be the average age for learning these things. Not learning to read until I was 7 didn't seem to hurt me much; I was a voracious reader all through my childhood, reading and comprehending at a high school level by the 5th grade. I always had stacks of encyclopedias and biographies beside my bed. Anyways, all that to say, we're working on all this stuff with my son, I know most kids his age are doing fine with learning their letters and sounds, how to write their names, etc., but my son has NO interest whatsoever. I drill him on recognizing a letter everyday and we're still not too confident about the letter A or the first letter of his name. But my question is, what if he's just not ready to learn this stuff? Kids in our generation weren't expected to know this stuff by this age, why are we pushing him so hard? I dunno. Like I said, this is a ramble, I don't know anything. I'm just worried. Granted, I was homeschooled very poorly (except for the reading, lol) and have a very innate distrust of the public education system and maybe this is just the homeschooler coming out in me, but I don't want to push him until he's ready to learn these subjects. He's on track to go into kindy with the next school year, if we can catch him up by then, but now I'm not sure if maybe we should hold him back a year, even if that means he's the oldest kid in his class (by a lot, his birthday is in the middle of the school year) and wouldn't graduate until he's 19.<br /> It's frustrating me a lot. WHY the push already? What if some kids just aren't ready to learn to read at 5? And I have to admit that the Common Core thing coming along (will be starting in our state next year, I think) makes me extremely uneasy for my kid and his learning style. At the same time, I have a lot of baggage from my own homeschooling years and don't feel equipped in the least to educate him at home- one worksheet of tracing letters generally has us both in tears by the time he's finished. And there is no option for private school here, so all in all, I feel very, very stuck in trying to figure out what's best for my son and his education. Which IS very important to me, I'm just not sure at what price. But it seems like he'd be just fine and on par with his peers if he'd been born 25 years ago. </p>