https://boards.hellobee.com/ Pregnancy, Baby and Parenting blog, by Hellobee en Wed, 29 Apr 2026 03:45:06 +0000 https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2597271 Tue, 02 Aug 2016 16:15:47 +0000 daniellemybelle 2597271@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Ugh, my LO has just started saying, "I'm sorry, but... {insert excuse}." Save your politeness and do as you're told! Please. :silly: </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2597194 Tue, 02 Aug 2016 14:39:50 +0000 Anagram 2597194@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Cherrybee: yeah, so with the choices...her saying no means YOU make the choice for her. So you might say "E, do you want to climb in your car seat, or do you want mummy to put you in the seat?" And she says "Nooo! I want to _______", so you just calmly say, "Okay, since you don't want to climb into your seat by yourself, I will put you in". Then scoop her up and physically put her in.</p> <p>So the choice is more...does she want to do it by herself, or have you do it--but either way, it gets done. </p> <p>"E, do you want to play blocks or go outside? " E: "Noooooo!". "Okay, since you didn't make a choice, mommy has decided we'll go outside. Then physically pick her up and take her calmly outside.</p> <p>I only do this when we are keeping to a daily schedule. I know you have a baby, too. Since LO2 has to eat and nap at certain times, we have very small windows for everything to get done. So if I say, now we're going to the supermarket, my LO1 doesn't really have a choice...we have to go right then so we have time to shop and get home before LO2's next nap or feeding. SO I don't ask her, "Shall we go to the store?" or whatever...because it's a false choice. I just say, "Maya, we're going to the store. Go potty and put your shoes on." Then if (more like when) she doesn't do it, I say "Maya, do you want to go potty by yourself, or do you want mommy to put you on the potty?", same with shoes. Then we finally get out the door.</p> <p>And I'm not a yeller. But I do get really stern when she disobeys because I'm a teacher and I'm used to commanding the attention of 20 8th graders at once. So sometimes she's just being 3 and I'm expecting her to be 13. Those things I have to work on. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596887 Tue, 02 Aug 2016 08:02:33 +0000 Modern Daisy 2596887@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I think what is most important is setting rules and following through with enforcing them. So I wouldn't allow any leeway with this, otherwise it sends a message that rules aren't really rules. But if you say we're going to play outside now and LO wants to play downstairs instead, maybe allow a compromise with something like that. It's a struggle every day in my house but I've found that when I consistently enforce the rules I hear way less whining and acting up, when I give in (to be nice) I suddenly have a wild dictator on my hands. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596866 Tue, 02 Aug 2016 07:23:22 +0000 KayKay 2596866@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@cherrybee: i think the potty-time power struggle is a common thing at this age, too. when DD1 was learning, we had some similar situations: she'd be holding herself or wiggling around, we'd ask her if she had to go, she would say no...and then 30s later be like "oh! i have to go potty!". if she was having more frequent accidents (either through her fault for waiting or not), we would sometimes break out the mini-m&amp;m rewards again, so i'd just remind her that she didn't get those if she had an accident. if it were more sporadic, we just went with it and let her make her own decisions/mistakes -- accidents suck, but i didn't want it to turn into a huge constant power struggle...or something where she was acting out just to get some extra treats.</p> <p>good luck! :) the good news is...it eventually passes! haha </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596864 Tue, 02 Aug 2016 07:13:01 +0000 looch 2596864@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Cherrybee: what if you put a small potty in the playroom or wherever her toys are, so she has no reason not to go?</p> <p>It sounds like the moment you even make mention of having to do something, she's resisting, so maybe she'd understand the concept of a chart, where you kind of list out with pictures the tasks she needs to do. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596862 Tue, 02 Aug 2016 07:10:50 +0000 littlebug 2596862@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>We have hit-and-miss success with the tactic that @lovehoneybee: suggested - allowing him to continue with or do whatever he wants for a set amount of time or a set number of times. Like this morning, he wanted to play volleyball (ie, hit the balloon up in the air) instead of getting in the car. After repeatedly asking him to get in the car and hearing, "No, but I just have to play volleyball first," I told him he could hit the volleyball 3x and then it was time to get in the car. 3 hits later, he was marching out the door. It's hit or miss, but usually more hit than miss. </p> <p>The other thing that works for us is saying "you can do ABC yourself, or I will do it for you." So like putting on his shoes. He'd MUCH rather do it himself, so threatening to do it for him gets him moving. Obviously taht doesn't work for something like going potty, since I can't pee for him, but for other tasks and directions, it really seems to help.</p> <p>Sorry, mama. Threenager-dom is hell.