https://boards.hellobee.com/ Pregnancy, Baby and Parenting blog, by Hellobee en Wed, 22 Apr 2026 01:45:01 +0000 https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2229626 Wed, 08 Jul 2015 03:22:39 +0000 Boogs 2229626@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@bluestriped bee: Whaaat?! Please move here! What area is the site in?</p> <p>I'm personally sad for the kids who won't be allowed a public education because their parents haven't fully educated themselves. </p> <p>To be clear, I'm not saying anti-vaxxers aren't educated. I know some anti-vaxers have done research and made what they feel like is the right choice for them. I also know there are plenty of anti-vaxxers who won't vaccinate based on what others have told them or things they've heard. It makes me sad that this second type of group will be responsible for educating their children. I just feel like it's a disservice to them. And honestly to society, as well. Not everyone is meant to be an educator, and that's okay. I just feel like all children deserve a quality education and I just hope that those that aren't cut out to be educators realize this and decide what is more important for their child -- no vaccines or a good education. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2225767 Thu, 02 Jul 2015 23:06:27 +0000 anbanan15 2225767@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <br /> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2225745 Thu, 02 Jul 2015 22:44:09 +0000 jh524 2225745@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>The deceased women was on immuno suppressing drugs (the common cold could have killed her) with no rash and they found measles in her gut. She could have been recently vaccinated to have measles in her gut for all we know and she could have been exposed by someone shedding after being recently vaccinated.<br /> My older sister got measles from her MMR vaccine and I have many family members who got measles and are alive and well. They also have life long immunity now.<br /> @looch: totally agree about more education about vaccines on both sides. My doctor knows nothing about vaccine ingredients. I asked him and he had no idea what's in them. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2225654 Thu, 02 Jul 2015 21:06:34 +0000 Truth Bombs 2225654@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@lawbee11: thanks for sharing! I think when people choose not to vax they think "my kid is healthy, he can fight off these diseases". But I can't imagine what it must feel like to know that while the person who exposed this woman survived the disease, their choice not to be fully vaccinated lead to the death of another person. There is a responsibility that exists to the general public health. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2225541 Thu, 02 Jul 2015 19:18:18 +0000 lawbee11 2225541@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Scary stuff :bummed: </p> <p><a href="http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2015/07/02/measles_first_us_death_from_the_disease_in_over_a_decade.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2015/07/02/measles_first_us_death_from_the_disease_in_over_a_decade.html</a> </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2224441 Thu, 02 Jul 2015 06:31:46 +0000 looch 2224441@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I think the answer to educating people about vaccines actually begins with children, in schools, but not about vaccines themselves, but the illnesseses they prevent. When I read that people think measels is only a rash on your skin, it tells me that we need better education about the complications of the illness.</p> <p>Regarding autism, I think we still have a long way to go to understand the origins of the disorder. It is a lot more challenging to undo the misinformation, for whatever reason. I think for some parents, it is easier to blame an outside factor rather than consider it to be genetic... I am not talking about the highly functioning people on the spectrum, I am talking about the kids with profound issues (read the Far From the Tree chapter about autisim. It's eye opening). </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2224350 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 23:29:25 +0000 pinkcupcake 2224350@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I am absolutely horrified that anyone would think that vaccines could cause autism. The "doctor" who published that study lost his medical license. </p> <p>Vaccines are not without risk. Very few things in life, and pretty much no medical procedure, is without risk. HOWEVER, the risk that vaccines pose to healthy people is much, much less than the risk of remaining unvaccinated. I chose to vaccinate my daughter not because I just blindly listened to my doctor (although I do trust my doctor very much - after all, she's the one who went to medical school whereas my MD was conferred by Google), but because there's a bigger risk in her remaining unvaccinated. </p> <p>People are so quick to say, "My body, my kid, my choice." Yeah, but YOUR CHOICE AFFECTS MY CHILD. I have no problem with the government setting reasonable requirements to protect the health and safety of the public. </p> <p>GO CALIFORNIA!</p> <p>/Rant over. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2224264 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 20:22:55 +0000 coopsmama 2224264@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Maysprout: YES! I am always shocked by how little the MD's I have been around seem to know about vaccines. It's crazy! I recently was talking with my kids' old care provider (and full disclosure - my kids have been on a delayed schedule and are not caught up) and was discussing the next step for getting caught up and the doctor recommended something that was completely contrary to what the CDC recommends and states as being appropriate. She even wrote it down so I was able to verify the incorrect information at home on the CDC website. </p> <p>That was the last straw for me. We recently found a new ped that actually knows her stuff and was able to devise a good plan which thrilled me. The last 3 doctors I have talked to about vaccines have either been (1) wrong about factual info, (2) just unable to answer my questions/referred me to a handout instead of being able to engage personally or (3) blew me off entirely. That's not a good track record - only one of four was able to articulate factual information and answer my questions! