https://boards.hellobee.com/ Pregnancy, Baby and Parenting blog, by Hellobee en Wed, 29 Apr 2026 05:21:04 +0000 https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees/page/2#post-1761115 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 21:16:19 +0000 Rockies11 1761115@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>My husband and I are both lawyers in a city in Canada. We both make six figures, and I work part time. Although at certain points we both didn't love our bosses, we are happy in our jobs now. We just finished paying off our debt (which was substantial and foolish - we overspent) last week. We have a one year old that I had a long mat leave with. While I don't care for the personalities of many lawyers and think it's a terrible way to truly make a lot of money, it's a satisfying and challenging career for us! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees/page/2#post-1761111 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 21:14:25 +0000 Mae 1761111@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@pinkcupcake: Thats one of the things I hated most about my litigation job. My whole job is (was) dealing with angry people. My clients were angry. The other side was angry. Everyone thinks they're getting screwed. They're all wanting me to be as emotional about their issue as they are (which lets face it, often they're at least partially responsible for). And then they're mad about the realities of litigation and how much that whole process sucks. And if they get sick of it and settle they're pissed. And if they win they think they didn't win enough. And then you have to deal with collecting the judgment. And the client is even more mad because omg we won why didn't I get a check before I left court. Gah. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees/page/2#post-1761107 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 21:13:04 +0000 BlueWolverine 1761107@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I work at a top tier law school and have a JD. First, the numbers in the article are kind of misleading. I can get behind someone making $40,000 right out of law school, but average starting salary is no where near $62K. Working at a big firm doesn't net you only $95K; first years in BigLaw make $160K. That said, first year lawyer salaries are like a reverse bell curve. You've got a bunch of people working low level gov't jobs, small firms, solos, etc. They generally make between $40-$60K. Then you've got the other end of the curve: the BigLaw associates who make $160. Hardly anyone makes the "average" first year lawyer salary. Generally, you're on one end or the other of this reverse bell. </p> <p><a href="http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2012/07/nalp-new-lawyer.html" rel="nofollow">http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2012/07/nalp-new-lawyer.html</a></p> <p>That said, no one should go to law school because they think they'll make a lot of money. You have to do really well at really good law schools (or be well connected) to get the high paying jobs right out of school. Sure, lawyers can certainly build a book of business over time as a solo or small/mid-size firm and do quite well for themselves by the end of their careers, but they're not going to make big bucks for a while, if ever.</p> <p>People should only go to law school if they really want to be lawyers. And they should know what that means before they go (so many don't). </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees/page/2#post-1761103 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 21:11:17 +0000 MrsH 1761103@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@sandy: yes, I find that the more experienced I become the more I stress about it. As a partner the added stress of running a business doesn't help me sleep at night. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees/page/2#post-1761074 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 20:58:19 +0000 sandy 1761074@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@MrsH: two things that stuck out for me that really cemented that I didn't want to make it my life goal to be a partner at a law firm. One partner who was super successful said he wouldn't be a lawyer if he could do it over. He said "we bill for our time and yes your billable rate goes up and you get paid more but ultimately we make more money the more we work." He said he wished he had invented something or wrote a great book and could live off the royalties. Another thing that just really turned me off the law was how all consuming it was - I dreamed about work and would wake up all worked up about something I was working on. And even the old partners said they would wake up in the middle of the night all worked up bc maybe we forgot to include something in our brief, etc...the stress just doesn't end even as you get more experienced </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees/page/2#post-1761066 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 20:55:29 +0000 OsoInGreenAndGold 1761066@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I tell friends not to do it unless they can do it without going into any debt OR they have a job lined up beforehand. I loved law school, and I feel like the way I learned to think will help me in life even without ever pursuing a legal career, but I would HATE myself if I had spent any money on the experience. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees/page/2#post-1761031 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 20:40:42 +0000 pinkcupcake 1761031@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@sandy: every time we have one of these lawyer threads, I feel like you could be my twin :) like you said, I think law tends to attract a certain type of personality. I was always so stressed out dealing with opposing counsel. Some were cordial and professional, but the vast majority were rude, cocky, and just generally awful to work with. I remember how much my stomach would tie up in knots whenever I had to make a phone call or have a mtg. Ugh. I'm so glad I'm out of it. Like you, I did enjoy the research and writing aspect of it, so hopefully one day I can find a job, legal or not, where I can focus on those and where my JD may come in handy. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees/page/2#post-1761025 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 20:36:50 +0000 Sparkler 1761025@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@MrsH: yes, engineer too :grin: I can dream that my kids will actually take any of my advice! