https://boards.hellobee.com/ Pregnancy, Baby and Parenting blog, by Hellobee en Thu, 16 Apr 2026 15:59:02 +0000 https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1212016 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 18:32:04 +0000 MamaMoose 1212016@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>This is such an emotionally charged topic that I think its difficult for anyone on ether side of the fence to be totally subjective.</p> <p>I also think its difficult for Americans to wrap our heads around the idea of NHS.</p> <p>In this situation I think of the British government not as the government but as the Health Insurance Provider. They aren't trying to just give an ethical gold star to people for making the choice the breastfeed. They must believe based on their research that if a baby is breastfed rather than formula fed it will save the NHS some amount of money greater than the 200 pound incentive. I don't see this as being any different from the fact that my Health Insurance Provider would charge me a higher premium if I made the choice to be a tobacco user. (Yes, some will argue here that some people physically aren't able to choose to breastfeed and that's not the same as choosing to use tobacco but it seems the NHS has provided for those situations by giving free prescription formula to those who qualify). The only issue here is that the NHS is already free, so they can't discount for those who breastfeed the way that my insurance company discounts for those who don't use tobacco. They have to give money back to the breastfeeding mothers, and I think this is what rubs people the wrong way.... That there is a cash pay out rather than just a discounted rate. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211953 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:49:32 +0000 looch 1211953@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>First of all, nothing is free! That healthcare system is supported by tax payers.</p> <p>Secondly, yes, breast feeding provides many health benefits, but nothing is in isolation. So many other factors come into play with childhood illnesses. I don't know how else to word this, but if it were proven that lack of breast milk causes childhood cancer, how do you think I would go on with my life? I had to use formula because I had no supply.</p> <p>I have a raging cold right now and I was breastfed. I am sitting next to my formula fed husband who doesn't have even a sniffle. Neither of us have any food allergies or major illnesses. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211949 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:48:12 +0000 CupQuakeWalk 1211949@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Ree723: I agree that nothing if wrong with FF but that breastfeeding is nutritionally superior because it does contain anitbodies and many other characteristics that only a mother can give to her baby, however: policies like this just create stigma.<br /> In the US, if a woman lives in poverty, she will receive WIC to help her purchase milk, cheese, formula. The dairy products are to feed the mother so she may breastfeed, but the formula vouchers are to give her another option if she chooses to formula feed. No stigma. They don't even care which you choose. Also, now the breast pump is covered under ACA. options, options... No one is being paid for one decision over the other.<br /> This all is not to say the US has the best child welfare policies--it is so far from that. Just some food for thought. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211945 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:42:50 +0000 CupQuakeWalk 1211945@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@jedeve: right. They encourage a consumer to purchase their product over the other product..by doing what? By curbing their cost via a coupon. And the competition going on between formula companies by sending coupons is between other formula companies, not against breastfeeding. On the coupons, they even have a disclaimer to say something along the lines of "breastfeeding is recommend for the first 12 months..bla, bla..." I forgot the wording because we no longer use formula anyway. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211943 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:41:50 +0000 Ree723 1211943@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@photojane: You mentioned that the money would be better spent on things like LC, support groups, literature, and better support overall for breastfeeding mothers.....but the UK has all of that already, usually for free. Clearly it hasn't made as big of an impact as they would have liked so now it's time to try something else.</p> <p>I don't think there's anything wrong with this program. With only 1/3 of mothers giving their babies any breast milk at six months, I think it is time to do something to try and increase that number. Whether you want to believe it or not, the health benefits of breastfeeding, for both mother and baby, have clearly been documented across the board. Yes, there are other mitigating factors that determines a child's health, but the bottom line is that you cannot deny the benefits. It does not mean that FF kids are screwed for life, it just means that they have a higher chance of developing certain health conditions. For a country who brilliantly provides free health care to all, why SHOULDN'T they do everything they can to make the population as healthy as possible, thereby lowering their overall expenditures in the long run?</p> <p>I really don't see how this is insulting. There is absolutely nothing wrong with FF, but you can't deny facts that there are certain health benefits that can only be received through breast milk. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211941 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:39:25 +0000 deerylou 1211941@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Kemma: While that may be true for some, I have not observed it, first hand. I live in a liberal city in California, and breastfeeding is consistently congratulated and celebrated, while formula feeding is seen as vastly, vastly inferior. I'm totally pro-breastfeeding, don't get me wrong, but it's tough to feel judged when I feed my child in public. My breastfeeding friends have never experienced this. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211932 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:35:59 +0000 Kemma 1211932@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@TurtleDoves: slightly off topic, but I really believe that IBCLC's should be trained and able to give out advice on bottle feeding (formula and bm) so that families can be given accurate information that's going to best work for their situation.