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2224251 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 20:04:34 +0000 Maysprout 2224251@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Jess1483: most people do take their children to health care providers for well checks and sick visits so there is some level of trust. I do think physicians need better education about vaccines so they can communicate more confidently and effectively when asked questions. </p> <p><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3480952/#" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3480952/#</a>!po=0.340136<br /> <a href="http://www.racgp.org.au/afp/2014/october/a-positive-approach-to-parents-with-concerns-about-vaccination-for-the-family-physician" rel="nofollow">http://www.racgp.org.au/afp/2014/october/a-positive-approach-to-parents-with-concerns-about-vaccination-for-the-family-physician</a> </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2224241 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 19:58:04 +0000 yoursilverlining 2224241@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Jess1483: agreed about education being hard to impossible. When people have themselves absolutely convinced that their Google, MD degree is not only equivalent, but better than 4 years of undergrad, 3 years of medical school, years of additional time specializing, in residency and practice (either as a doctor, or a researcher), coupled with fantasticly face-palm worthy studies like those showing that nearly half of all Americans believe people and dinosaurs lived at the same time and only 75% of us know we gained our independence from GB (roughly the same % who understand that the earth revolves around the sun, not vice versa)....frankly, I have little hope for education changing anyone's mind. People that still think vaccines cause autism don't want to be educated; they want to find what reinforces their beliefs. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2224224 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 19:23:27 +0000 ninja 2224224@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@sorrycharlie: agreed. I have a awesome cousin, who happens to be autistic. The fact that anti-vaxxers even try to use autism as a reason not to vaccinate against diseases that cause DEATH is so offensive to me, as if having an autistic kid is worse than your kid dying. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2224215 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 19:19:05 +0000 Jess1483 2224215@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Maysprout: I agree. There may be other approaches that work, but no one seems to have found them yet. So we could advocate for more education, and I sincerely hope the law is implemented with some educational initiatives, but I think many anti-vax parents wouldn't listen. Many believe there's a conspiracy or that the doctors are in it for the money, so why would they trust those doctors to educate them? (I'm not claiming that's true for all anti-vaxxers). </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2224210 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 19:09:02 +0000 Maysprout 2224210@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Jess1483: none of those address concerns about vaccines. Showing parents pictures of kids with measles and handing parents pamphlets about measles as a disease is not addressing education about vaccines. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2224202 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 18:50:04 +0000 Jess1483 2224202@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs Green Grass: The problem is no one can find an education method that works.</p> <p><a href="http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/02/25/peds.2013-2365" rel="nofollow">http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/02/25/peds.2013-2365</a> </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2224201 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 18:47:55 +0000 sorrycharlie 2224201@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Miss Ariel: @Fannymae: I have ILs that are JW and they vaccinate. :) not sure if all do, but thankfully they do!</p> <p>--</p> <p>I can't even with the autism argument. Not only has the link been disproven but it's incredibly insulting to the parents and loved ones of children with autism, as though they and their children are faulty. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2224151 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 17:11:07 +0000 Mrs Green Grass 2224151@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I read a great post on FB by the Progressive Parent that basically says they wish the state had pursued better educational initiatives first. That's exactly my thought. And this thread proves that it's so necessary. The law will just entrench people more. Although it's also possible we won't even be talking about it at all in 10 years... </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2223829 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 12:27:30 +0000 Pepper 2223829@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@photojane: Agreed!</p> <p>I am really surprised that people still think vaccines cause Autism. All because of one fraudulent study conducted by a doctor who no longer has a medical license.</p> <p><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136032/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136032/</a><br /> <a href="http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism/</a><br /> <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/02/us/a-discredited-vaccine-studys-continuing-impact-on-public-health.html?_r=0" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/02/us/a-discredited-vaccine-studys-continuing-impact-on-public-health.html?_r=0</a></p> <p>Here's my two cents: Any "risk" associated with vaccines pales in comparison to the risk associated with not protecting children against life threatening illnesses. Yes, in an immunocompromised child, measles can be life threatening. Yes, in a newborn, measles can be life threatening. These children can't receive some/any vaccines. They rely on us to protect them. Even in healthy kids, measles can cause Pneumonia, deafness, brain damage (<a href="http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/measles/fs-parents.