</p> <p>ETA: I also echo part of @Ajsmommy: post about "No whining, no crying." I find if we say, "Ok, you can do ABC for 15 more seconds, then it's time to XYZ without crying or whining. You'll just say 'ok, mommy' and do XYZ. Right?" "Right, mommy." 15 seconds later, I ask him to do XYZ and "Ok, mommy." Sometimes I even get a "thank you for letting me ABC." Sometimes. It's rare. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596827 Tue, 02 Aug 2016 05:53:31 +0000 Cherrybee 2596827@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@avivoca: She self initiates most of the time but, when she's dancing around, holding her crotch, I have to ask her to go! Or, sometimes, she tells me she needs a wee, then when I say "ok, lets go!" (what I really mean is "then go and do one then", because she is quite capable of going by herself), she sometimes refuses (and wets herself in the next room or something, unless I force her to the toilet). </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596825 Tue, 02 Aug 2016 05:47:53 +0000 avivoca 2596825@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Cherrybee: Are you asking her to go? What worked for H was letting her self initiate. I really only ask her to go potty of we are getting ready to leave (for daycare, for church, whatever), but the rest of the time she self-initiates (unless she is tooting up a storm). </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596822 Tue, 02 Aug 2016 05:43:22 +0000 Foodnerd81 2596822@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Cherrybee: I also huff and puff and say really sarcastic things under my breath. But no, I definitely don't have to TRY to tell. 😞 </p> <p>It does help knowing its normal behavior at least. Our common saying in my house is "when she's good she's very good but when she's bad she horrid". (That we say when she's not around!) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596810 Tue, 02 Aug 2016 04:20:25 +0000 Cherrybee 2596810@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Anagram: @Foodnerd81: I'm having the opposite challenge..... I'm having to try *to* shout. I'm not a shouter at.all (when I lose my cool - which I do - I'm more likely to flap about, huffing and puffing and using phrases like "for the love of god, child". She totally reacts to this and behaves worse). If I feel drastic action I needed, I have to gather myself and force myself to shout at her! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596809 Tue, 02 Aug 2016 04:13:39 +0000 Cherrybee 2596809@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Thanks for the responses, everyone. The thing I have enjoyed most about this thread is seeing that the behavior is standard for the age and that it winds others up too! </p> <p>@Anagram: @dragonsword: Choices don't work for E because her stock answer is "nothing". "Do you want this top or this top?". "Noooooo. I want NOTHING!"</p> <p>@ShootingStar: The toilet has to be a fight in our house. E is frequently dry all day but, some days, she will have multiple accidents because she refuses to go - not because she's distracted, but because she wants to control what she does and doesn't do. She will be dancing about, holding herself, but will not go if asked. Its on those days I resort to bribery. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596711 Mon, 01 Aug 2016 19:32:38 +0000 Foodnerd81 2596711@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Anagram: I do a lot of the same- giving choices with the same end result to me. And I completely agree that me losing my cool is the quickest way to get her to lose her cool and flip out. Yet I still do. Im working on it. </p> <p>@Cherrybee: oddly one thing that has helped a little with cleaning up is the baby getting more mobile. Now I just say, if you leave your toys on the floor, G can get to them and play with them. If you don't want her to play with them you have to put them away. Our living room has never been more picked up! Surely this will backfire when I want her to actually share her toys, of course! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596454 Mon, 01 Aug 2016 12:52:31 +0000 dragonsword 2596454@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Definitely providing them a choice still gives them "the power" and realize that their actions/decisions have consequences. Of course then, we as parents have to get creative (manipulative) in the choices provided so that they pick what we want them to pick. :) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596440 Mon, 01 Aug 2016 12:36:02 +0000 Anagram 2596440@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Lately, I've been working on calmly giving a choice--</p> <p>Me:<br /> "LO, do you want to climb in your chair for lunch, or do you want Mama to pick you up and put you in the chair?"</p> <p>Her: But first, I need to get my blocks and make tower.</p> <p>Me: No, it's time for lunch. We can play blocks after we eat lunch and take our nap. Do you want to sit in your chair by yourself, or do you want mommy to put you there?</p> <p>Then she either goes, or I say "Okay, since you aren't going by yourself, I will pick you up". and then physically pick her up and put her there. I try to say it really matter-of-fact...because me picking her up isn't a punishment, it's just a choice. She didn't go on her own, so now I will put her there myself. And I find that when I get exasperated, I get more mean--and then LO either feeds off that and becomes more disobedient, OR she starts acting kind of scared (not scared, like...cowering. But I think she's in fear of me because then she'll jump to say, "I'm sorry mama! I'm sorry! as if a big punishment is coming), and although I want her to know her mama is FIRM and means what she says, I don't want her to be scared of me, you know? Either reaction, I know I have work to do on how I'm presenting it. The best way is just total calmness.