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees/page/2#post-1761018 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 20:32:21 +0000 MrsH 1761018@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Sparkler: my recommendation will be engineer with an MBA or veterinarian ;) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees/page/2#post-1761008 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 20:28:30 +0000 Sparkler 1761008@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@MrsH: I won't encourage my LOs to go to law school either. I am lucky to work part time, but it seems so few and far between to have a balance. At least for my daughters, my advice will be MBA, nurse or teacher! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees/page/2#post-1760999 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 20:24:53 +0000 MrsH 1760999@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@sandy: I don't work in a traditional law firm, I enjoy (even love) my job, and I would still probably try and talk my LO out of traditional law if she told me that is what she wanted to do ;) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees#post-1760989 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 20:19:20 +0000 sandy 1760989@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@pinkcupcake: a lot of the same feelings! Not sure if I'll go back to doing contract work where the pay is less but still ok or if I'll be lucky enough to find something else I enjoy.</p> <p>@MrsH: like @pinkcupcake I did not enjoy being an attorney at a traditional law firm and for a lot of the same reasons. It is exhausting working in an adversarial role or for clients who are pissed they are being sued or have to sue..and even if you win in court it can be a battle collecting the judgment. And you often have to work for companies you don't like and don't respect. And I hate to generalize but a lot of people who are attracted to being attorneys are kind if jerks or egomaniacs. I hated billable hours and hated client management. I loved the research and the challenging nature of the job but most often I hated my time at work. I did really like appellate work and also when I did contract work (basically reviewing documents on a multi-million dollar lawsuit which is the type of work we all made fun of in law school but I ended up loving it). I know I could have done a different type of law outside the traditional law firm job but I was just ready to walk away to be a SAHM. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees#post-1760986 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 20:18:13 +0000 Sparkler 1760986@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I think it just depends. A lot of career fields require you to go to grad school and people don't expect big salaries (social work, masters of public health, masters of library science, masters in planning, etc). Law school is an extra year, which is probably unnecessary and adds to the extra debt. I am an attorney and worked in a firm for awhile when I was younger and it appealed to me, but was able to get a well paying in house transactional job with normal hours that I have been able to take part time after kids. I feel fortunate, but I also have worked hard and am good at my job. I know lots of friends in other fields who have the same issues finding jobs as lawyers. I do have debt, but my rate is so low that my monthly payment is comparable with our monthly contributions to our kids college funds.</p> <p>If you goal is to make a lot of money, law is not the field though. Partners in big firms still make no where near hedge fund/private equity and in my experience the hours do not level off for law partners like they do for finance partners. My husband works in finance, has no graduate degree and makes more than big firm lawyers in my area. Even still, I don't regret that I went!</p> <p>I am rambling, but I would never discourage law school if that is your interest. I think pop culture can be misleading regarding lawyers, but with any sort of grad school having a goal when you start can help you to land on your feet and not just a pool of debt. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees#post-1760978 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 20:12:29 +0000 Mrs. Blue 1760978@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I always tell people to think very, very carefully before going to law school and only do it if (1) it is their absolute passion (and I would recommend working at a law firm for a year or two even then to see if reality measures up to the vision in your head), or (2) they can go virtually debt free. DH and I went to a teir 3 school, but had full tuition scholarships. We still have a ton of debt from both of our living expenses for three years. We worked hard and got lucky and were both top 10%, law review, etc. My plan was always to work at a bigger firm for at least four years and knock my debt out quickly. I started at close to big law salary, but DH and I got engaged and he was in a job commitment for several years, so I quit and moved. I had to take a job that started at 54,000 a year. While it has great raises and I'm making pretty good money now, we're 4 years out and no where close to being out debt. It sucks to not feel like you have choices in your career or life because you have such a monumental amount of debt, especially considering that mos if my friends from law school despise their jobs. So, yeah, I say think very carefully... </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees#post-1760930 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 19:46:15 +0000 pinkcupcake 1760930@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@MrsH: There was nothing about it that I enjoyed. I tried several different types of law - admin, criminal, litigation, etc, and I just wasn't happy. I think the biggest thing was that the adversarial nature of the field really got to me after awhile. It was exhausting constantly having to defend or fight... I don't know if that makes any sense, but after awhile, I found myself craving a job where I could just *be*. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees#post-1760905 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 19:30:54 +0000 PurplePeony 1760905@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>The only reason I don't regret law school is that I was super fortunate to get a government job that offers me a great work-life balance for a fair salary. I had other plans when I enrolled but decided early on in 1L that being a traditional lawyer probably wasn't for me so I worked hard to track myself into gov't jobs. It could have seriously backfired...again, I really consider myself lucky. Also, I had a full-tuition scholarship at a solid regional school, usually in the 50-60 range of the rankings, so my debt load was relatively low (basically just from living expenses, books and supplies). I still don't make 6 figures (though I'm getting close) and will pretty much top out salary-wise in a couple years, but that's okay. A lot of my friends work many more hours for less pay. </p> <p>If people tell me they're interested in law school, I tell them to think long and hard about it, read some of these articles, and at least shadow someone who works in the practice area they're interested in. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees#post-1760731 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 17:17:14 +0000 Mae 1760731@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Don't have time to read the article but I'd never tell anyone to go to law school. I graduated in 2008 so most of my friends were lucky to get jobs, but we're at the point where a lot of people are looking to move and it is haaaaard. The job market sucks. The hours suck. Being a lawyer sucks. The pay either sucks or is so not worth it because the only jobs that pay well suck your soul in a thousand different ways. And yea. The loans. SUCK. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees#post-1760710 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 16:53:31 +0000 MrsH 1760710@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@pinkcupcake: fell free to not answer me but why did you hate it? </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees#post-1760670 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 16:27:19 +0000 lawbee11 1760670@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>It would depend on the person and what their undergrad degree was in. I didn't grow up dreaming of going to law school. I got my undergrad degree in Psychology, and a BA in Psyc is pretty useless. So I knew I needed a graduate degree. I originally planned on going into school counseling, but chose law school because school counselors are typically paid poorly. </p> <p>I knew going into law school that I did not want a traditional job at a firm. I think expectations are key. If someone is going to law school purely to be like a lawyer they saw on tv, I would not recommend it (a vast majority of cases settle outside of court). </p> <p>I went to a third tier law school with a scholarship that paid over half of my tuition. The scholarship was key. I still have loans but it could be much worse. DH went to law school on a full ride (they actually paid him a stipend). I would not advise someone to pay $30K+/year for law school unless they've got some serious connections. </p> <p>I also think a lot of people think all JDs are created equal. Not true. You still have to work hard to make good grades. If you slack off and are at the middle/bottom of your class, then yeah, you're going to have a hard time finding a job (unless you have connections). I do have one friend from law school that was at the top and had a hard time, but everyone else at the top found a job easily (I also live in a big city, though). </p> <p>I worked hard, did well, was on law review, and was able to find a great job. It's a non-traditional job, but you do have to be a licensed attorney to work where I do, so I wouldn't have had the opportunity if not for law school. I could make more working at a firm, but I like the work-life balance that my job affords. </p> <p>I don't make six figures, but I make a hell of a lot more than I would in most other jobs that only require a BA in Psychhology. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees#post-1760658 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 16:11:59 +0000 gingerbebe 1760658@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>DH and I are both attorneys. Combined, we graduated with enough loans to buy a really nice new construction single family home. I work in the public sector so my hours and benefits are pretty good, but I make on par with what that article states. I don't particularly enjoy being a lawyer, but DH really does love it. He runs a successful law practice AND teaches business law at the undergraduate level. Between the two of us, we've always held 3 full time jobs and because of my husband's pay, we make decent money - on paper.</p> <p>The first 1.5 years we were married, we made minimal payments but then decided that if I ever wanted a shot at staying home with our kids, the loans had to go. We've spent the last 2 years throwing every spare penny towards our student loans. We splurge on one vacation in the summer and traveling to visit our families over the holidays, but otherwise, we live in a cheap rental, we budget and meal plan, I coupon, and carry no other debt. We live on about 25-30% of our income. We put minimal money towards retirement and we are not buying a house any time soon. We are 33. Looking at us from the outside, I doubt you would ever think we were lawyers.</p> <p>In the last 2-ish years since we got serious, we've paid off about 40% of our student loans. Because our income is higher on paper, we also pay an obscene amount of taxes. Right now, because we're expecting a baby, we're hoping to have everything paid off in 3-4 more years. That will be 7 years total that we will have worked, scrimped, and saved to JUST pay for those degrees. Next we will be stockpiling money for retirement. And then maybe in our 40s we can think of buying a home.</p> <p>I tell everyone who asks me about law school that they should only go if someone else is paying for it or if they really, really love the law. Even going to law school for one year and dropping it out is better in the long run than doing all 3 years and being stuck. DH loved law school, loves being a lawyer, and loves teaching law. But he came out with twice as much debt as I did - and I was always sort of agnostic about the law. I'm good at what I do, but its not worth the debt to me. Honestly, once we pay off my loans, I don't even know if I will want to continue practicing. So much of my feelings towards working in this field have been associated with debt that I see my job like its indentured servanthood. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees#post-1760635 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 15:58:03 +0000 Pirouette 1760635@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Yes, I'd recommend anyone interested in law go to law school! I love my job, I love the challenges, I love what I do. And i love being a professional, and having some control over my hours and stuff. But if your question is would I encourage anyone looking for a lucrative salary to go to law school? No. I wouldn't encourage someone to get a graduate degree just for financial gain, especially if it meant loans. </p> <p>I started my job before the market crash and then got a series of pay cuts and salary freezes over the first few years. But I make a decent salary and have a job I love, so it has worked out well for me. I don't make as much as I could be making, but that's a lifestyle choice. Most of my friends who went to big law have long transferred out of firm life. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees#post-1760627 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 15:55:51 +0000 Mommy Finger 1760627@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>DH is an attorney and considers it a huge mistake. He wishes he would have just gone to grad school to get his MBA instead. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees#post-1760608 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 15:50:48 +0000 pinkcupcake 1760608@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I could go on and on about this forever, but to keep it short- I regret law school (and the loans) so much. I enjoyed the school part so totally thought I would love being a practicing attorney. Nope. Hated it, hated it, hated it. </p> <p>I quit to be a sahm. I'll prob go back to work when my daughter is older, but it won't be law.</p> <p>Eta: I graduated in 07. Those numbers seem very, very (sadly) accurate to me </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees#post-1760600 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 15:48:27 +0000 Sapphiresun 1760600@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Not a lawyer, but I did my undergrad in Criminology so a lot of my friends went on to law school. It seems like a lot of them loved law school, not so much being a lawyer. </p> <p>I imagine it's much like policing, where on TV every episode is essentially something that would be the highlight case of your career... Super awesome to discuss landmark, precedent setting, ground breaking law... not so much to rehash the same old boring contract/divorce eleventy billion times. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees#post-1760588 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 15:43:46 +0000 Meowkers 1760588@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@LindsayInNY: Well that's depressing. :sad: I'm in LA and here those number are not accurate. When all my friends and I graduated from law school, starting salaries at small and medium firms were in the 70 and 80 thousand dollar range. Much more for big firms, (although those were not hiring as much.)</p> <p> Like I said above, the only people I know with the sort of starting salaries mentioned in the article are those in public interest. And I would HOPE that attorneys going into public interest are not practicing law for the money.</p> <p>In any event, this is certainly a tough field to be in regardless of the specific salary in question. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees#post-1760580 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 15:38:12 +0000 LindsayInNY 1760580@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Meowkers: I work in Manhattan and those numbers are accurate. A lot of first year attorney jobs at small and medium-ish sized firms start around $50K.</p> <p>I try to deflect when asked that question... DH and I both have six figures of debt still, 6 years out of school. I would have a hard time surviving if not for his income. He "lucked" out being in a niche field. I was in a "dime a dozen" field and the pay reflected that. I would've been lucky to max my salary out in the low six figures. In Manhattan. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees#post-1760577 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 15:36:14 +0000 Mrs. Detour 1760577@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I'm in BigLaw and like it, but it only works because my spouse has a much lower key job and a ton of schedule autonomy. That said, even with the BigLaw paycheck, paying off two sets of law school loans is rough. We're 3 and 5 years out of school and still saving for a down payment on a house. We both did federal clerkships, and while it was terribly fun and prestigious, looking back I wish I joined my firm sooner just so we'd be further out of debt. </p> <p>For those thinking about law school, I think the value prop works if you can get into a great school, but it gets very tricky not that deep into the rankings. Scholarships are a gamble because on a curve, there is no way to guarantee that you'll keep the required GPA. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees#post-1760571 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 15:33:34 +0000 mrsjazz 1760571@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I am not a lawyer, but I spent almost a decade working for a law school. I wouldn't advise anyone to go to law school unless it was something they felt truly passionate about. Not because they want to make a lot of money, not because they watch a lot of law television shows. </p> <p>If they can only get into a third tier and beyond, I'd say please go back to the drawing board, this is not for you. I worked at a third-tier school. The situation is dismal. Seriously. It's bad. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees#post-1760566 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 15:27:00 +0000 sandy 1760566@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Like lots of professions there is the potential to make a lot if you're at the top of your class and extremely bright but there are many who struggle to find jobs. And not everyone can get a high paying job out of law school. </p> <p>I would definitely tell someone to seriously consider what they would enjoy doing 12-14 hours a day. Also they should go shadow some attorneys in various types of areas to get an idea of what their day is like. Working at the public defenders office is very different than working at a huge law firm which is really different than working at a small firm doing something like personal injury work.</p> <p>There are all kinds of lawyers just like there are all kinds of doctors or engineers. A general practitioner might make $100,000 a year while a skilled surgeon can make two, three or four times that easily...same goes for attorneys. </p> <p>All I know is it's a lot of money and a lot of time to get law degree so it's a not a decision that should be made without a lot of thought and consideration</p> <p>ETA: I graduated in 2004 and things were still pretty good at that time. I worked for 7 years following graduation. At the biggest firms first year associates were making about $125,000 the smaller the firm the salary is usually lower unless it's a highly specialized practice area </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/law-bees#post-1760550 Tue, 15 Jul 2014 15:15:51 +0000 MrsH 1760550@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Meowkers: I live in the Midwest. They seem pretty accurate. </p>