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/measles/fs-parents.html</a>). It's better to avoid getting measles, long story short. Which is why I am grateful that we have a vaccine for it, along with all of the other vaccines that protect us from even more serious diseases. This is also why I am hoping similar measures to the one in California pass elsewhere.</p> <p>@shortcake: Thank you for this! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2223688 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 11:01:50 +0000 Maysprout 2223688@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I'm torn on this. I'm very pro-vaccine However I'm not sure how effective this measure will be. In Europe differences between mandatory and recommended vaccines don't show much difference in population coverage. It will be interesting to see if this can get coverage above 95% but my guess is that this ruling will be ineffective at increasing vaccination coverage to a level that matters. I would've liked to see more community outreach and public forums with health professionals answering people's concerns. A pediatricians appointment isn't the best place for someone with long and detailed concerns to get their questions answered.<br /> I think it's perfectly reasonable for people to question what goes into vaccines and it's also perfectly logical for people to not accept we're the government we're doctors just trust us. So I guess I'm disappointed that more community out reach was not explored and experimented with, I think those are more likely to succeed.</p> <p><a href="http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=20183" rel="nofollow">http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=20183</a> </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2223683 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 10:59:34 +0000 mrscobee 2223683@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@jh524: I am not going to profess to know anything about whether vaccines cause autism or much about vaccines in general, but my mother works in the field (autism), and while they definitely don't know what causes it, they lean toward complex genetic factors. Additionally, there is a hyper awareness of autism now that did not exist even 10 years ago, which causes many to be diagnosed with autism, when those same individuals would not have been before... I'm not saying that rates haven't gone up, but there is a lot of disagreement about whether they have, and if so, by how much (if 1 in 42 is diagnosed, it only takes a couple questionable diagnoses to throw the number this high). I don't think the "vaccines causes autism" is at all substantiated. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2223670 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 10:47:42 +0000 MamaG 2223670@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@MrsSCB: I reminded him that Jennifer McCarthy is not a scientist or a medical professional and we probably shouldn't be following her thoughts on either of those topics. Leave her to do entertaining :) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2223649 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 10:17:57 +0000 MrsSCB 2223649@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@MamaG: Did you tell him, "That would be none of them." ;-)</p> <p>I can see how someone could look at a list of vaccine ingredients and feel nervous about it. But that's why I trust doctors to tell me whether something medical is safe -- because I don't feel I have the knowledge to make a truly educated decision about vaccine ingredients, no matter how much I read. I would say, though, it's important to remember that just because a particular ingredient is dangerous in certain quantities doesn't mean it will necessarily be dangerous in smaller quantities. Basically what @shortcake: was referring to regarding the fact that we already encounter aluminum every day. Even water is toxic if you drink too much. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2223637 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 10:03:35 +0000 MamaG 2223637@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@photojane: Yes, unfortunately! I was just sharing this topic with someone at work yesterday who is mostly pro-vaxx. And his response was "even the vaxx that causes autism? Which one is that again?" And this is someone that I generally regard as intelligent. </p> <p>Unfortunately American media didn't quite report with the same level of sensationalism when that theory went down the gutter. :meh: </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2223629 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 09:52:28 +0000 photojane 2223629@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Wait, there are still people that believe vaccines cause autism? Someone tell me I read that wrong. :meh: </p> <p>I'd be happy to see this happen in Virginia. I'm a small-government, states rights conservative, and I support this law. I don't see it as choice taken, but protection given. I don't want my own kid to get an infectious disease, but more importantly, I want those sweet immunocompromised babies protected. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2223587 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 09:02:25 +0000 shortcake 2223587@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@JH524: I have done research into vaccine ingredients and I am informed about dosing. For example, I know that there is more aluminum in the atmosphere, in our food, our water and other everyday material that we ingest and absorb to no ill affect. So unless you propose we stop breathing the air, you will have aluminum in your body. </p> <p> So how much aluminum is in vaccines? Why is it even used?