https://boards.hellobee.com/ Pregnancy, Baby and Parenting blog, by Hellobee en Wed, 06 May 2026 05:36:54 +0000 https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2218377 Thu, 25 Jun 2015 12:55:10 +0000 GreenThumb 2218377@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Jacks: Thanks for posting this. We've had 1 LO (FET) and then 3 unsuccessful FETs (2 CPs, 1 failed). We just met with a new RE today who suggested some autoimmune testing for me and I was at least a little familiar with this concept from this thread. Thank you! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2215857 Mon, 22 Jun 2015 22:44:17 +0000 Mrs. Jacks 2215857@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@LovelyPlum: loved seeing you too!!! Can't wait til next time :) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2215842 Mon, 22 Jun 2015 22:13:43 +0000 LovelyPlum 2215842@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Jacks: thank you for this!! I had two in a row, but no immune testing that I know of before conceiving LO. Om convimced that what helped her stick around was a good cleaning via HSG and baby aspirin/progesterone from day 1. If we have trouble TTC #2, I will for sure check it out.</p> <p>(PS-so, so good to see you!! :heart: ) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2215230 Mon, 22 Jun 2015 12:03:03 +0000 Sunshine1810 2215230@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Jacks: I always worry about this issue. I can't get pregnant on my own, and have done 2 fresh rounds of IVF and one FET. I have now had two blighted ovums. The first one I needed a D&amp;C for, and the 2nd I miscarried naturally. My RE also shrugs off the immunology testing but did test me for Lupus, and my levels of Cardiolipin IgG and Cardiolipin IgM. She has the same attitude that the RE's that @raintreebe spoke to.</p> <p>I am always on steroids for a week before/during my transfers, and then go off of them, so sometimes I wonder if that makes things start to go wrong. </p> <p>I know that blighted ovums are most often caused by chromosomal abnormalities, but I still get nervous that it's actually something else with me. DH and I both had chromosomal panels run and they were fine. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2214336 Sat, 20 Jun 2015 18:55:19 +0000 Mrs. Jacks 2214336@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@brownie: definitely had something. It's like I got sick every time. As soon as implantation ceased the response lifted. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2214263 Sat, 20 Jun 2015 14:18:29 +0000 brownie 2214263@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Jacks: did you have any immune responses? I had the two clearly related reactions. With the stuck baby I took Benadryl during the tww and I think that helped. There is a method that uses Benadryl, I think a PPi inhibitor and aspirin. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2214236 Sat, 20 Jun 2015 12:50:11 +0000 Mrs. Jacks 2214236@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@My Only Sunshine: I've heard about that too and wondered if I had it, but after catching so many eggs, some of the better ones should last longer than just implantation. It's hard for the body to know that a tiny ball of cells is malfunctioning at first so chromosomally abnormal eggs develop to 6 weeks when heartbeat would be established, not implantation failure every time... But of course I don't think there is enough data to be sure. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2214231 Sat, 20 Jun 2015 12:37:28 +0000 My Only Sunshine 2214231@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Jacks: This is so interesting. I've had 2 CPs, one miscarriage, and one baby. Not enough to be too worried but enough to have my radar up for things like this. </p> <p>Another interesting thing my OB mentioned briefly to me was a study a few years ago that found some women have "super fertility" and their bodies basically implant embryos really easily, even if they're not viable. Embryos that most women's bodies would have just rejected. So the "super fertile" women end up with more CPs and miscarriages. I don't know the status of that study but the idea has stuck with me. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2214211 Sat, 20 Jun 2015 11:38:19 +0000 2littlepumpkins 2214211@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I don't know anything about this topic specifically but I hate it when you know something's going on and a doctor won't take you seriously. I had symptoms that were not run of the mill and went weeks with a serious infection before being diagnosed. It was scary and frustrating. I don't totally blame the doctor, because I guess in most cases, he'd have been right. But it was frustrating. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2214180 Sat, 20 Jun 2015 09:35:37 +0000 Mrs. Jacks 2214180@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Maysprout: I know I was geeking out on the Bonferroni correction and statistical analysis last night. I'm going to try to pull together my understanding of the DQA1-&gt;NK connection after I sleep today. Right now, I'm going to go home and catch some Z's! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2214179 Sat, 20 Jun 2015 09:33:11 +0000 brownie 2214179@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Maysprout: that is the problem, there is still so much more to learn. Not just blowing women off as crazy or taking their money. And interestingly, I think it occurs more after a first baby. After your body has a taste for it. I didn't have allergic reactions at all until weeks after implantation (then my body went crazy). </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2214152 Sat, 20 Jun 2015 08:14:42 +0000 Maysprout 2214152@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I can see how IVIg could potentially help in some cases of infertility. I just can't think of a way that the father being similar to the mother would cause an immune response especially since mhc II isn't expressed on fetal cells. You can get responses if there's cell death, but there would be a bigger problem then. Potentially the protein could be presented on mhc I but fetal mhc I expression is strange with most not expressed, the fetal ones seem to be mainly there to prevent nk destruction since they'd go after bare cells lacking mhc I. </p> <p>The reason I linked to the paper is it touches on this in the intro and links to some papers that further discuss but it is all fairly speculative, interesting but speculative. The second half of the discussion also has some good discussion and links. And i found it interesting that she brought up geographic differences in findings, which I take to mean this gene is linked to something else that's the potential cause.