</p> <p>@deerylou: let's be honest, we're stigmatised whichever way we feed our babies - damned if we do, damned if we don't!! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211930 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:35:05 +0000 jedeve 1211930@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@TurtleDoves: just to debate...</p> <p>Wy would a formula company want to help you burn the costs? They give coupons for the same reason any other company does - to encourage you to try their product. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211920 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:29:55 +0000 deerylou 1211920@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I completely disagree that formula companies are still trying to convince the general public that they offer a "better" feeding method. In fact, on almost all the coupons and containers of formula I have purchased or received, there is a "breast is best" message, despite the contents inside *not* being breastmilk. I received many samples and coupons while I was pregnant and it never once swayed me from my decision to EBF. Unfortunately, I couldn't breastfeed, and those samples and coupons helped with the burden of having to purchase formula when I had *already* purchased everything needed to EBF.</p> <p>I agree with @turtledoves: this kind of policy could just end up being another way to stigmatize formula feeding mothers. If anything, it's quite clear that breastfeeding is advertised as the "best" option - I have yet to come across a single medical professional that has touted otherwise. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211905 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:24:11 +0000 CupQuakeWalk 1211905@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Kemma: I do agree with the idea that the money would be better spend in educating women on how to BF and supporting them on a postpartum basis in their breastfeeding trials. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211898 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:20:37 +0000 Kemma 1211898@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I think one of the barriers to higher bf'ing rates is that for many years we had the formula companies and the medical establishment telling us that bf'ing was inferior to formula and just shouldn't be done. These days the formula companies seem to spend gazillions still convincing women they should be formula feeding for their own financial gain. As a non-American it blows me away the way that formula companies advertise, send out coupons and send out unsolicited formula samples to pregnant women.</p> <p>In my opinion, initiatives like the one mentioned are just trying to swing the pendulum the other way even though I'm not sure how successful it will be in the long term. I do however wonder if the money would be better spent sending an IBCLC or "feeding" specialist to see every mother at home at 1-2 weeks post partum (or the point in time when most mothers switch to formula). </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211880 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:11:58 +0000 CupQuakeWalk 1211880@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@MsLipGloss: *bangs head on desk* THANK YOU.<br /> It is not an incentive policy but rather a regressive and preventive policy to either help families out of or help families to never be in poverty.</p> <p>@jedeve: formula coupons are nothing like this. Nothing...<br /> The formula company sends coupons thinking "*if and only *if* you are going to get formula anyways, here is a coupon to help you burn the costs". What these people are saying is "breastfeed. We'll pay you."</p> <p>Anyways- child welfare is my 'thing' and I have never seen or known policies like this to actually make a huge difference in mothers who choose to/are able to breastfeed or not. What a policy like this will do is just create a bigger discrepancy between FF moms and Team EBF and an even more obvious stigma. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211839 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 16:53:52 +0000 deerylou 1211839@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@jedeve: I understand and agree with some of your points. However, the point that you make about formula feeding being higher among lower socioeconomic groups is an interesting one, especially as it relates to overall baby health. While formula fed babies are indeed said to get sick more often, I'm curious if their family's level of education, and lack of funds could possibly lend itself to an overall increased risk of illness.</p> <p>As a formula feeding mother (out of necessity, rather than choice) with a baby that has yet to become ill, I often wonder these things, and can't really get behind a country offering cash incentives to ensure baby's health, when there's other things that could be at play. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211784 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 16:32:27 +0000 jedeve 1211784@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I don't think it's fair to say that every family is making the best decision for them whether to formula or breastfeed. If that were the case, you would see comparable breastfeeding and formula feeding rates across socioeconomic spectrums. But you don't - formula feeding is higher among lower socioeconomic groups. Obviously a lot of women formula feed for physical reasons, but we would expect those to be proportional among incomes. </p> <p>Cash incentives are typically effective, especially among people who would benefit from the cash. </p> <p>Really, the formula companies do the same thing. I've received tons of coupons for formula in the mail. Of course, their angle is to get you to spend more money, whereas the government's angle is to save money overall on reduced health expenditures over time. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211640 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 15:40:18 +0000 googly-eyes 1211640@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I don't think it will be effective. I'll just leave it there. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211520 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 14:57:41 +0000 illumina 1211520@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Cherrybee: I used to think "well I know I want children one day, so I'll still get my paid leave". Then by the time came, I was working for my DH anyway so no paid leave! Grr. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211516 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 14:56:09 +0000 deerylou 1211516@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Money isn't going to change anything. You could put the same efforts towards a parenting enrichment class, but again, people would just attend for the cash incentive, rather than a genuine desire to prepare and educate themselves.</p> <p>I am a formula feeding mom for similar reasons as @cherry bee: my milk never came in, and my daughter was starving and suffering from jaundice. Try as I might, I couldn't maintain a breastmilk supply. There were times when I would grumble, kick rocks, and wish I could receive some sort of pardon. Of course, I would have loved to have my formula covered by a program, especially when I had already shelled out a pretty penny on breastfeeding equipment and supplies. But, alas, this is what parenting entails - adjustment, and sacrifice. </p> <p>I'm not particularly offended by this incentive program (although I don't believe the argument that breastfeeding, in and of itself, guarantees a healthy baby), but I don't think it's going to accomplish the goal its aiming for. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211441 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 14:32:10 +0000 Cherrybee 1211441@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@illumina: I used to think that as well!!! I remember thinking "umm, where is my paid year off?". Then when I had a baby I thought "umm, where is my paid year off?" Haha!</p> <p>I agree with you in the respect that it is such an important decision, surely 120 measly quid wouldn't even factor into it!? </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211376 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 14:19:31 +0000 illumina 1211376@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Sorry it has taken me so long to come back to this! I think the article upset me a bit, because I never imagined that people could be "bribed" to breastfeed over formula feed. I thought that families make that decision based on what is truly best for the needs of the family as a whole- so are they still doing that if they can be so easily "bribed"? Also, would this amount even be enough? Surely if people were so money-concious they would already realise that BF is much much cheaper than FF?</p> <p>I don't know... when I was a young adult, I used to wonder if it was fair that paid maternity leave exists... so if someone chooses not to have a child, they don't get a similar paid leave to do something else? </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211319 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 14:04:13 +0000 Cherrybee 1211319@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Can I just say that as someone who couldn't breastfeed my baby and was in tears today because of that fact, there is nothing on this thread that offends me. I just wanted to say that. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211224 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:38:08 +0000 pui 1211224@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Adira: Ah okay that definitely makes sense! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211192 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:24:43 +0000 sea_bass 1211192@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@looch: I read that. I actually don't think this is the most effective use of money to promote BFing. Nor do I think the obesity policy would work. Being obese is probably not a rational choice. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211190 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:24:34 +0000 Adira 1211190@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@pui: Oh, I wasn't trying to imply it was like a tax break at all - just the opposite! Based on the fact they are fining people for going over their allotted number of children, I suspect they don't give tax breaks at all for having children! Hope that makes sense. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211183 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:21:56 +0000 looch 1211183@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@sea_bass: If you read further down in the article, the NHS abandoned the program to pay obese people to lose weight.</p> <p>Also, we've got people from three different countries contributing to this thread, so that makes it more complex. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211179 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:21:01 +0000 photojane 1211179@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Dandelion: It's hard to compare the American government with any other government! Things are SO different here than in the rest of the world. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211177 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:19:30 +0000 photojane 1211177@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@pui: The tax credit is for the benefit of the family - to allow parents better opportunities to feed, clothe, and protect their children. A means to help prevent American children from starving. Not as payment for choosing to make babies. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to/page/2#post-1211176 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:19:26 +0000 MsLipGloss 1211176@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@pui: The Child Tax Credit was not created for the purposes of encouraging procreation. It (along with several other tax credits) was created for the purpose(s) of helping families in an effort to reduce/eliminate child poverty. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to#post-1211162 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:14:56 +0000 pui 1211162@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Adira: Isn't that more like a fine if you do have more than the allotted number of kids, rather than a tax break for people who do? In any case I don't know much about the Chinese government except that I wouldn't want to live under it. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to#post-1211156 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:13:26 +0000 Adira 1211156@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Dandelion: @pui: @photojane: Well China has a fine in place to help enforce their one-child policy, so I doubt they are giving tax breaks to people who have kids! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/this-makes-me-sad-that-this-is-what-our-society-is-coming-to#post-1211145 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:09:08 +0000 Dandelion 1211145@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@pui: @photojane: I wonder if overpopulated countries give tax breaks for children? </p>