</p> <p> Some vaccines only use parts of bacteria or viruses, rather than the whole thing. Because of this, large amounts of those parts are required to generate an immune response strong enough to produce immunity. That is, unless an adjuvant is used. An adjuvant is something that is added to a vaccine to boost the immune response, meaning that less of the antigens (those bits and pieces of bacteria and viruses) is required. In adjuvanted vaccines, the antigens are essentially stuck onto aluminum hydroxide or aluminum phosphate (aluminum salts). The aluminum salt serves a few primary roles. First, it gets the immune system's attention. First-responder phagocytes at the injection site will binge on some of the aluminum until they die from overeating, releasing particles that signal cell damage. The next line of phagocytes encounter all of this and are more likely to signal an inflammatory response, recruiting immune cells to find out what's going on. Second, because it is not very soluble, the aluminum salt stays put at the injections site for a while, preventing the antigens from being swept off into the bloodstream and diluted through the body. Keeping the antigens localized gives the immune system more time to investigate and get to know the antigens so that the next time you're exposed, your immune system knows what to do and how best to respond in order to keep you from getting sick. Finally, although not related to its adjuvant activity, it helps stabilize the vaccine and prevent the antigens from precipitating out of solution and sticking to the side of the container. (Sorry about anthropomorphizing the antigens, but sometimes you just have to.) Using an adjuvant like aluminum hydroxide means that less antigen is needed to produce an immune response. That means a reduction in the side effects caused by the antigen and the ability to produce more doses of vaccine without needing to increase antigen production.</p> <p> The biggest concern about the use of aluminum-based adjuvants is safety. If aluminum is neurotoxic at high, chronic levels of exposure, does that mean it is also neurotoxic at the amounts found in vaccines? The short answer is no. Aluminum salts have been used in vaccines for about 70-80 years. Aluminum adjuvant is not used in any "live" vaccine (MMR, varicella, rotavirus), inactivated polio vaccine (IPV), nor in any influenza vaccine in the U.S. It is used in the following vaccines:</p> <p>Source: Vaccine Education Center,<br /> Children's Hospital of Philadelphia<br /> Notice that no vaccine has more than 0.85 mg of aluminum. This is because Federal regulations (21 CFR 610.15) limits the amount to no more than 0.85 mg per dose. This ensures that even those with renal dysfunction can safely receive an adjuvanted vaccine. This regulatory limit, combined with the slow dissolution of aluminum from the injection site, also ensures that the amount of aluminum received from vaccines is below the minimal risk level.</p> <p> While aluminum vaccine adjuvants do not cause neurological complications, they can cause local adverse reactions. The most common effect is pain and swelling at the injection site. This is generally mild and resolves quickly. In rare cases, it may also result in an allergic reaction to the aluminum and contact dermatitis. </p> <p>In Conclusion</p> <p> Aluminum-based adjuvants in vaccines have been in use for about 80 years, with millions upon millions of doses given. Despite so many years of safe use of these adjuvants, some people still fear them. They imagine that the tiny amounts of aluminum in some vaccines cause serious neurological side effects despite there being no scientific evidence to support that belief. As with other vaccine ingredients, the fear is out of proportion, ignoring the old adage that the dose makes the poison. At low doses, aluminum is very effective at stimulating an immune response to increase the effectiveness of vaccines. We are also exposed to, and take in, aluminum every day. We breathe it in; we drink it; we eat it. At any one time, we have around 30-50 mg of aluminum in our bodies, many times more than is found in any vaccine. At worst, we face local reactions when we get an aluminum-containing vaccine.</p> <p><a href="http://www.enveurope.com/content/23/1/37" rel="nofollow">http://www.enveurope.com/content/23/1/37</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/2015/02/demystifying-vaccine-ingredients-aluminum.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/2015/02/demystifying-vaccine-ingredients-aluminum.html</a> </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2223531 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 08:17:52 +0000 jh524 2223531@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p><a href="http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/b/excipient-table-2.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/b/excipient-table-2.pdf</a> </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2223449 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 06:08:02 +0000 looch 2223449@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I thought this was a good summary of vaccine ingredients and explanations:</p> <p><a href="http://vec.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/vaccine-ingredients/" rel="nofollow">http://vec.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/vaccine-ingredients/</a></p> <p>The above site also has text related to the Wakefield studies. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2223445 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 06:04:18 +0000 FannyMae 2223445@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Miss Ariel: I don't think they are, except for vaccines that may be made with blood products? From what I gather its personal choice on that issue rather than doctrine. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2223442 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 05:54:29 +0000 Miss Ariel 2223442@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <br /><p><i>This comment has been deleted by the original poster.</i></p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2223443 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 05:54:14 +0000 Miss Ariel 2223443@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@FannyMae: I would imagine Jehovah Witnesses are anti-vaccine, but don't know for sure. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/i-want-to-move-to-california/page/3#post-2223419 Wed, 01 Jul 2015 00:55:53 +0000 Kemma 2223419@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@jh524: I believe encephalitis and brain damage are also possible complications of measles. </p>