https://boards.hellobee.com/ Pregnancy, Baby and Parenting blog, by Hellobee en Thu, 09 Apr 2026 00:54:58 +0000 https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736742 Tue, 16 May 2017 15:36:40 +0000 2PeasinaPod 2736742@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@looch: I was a transfer in the middle of my freshman year and was brought into Greek life by a friend of my brother's who was older. The very good thing about going to a smaller school with Greek life is that hazing was almost non-existent. I found myself wanting to pledge because it was something additional to put on my resume, and so many people had made friends already, and I was the new person transferring in when friendships had already been set the semester prior. One of my very good friends is a sorority sister of mine. We would have never met if it weren't for our sorority.</p> <p>Overall, it helped me to build leadership skills that I definitely didn't have before. I was an Accounting major and became the treasurer of our sorority. I took us from having a few dollars in our checking account to thriving each year and being able to make charitable donations. I don't think all sororities are like this, but it certainly helped to build my character a bit. So while a lot of frats and sororities are like this, not all of them are. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736340 Mon, 15 May 2017 20:20:28 +0000 azjax 2736340@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>"Greek" life never appealed to me and as tragic losses like this continue to gather national attention, they reinforce my negative feelings about those groups. Multiple people knew something was wrong and they made horrible, indefensible choices that cost a young man his life. I don't think jail and disbanding the group are unreasonable consequences for those involved. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736265 Mon, 15 May 2017 17:24:13 +0000 looch 2736265@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I am the first to admit, I don't understand the allure of belonging to a fraternity or sorority....is it so you have a built in social life? I have a difficult time with the network aspect of it because I am a terrible networker.</p> <p>Now, having written that though, as a parent, I will strongly discourage my son from Greek life if he attends a university where it is prevalent. I don't support hazing of any kind, in any form, no matter how harmless because the intent is to humiliate and demean. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736258 Mon, 15 May 2017 17:08:58 +0000 2littlepumpkins 2736258@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I think any kid smart enough to get into college should know better than to behave that way. Yes, peer pressure and whatever, but waiting 40 mins after finding him the next morning? So sad. Inexcusable. College drinking is the norm but this (.4? With hazing?) is beyond normal and I'm sure they knew that. There are consequences, and this victim paid the ultimate price. The school needs to address this. 😢 </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736256 Mon, 15 May 2017 16:53:03 +0000 yoursilverlining 2736256@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I put zero blame on this kid. He's 19 and a victim. 19 year olds don't always make great life decisions generally, let alone after a few drinks. And I wouldn't expect him to "just say no" - I mean come on. What would have been the result - being labeled a coward (or worse) on campus, being ostracized by the group he clearly was heavily invested in joining, losing friends, etc. that's a heavy price to pay and not one I think most of us would willingly take on; especially when young and inexperienced. </p> <p>We don't generally blame women (or men) who are drunk and get sexually assaulted. I don't see a difference here. He drank and was taken advantage of horrifically by his "friends" and "brothers". </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736212 Mon, 15 May 2017 15:24:19 +0000 Mrs. Lemon-Lime 2736212@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>what's crazy to me is the members and pledges thought enough about not getting in trouble for alcohol to delay getting him help. How about how much trouble they would be in if he was seriously injured or died?</p> <p>@youboots: yep, life lessons. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736211 Mon, 15 May 2017 15:23:44 +0000 ElbieKay 2736211@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Sorry, but this is not the fault of this one kid. He is the victim of a poisonous culture that should be judged hard and eliminated.</p> <p>This just reinforces my negative stereotypes of Greek culture. What a waste of life. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736208 Mon, 15 May 2017 15:14:40 +0000 PeaceLily 2736208@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@littlejoy: You're definitely right. I commuted to school so I had a different college experience than most. I'm sure it may have been very different if I actually lived on campus. There's so much temptation when you're on your own for the first time and the inexperience with lack of impulse control is not a great combo. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736207 Mon, 15 May 2017 15:14:16 +0000 youboots 2736207@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: we had mandatory alcohol training- it covered everything including blackouts and grey outs I still remember a lot of the information and it was 15 years ago. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736202 Mon, 15 May 2017 15:09:01 +0000 littlejoy 2736202@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@PeaceLily: I was also an introvert, but given the right circumstances, I definitely put myself into dangerous situations in college. There's a lot of psychological stuff at play with these situations. For one, the people involved are still children (well, 18 - but I don't consider that adult), and with developing brains, lack of impulse control, lack of good decision making, and alcohol, there are so many things that could go wrong. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736201 Mon, 15 May 2017 15:08:44 +0000 Mrs. Lemon-Lime 2736201@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I didn't pledge in college, because the sorority I was interested in was not allowed to have a line due to hazing abuses. DH pledged and was hazed. He wasn't allowed to drink on his line. I think that makes hazing a little bit safer although he describes that period as the worse experience in his life.