<br /> Tolerance to the fetus is really interesting and so much isn't known. You kept me up last night reading for a bit. Only big nerds read research papers after wine night to fall asleep. Hope your overnight went well. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2214089 Sat, 20 Jun 2015 00:40:29 +0000 Mrs. Jacks 2214089@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Maysprout: You are more of an immunologist than I am, but in my reading of the paper you posted it seems that they are saying specifically for the South Asian population and that different alleles may play roles in different populations.</p> <p>I read the methods more closely to see why they decided to run a Bonferroni for multiple comparisons. Those statistical methods are something that I'm pretty familiar with... because they did find an association before the correction and the associations were in the predicted directions. In deeper reading, I find it interesting that they dichotomized the variables (easier to run regressions, though) and in my reading of table 1 it looks like the CI does not cross 0 even with the Bonferroni, despite the fact that the p value remains 0.09.... so I'm not sure exactly what is going on there. Doesn't quite make sense. I understand using the correction if they didn't have an a priori hypothesis of the alleles that they ran in the model, but if they had a priori hypotheses, they should be ok without it.</p> <p>As I understood it (and again, not an immunologist... just trying to play one for the sake of learning about recurrent chemical pregnancies) homology of HLA DQA1 leads to increased activity of NK cells through specific signaling pathways. There is a hypothesis that one of the putative mechanisms (and I know I'm way oversimplifying here) of IVIG's activity in RPL is to suppress NK cell activity. So maybe that is why it has an effect? </p> <p>Correct me if I'm wrong here, since this is all me reflecting back to grad school and med school and a lot has changed in the immuno world since then! My understanding may be way too simplistic. It just seems like it fit together in the way I'm understanding it... especially when I looked into the immune modulating med that I used to take and found that it down regulated IL17 and IL 10. It was almost too tidy.</p> <p><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3455429/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3455429/</a></p> <p>:) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2214087 Sat, 20 Jun 2015 00:03:58 +0000 Maysprout 2214087@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Jacks: I did look at the paper but the use of IVIg was talked about in reference to anti phospholipid antibodies not HLA DQ. </p> <p>This paper I thought gave a fair overview of the divide in what research has found with HLA similarities. There seems to be as many studies that found no connection.<br /> <a href="http://m.humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/26/4/765.long?view=long&#038;pmid=21325036" rel="nofollow">http://m.humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/26/4/765.long?view=long&#038;pmid=21325036</a> </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2214079 Fri, 19 Jun 2015 23:40:13 +0000 Mrs. Jacks 2214079@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Maysprout: there is a method. It's in the paper that I linked. I can look it up again later, but I'm on call in the hospital right now :) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2214073 Fri, 19 Jun 2015 23:14:44 +0000 Maysprout 2214073@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>How would IVIG help? HLA DQ is not expressed on fetal cells. Is there a method proposed? </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2213985 Fri, 19 Jun 2015 20:01:32 +0000 brownie 2213985@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Jacks: exactly. I was told there was no way my reactions were related. Just take Benadryl. I accepted that the first time but after the second it was to coincidental. Reaction (that I had never had before) a And then loss. But they still wouldn't acknowledge it. There are a few res that do care. One guy in Las Vegas would do testing and intervention.</p> <p>But we ultimately went a different way. So we didn't need all of that. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2213983 Fri, 19 Jun 2015 19:59:03 +0000 MrsMccarthy 2213983@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Wow this is so fascinating and I hope it can be addressed and potentially help some women dealing with recurrent loss. I am so sorry to you for your losses as well. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2213964 Fri, 19 Jun 2015 19:27:51 +0000 Mrs. Jacks 2213964@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@brownie: good for you. I understand that feeling so well. Great early start then complete meltdown at implantation. It was so disheartening to not be taken seriously. "Oh you are just old..." Then why am I catching eggs every month? </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2213923 Fri, 19 Jun 2015 18:43:15 +0000 brownie 2213923@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Jacks: That was about two years ago when we went through that process. We now have a second child. </p> <p>I was just literally allergic to implantation. We fired our re because he minimized that so much. I know what happened to me. I refused to go to an re that just wanted my money and wouldn't listen to me. So it took a while to move forward. Nearly a year of me searching for answers because I wasn't going to sink the money into it if there wasn't a chance of success. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2213880 Fri, 19 Jun 2015 17:50:40 +0000 Kimberlybee 2213880@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Knowledge is power and there really is so much more to be discovered! Thanks for sharing. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2213875 Fri, 19 Jun 2015 17:39:50 +0000 Mrs. Jacks 2213875@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@brownie: I don't know where you are at with your process? I haven't stayed up to date and I'm sorry for that. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2213851 Fri, 19 Jun 2015 17:02:28 +0000 brownie 2213851@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I absolutely believe it makes a difference and believe it is the roots of our problems. We have make factor so we have to do ivf and ICSI. We successfully had my son on the first shot. Two fets were chemical losses. I had an allergic reaction with both at implantation. Specifically for the second, I had swollen fingers and the next day got a positive and lost it days later.</p> <p>I went to a reproductive immunologist because that was too coincidental. We had a couple of issues and ivig was recommended but we would have had to do a completely new cycle and costs were up immensely. We went in another direction completely. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2213761 Fri, 19 Jun 2015 15:20:37 +0000 sarac 2213761@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Jacks: It's such a wide open, brand new field - of course most practitioners aren't going to be highly knowledgeable about it. How could they be? But it is awfully disappointing to hear about REs actively discouraging their patients from seeking out further information. Same old same old, people want to protect the knowledge and processes and revenue streams they already have.</p> <p>That article you posted is fascinating. Long story short, we don't understand the reason behind many (most?) miscarriages, and this is likely just another piece of that information puzzle. How interesting that it fits into your personal experience so well, too. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2213681 Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:12:13 +0000 GoGoSnoGirl 2213681@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Fascinating! I love that the HB community is full of lots of smart people! :heart: :happy: </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2213678 Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:10:13 +0000 lemondrop 2213678@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Immunology is so fascinating! Chemicals suck, I hope this helps some families grow. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2213671 Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:03:39 +0000 SugarplumsMom 2213671@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Jacks: Thank you for sharing. I know someone that would truly appreciate this info :heart: </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2213669 Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:02:30 +0000 Mrs. Jacks 2213669@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Some light reading:<br /> <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK6615/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK6615/</a> </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2213655 Fri, 19 Jun 2015 13:49:03 +0000 Mrs. Jacks 2213655@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@raintreebee: I went straight to the literature and found what I found. People in Europe are having some success with intralipids, steroids and IVIG. </p> <p>I am skeptical when REs say "this isn't real" because they have a vested interest in doing very expensive IVF. For me, I get pregnant very easily, but it peters out right after implantation. At that point the major process going on is an immunologic one that helps the uterus sort out whether this is a foreign invader vs pregnancy vs self. </p> <p>In my case when I was on an immune modulating drug that also happens to regulate IL17 and IL10, I had a successful pregnancy. When I no longer took the med, I couldn't carry longer than five weeks except once. That's most likely uterine problems (which I don't have) or immunologic. </p> <p>So those IVF docs can be as skeptical as they want because this cuts into their bottom line, but for me, I was able to read the theory, look at the actual DNA sequencing and found a consistent correlation. Could be coincidence, but I don't think so.</p> <p>And who knows if IVIG or steroids or intralipids would have worked for me. That ship has sailed... But it would have been nice to identify supportive providers who are willing to explore or refer for repro immunology. It's early in the field, but it looks very promising. (And yeah, it really hurts to not understand what is going on).</p> <p>I really wrote this post for those bees who might be having recurrent chemicals and not know that these were possible causes. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/multiple-chemical-pregnancies#post-2213637 Fri, 19 Jun 2015 13:38:38 +0000 Mrs. Jacks 2213637@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@mrsrugbee: I was not...</p> <p>But you are right. In inbred populations, people are very effective at finding a match who has just the right homology in HLA... Not too much, not too little. Who knows why I found a mate with 95% homology on HLA DQA. Nothing else about our DNA is the least bit similar.</p> <p>Maybe this is just exactly how my family was meant to be :) </p>