</p> <p>If you don't go along with hazing you don't get in the group. If you tell the school or police both parties- those doing the hazing and those hazed get in trouble. </p> <p>DH said there was always a grad student advisor available if an activity went sideways. I can't imagine the fraternity doesn't have a doctor or lawyer alumni to call and seek guidance. Those safeguards are helpful if you're sober enough to seek them.</p> <p>I don't think hazing is going to end. Teens are coming to college already drinking. The college could do a much better job enforcing rules. As a preventative measure for the inevitable I would like student workshops on signs of alcohol poisoning and what to do when someone passes out. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736200 Mon, 15 May 2017 15:04:58 +0000 littlejoy 2736200@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@youboots: Gah!! M has a very strong sense of self, and I fear that most college kids don't have this. Good for him for quitting. </p> <p>In general, I don't think we can blame the victim here at all. Drinking in college is the norm. Once it's been done, it's hard to fault someone for what happens to them. Peer pressure is so strong ... also strong: what people are convinced of when they're in a large group (whether it's doing dangerous things or ignoring a dying person because their friends convince them to). </p> <p>This is so tragic. </p> <p>*And because I'm the worst (and didn't read this link - I've just caught clips on the news): are there criminal charges being brought?!? </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736195 Mon, 15 May 2017 14:58:56 +0000 PeaceLily 2736195@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>The whole thing is just horrible and I truly don't understand why so many college kids put themselves in these situations. I'm very much an introvert and kept to myself in college for the most part, so I was never tempted to be in a situation like this, but I know peer pressure and the need to fit in can drive kids to make awful decisions. </p> <p>I also believe that the fraternity members should be held responsible. The fact that they chose not to call for help for so long is inexcusable. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736191 Mon, 15 May 2017 14:54:44 +0000 youboots 2736191@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>My husband was hazed during fraternity initiation at a very well known school- he quit. It was a big deal because he was the pledge class president. Many of the hazing is done the same way every year for decades. Paddles, wearing high heels, women's underwear etc. Some of what I've heard about the fraternities from friends who were in different houses is pretty bad even though it's a 'secret'</p> <p>That said I was in a sorority and there was zero tolerance policy for hazing. A friend was hazed by her 'big sis' and she was kicked out. I mean parties and underage drinking was part of the culture but participation was not required- however regular study hours and a certain GPA was required.</p> <p>I think it is very sad- but this seems to be more of a fraternity problem and I expect it happens at all schools with a Greek system. People tolorate it I think because of peer pressure and at least at my school it was very prestigious to be a member of certain chapters. Not just at school but while networking in the future, that said, i'd have major concerns about my child joining a frat. There were deaths while I was at school- a non member of a frat fell down stairs after drinking, another guy drowned on a trip to Shasta on the annual houseboat trip-a girl committed suicide on that same trip, a member of another frat dove into a shallow pool and is paralyzed from the neck down- I don't remember any of these things being national news. The fact that no one was called is a crime, but I don't think alcohol related deaths at college are that uncommon. But how does the culture change? Who is ultimately responsible? </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736188 Mon, 15 May 2017 14:48:20 +0000 Adira 2736188@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>This whole thing is so horrific to me and hard to read about.</p> <p>@2PeasinaPod: Agree about victim blaming. I think for some people, they are more prone to peer pressure than others, and drinking just makes that worse. I know that I personally have friends like this. Get a few drinks in them, and they will do whatever you tell them and they'll take any "challenge" as they see it, drinking unsafe amounts. I was often the Mother Hen of my group of friends, stopping people from peer-pressuring others and taking drinks away from people when I felt they had had too many. I'm thankful that nothing like this happened to any of my friends, but I can totally see how one might drink so much because they were pressured to.</p> <p>What's unbelievable to me is that all the frat brothers (and other pledges) did NOTHING about the situation. According to Washington Post, one of the other pledges knew that they should get him to a hospital and worried he might have a concussion, but he still didn't DO anything about it except bring it up to the frat members. I can't fathom putting my "spot" in a frat above the life of another human being.</p> <p>My heart is breaking for this family. :crying: </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736172 Mon, 15 May 2017 14:24:41 +0000 Maysprout 2736172@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I think college is a confusing time being out on your own. So many times kids are told "welcome to the real world" they become unsure what's normal and not. So I can see how the inductees get swept up and accept they're being hazed as just something that's done. </p> <p>It's so hard to think that they could have helped him. Drinking and being scared though is not a good enough excuse to not care for someone whose severely injured. that's a long time and a lot of signs they ignored and they do not seem like they attempted to care for him either. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736169 Mon, 15 May 2017 14:15:00 +0000 Alba4 2736169@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@T.H.O.U.: Those fraternity "brothers" were cowards. To not call the paramedics for 12 hours is just irresponsible. I wonder if they were too scared to call since so much of what they were doing was illegial. Those boys will have to live with a very heavy load, as I do believe they are responsible. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736163 Mon, 15 May 2017 14:01:46 +0000 mediagirl 2736163@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Regarding the question of why you would want to be a part of something that hazes....</p> <p>A lot of times groups will pretend to follow their anti-hazing rules that their national group sets forth and yet still haze. So, they say, "Sorority X doesn't believe in hazing" while at the same time saying you need to drink this tonight, "it's our annual ritual." </p> <p>Speaking from experience. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736160 Mon, 15 May 2017 13:46:20 +0000 Mrsbells 2736160@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@T.H.O.U.: yep thats the other post I saw about the attempted cover up.</p> <p>I also read that other students said he didnt look right and was struggling to breathe. my heart just breaks to think thats someones kid dying slowly </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736158 Mon, 15 May 2017 13:45:51 +0000 Mrsbells 2736158@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@2PeasinaPod: yeah I dont get that part. Everyone there was old enough to recognize that he needed some medical assistance even if they didnt realize how serious his situation was. And from reading a previous post about it they tried to cover it up after the fact </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736157 Mon, 15 May 2017 13:45:13 +0000 T.H.O.U. 2736157@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@mrskansas: </p> <p>Yes, this is from CNN and from the dad but still if even part of this is true, its HORRIBLE. ** trigger alert **</p> <p>"And when they knew that death was imminent the next morning, they waited 42 minutes to call for help while they told people to clean up, cover up the evidence, get rid of it. This wasn't boys being boys, this was criminal activity," Jim Piazza added.<br /> The criminal presentment against some of the fraternity members shows electronic messages urging the pledges not to talk, and to clean up the alcohol in the basement.<br /> No one went with Tim Piazza to the hospital, his family said, and no one notified them, either. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736155 Mon, 15 May 2017 13:42:29 +0000 mrskansas 2736155@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@T.H.O.U.: Yes, that is ridiculous. I didn't realize that he was unconscious for 12 hours. It's scary that not one person felt obligated to get help. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736154 Mon, 15 May 2017 13:41:54 +0000 Mamaof2 2736154@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@2PeasinaPod: "...the fact that they were going to get in trouble trumped his life, and I find that really sad and frightening"</p> <p>This exactly :crying: </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736153 Mon, 15 May 2017 13:41:47 +0000 T.H.O.U. 2736153@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@2PeasinaPod: Penn State said "a representative did share in advance with the parents he was unfortunately likely unable to attend the funeral but the university did participate in a vigil held with the Piazza family on campus."</p> <p>I dont know that it makes any difference but yea. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736152 Mon, 15 May 2017 13:40:41 +0000 T.H.O.U. 2736152@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@mrskansas: Yes I agree, he chose to partake in an illegal activity (no matter how common it is). From reading the lawsuit though is stemming from the fact that no one at the party called for help for 12 HOURS after he fell down the stairs and was unconscious. There is a moral and potentially legal obligation to call for help when something like that happens. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736149 Mon, 15 May 2017 13:38:57 +0000 2PeasinaPod 2736149@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrsbells: I'm always really hesitant to put any blame on the victim in situations like these. No...he probably shouldn't have drank that much, but peer pressure and bad decisions can get the best of anyone. He could have fallen whether he was drunk or not. There comes a time for human decency...the fact that they were going to get in trouble trumped his life, and I find that really sad and frightening. I can't even get started about the fact that not one fraternity brother or representative from Penn State attended his funeral or memorial. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736148 Mon, 15 May 2017 13:38:09 +0000 mrskansas 2736148@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I guess I don't understand why you would want to be a part of something like that. I know drinking in college is normal, but at 19 years old, it is illegal. Obviously he is not 100% to blame for his own death, but I don't believe that 100% of the blame should fall on the others involved. It is horrible that no one bothered to get him help though. This whole story is just baffling to me. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736147 Mon, 15 May 2017 13:35:19 +0000 T.H.O.U. 2736147@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Mrsbells: Im sure he knew there would be some degree of drinking/hazing going on and he chose to walk into that situation. But going to that level is absurd. Again, not to blame him but I can see how when you have a few drinks it can totally escalate. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736142 Mon, 15 May 2017 13:29:33 +0000 Mrsbells 2736142@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@T.H.O.U.: you are so right! Especially for younger inexperienced drinkers. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/thoughts-on-the-penn-state-hazing-death#post-2736141 Mon, 15 May 2017 13:27:21 +0000 T.H.O.U. 2736141@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I think the problem for some may be that its logical to walk away from the situation when you're sober. But when you've had a few drinks, that logic is gone. Peer pressure steps in and you end up over the edge. </p>