</p> <p>Obviously, I'm human and sometimes I get exasperated. But I've been trying this with some success lately. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596383 Mon, 01 Aug 2016 11:16:12 +0000 Mama Bird 2596383@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Oh. My. Gosh. The "I can't" is driving me insane. I can't dress myself. I can't pick up my toys. I can't roll the scooter out of the middle of the hallway and pick up the bucket of toys I just hurled all over the place.</p> <p>I feel like the worst mum ever right now. I've tried asking DS nicely to do things for himself so I don't have to leave for work looking like a dog pile because I dressed him when I could be dressing myself. I've lost it and yelled at him so many times because he can make messes faster than a grown man but he "can't" pick them up. Neither approach worked. I think the only time I got anywhere was when he wanted to play with Legos that were put away, and I told him I can't get them out because there's no room on the floor. Like magic, off he went to put away his toys :silly: </p> <p>It's been getting a tiny bit better after a month of this. I guess it's a phase, like everything with kids! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596371 Mon, 01 Aug 2016 11:11:10 +0000 ShootingStar 2596371@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>We are struggling with transitions and getting him to do what we want, too. We use a timer for things, which works maybe 80% of the time. If it's something I need to do, he gets some sort of consequence for not doing it. I tell him I'll count to 3 and then he either needs to do X or Y happens (time out, gets carried instead of walking, etc.) A lot of the time this does result in a meltdown and I'm ok with that. He has to learn that we mean what we say.</p> <p>But we do not make going to the potty a fight. We start with telling him it's time to go, not asking. If he refuses I generally let it go. If I think he's gone too long I might try to convince him. I have some success with asking him if I should go potty or if he wants to come with me, or telling him I'll go instead. I also offer potty treats and if he's still not interested I ask if I should eat his potty treat. Again, if he still refuses I'll let it go...unless we're headed out. Then I try a different tactic, like "if you want to go with us, you need to go potty." He's usually pretty interested in what we're doing so that works. </p> <p>Every so often he has a little accident because he's too distracted. Usually it's in the evening after dinner when he hasn't gone since the afternoon at daycare. He usually notices right away and comes running saying he needs to potty. I think it's actually good for him to realize he needs to go and to initiate it, even if he has to have a little accident. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596288 Mon, 01 Aug 2016 09:36:42 +0000 caterw 2596288@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I have been having a fair amount of success with setting a timer and making sure I give lots of warnings before it's really time for her to do what I said. She gets a ten minute, five minute, two minute, and thirty second warning for coming to the table for meals/ cleaning up toys/ leaving the house and I have been restricting dinnertime to one hour and breakfast/ lunch to about 40 monites (she can dawdle at a meal forever). If she doesn't do what she is supposed to in her allowed amount of time, she either gets a time- out or loses a privilege. My most effective ones are losing dessert and losing bubbles in her bath. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596251 Mon, 01 Aug 2016 08:50:13 +0000 Ajsmommy 2596251@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>This is the worst. I miss when my DD would just listen to me!! Now it's always a struggle. My mo is to allow her to do whatever it is she wants to do or is currently doing for a "couple more minutes". So she is in her mind getting her way. This has been working so far. </p> <p>So ie:<br /> me: dd its time for dinner<br /> dd: but I want "insert anything which is not dinner"<br /> me: ok for a couple more mins then it's dinner time, ok? no crying and no whining ok?<br /> dd: ok mommy</p> <p>couple of mins (however long I feel.. sometimes its 1-2 mins sometimes its longer if I'm doing something or get distracted)<br /> me: ok it's time for dinner now...<br /> dd: ok, mommy, coming</p> <p>If she whines or argues I'll say.. we talked about this and we agreed on a couple of minutes, now its time for dinner. So far it's been working... I know it won't forever though </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596230 Mon, 01 Aug 2016 08:21:41 +0000 Mrs. Sunshine 2596230@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I feel your pain. My LO likes to delay by kissing things. "DD it's time to go inside and get ready for bed." "Okay but first I need to kiss the slide and the swing and the ladder and that tree, okay?" I usually let her but, like you it makes me crazy and I feel like it's giving her a bit too much freedom. Sometimes I have to wrestle her to the toilet too but she doesn't lash out physically so it's not as much of an issue. I'll be getting advice from this thread too! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596226 Mon, 01 Aug 2016 08:14:11 +0000 KayKay 2596226@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I think the hardest part for me when DD1 was 2 and 3 was learning her specific triggers/situations and just trying to prevent or avoid that power struggle. Now that she's 4 and I have been SAH with her for over a year, I have a much better handle on what battles to pick (when there is a choice...). </p> <p>More generally, I try not to:<br /> - ask a question when it's really a command (e.g., sometimes she has a choice about something, but sometimes she just has to do it/try. I attempt to be very clear about which of those are which)<br /> - exert power when I actually have no control (e.g., I can make her go sit on the potty, but I can't make her go. I can make her stay in her bed/room after a certain time, but I can't make her sleep)</p> <p>In the case of her toys, I would explain that if she is too little to help put them away, then she is too little to play with them. And I would remove those toys for awhile. I also read a good article about how, if you're making your kid stop playing, they might not actually be "done", so is there harm in leaving it out for them to come back to later? Just a different perspective I hadn't thought of! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596207 Mon, 01 Aug 2016 07:40:21 +0000 ALV91711 2596207@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I repeat that you have to listen. If he is finishing up something then I will tell him to finish that and then you have to do what I asked. If he doesn't eat much dinner he knows it stays on the table and that he doesn't get anything else. He'll usually finish it up for a snack. </p> <p>If he really isn't listening he'll usually get warned that if he doesn't listen he gets a time out. I usually give two warnings first. Usually he'll listen but sometimes it is a time out. </p> <p>I think you do have to pick your battles but at they same time they do need to learn that they have to listen. </p> <p>DS has become interested in the clock, so I've started to tell him that when the big hand is at this number then x happens and this has been working pretty well. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596206 Mon, 01 Aug 2016 07:38:24 +0000 hilsy85 2596206@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I would say that the most important thing is sticking to your guns--so if you say, you need her to do it in 5 minutes, then when 5 minutes is up then you need to not let her delay any more--I find that if i let DS continually delay then it becomes a habit where anytime I say he needs to do something, he expects that I don't really mean it and he can wait 5 min, 10 min, or til he feels like doing it. So I would decide what stuff is really important to get done at the time you ask, and what stuff can wait until she is ready. And then have consequences ready for if she is not listening. </p> <p>As far as the potty, we had SO many battles over this but it was rarely worth it--I couldn't actually hold him on the potty and make him go. WHat ended up being effective was saying, "if you have an accident because you are too busy playing with your train set, then we will have to put away your train set because it is too distracting". That usually worked. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596203 Mon, 01 Aug 2016 07:32:55 +0000 lovehoneybee 2596203@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Yep, and it gets worse. </p> <p>One thing that works for us to give him a count-down. Like<br /> "You need to do x"<br /> "I will in 90 minutes (or whatever random number he chooses".<br /> "No, now"<br /> "No Mommy"<br /> "Okay, you can do x for 10 more seconds, and then you need to do x" And then I count up. </p> <p>In general, giving him warning before transitions is pretty effective, though. Like "You can play for 5 more minutes and then you need to get out of the bath. 4 more minutes" etc. And if he refuses to clean up his toys they get taken away. I might be a mean mommy, though, lol. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596195 Mon, 01 Aug 2016 07:23:49 +0000 looch 2596195@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>My son is like this, and the only thing that seems to make a difference is for me not to blow my top when he doesn't do what he is asked in the moment. I have learned to simply say, that's your choice to make but there will be consequences. The consequences are usually that when he calls me to do do something, I pretend that I don't hear him, ignore him and then tell him I have to do other things first...basically, to treat him as he is treating others.</p> <p>We also have lots of talks about what it means to be in a family, the responsibilities, how mom and dad make the rules, we work hard and everyone has to pull their weight. I realized that in those moments of stubborness, I could threaten isolation and removal of all toys and he still won't budge on principal. He will literally sit on his bed with no toys for hours. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596183 Mon, 01 Aug 2016 06:32:30 +0000 Foodnerd81 2596183@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>We are also having a rough time with this. So frustrating. The worst for us is using the potty. She's been doing SO well with it, like practically no accidents since the first weekend, initiated herself without reminders. But lately she doesn't want to stop what she is doing, I can see she has to go and try to get her to, she refuses, then suddenly she is running to the toilet and crying because she got a little pee in her undies. </p> <p>The only thing that has worked for us is when we have something we can threaten to take away and are willing to follow through on. Yesterday we had a birthday party after nap and there was a lot of "if you can't listen to us now we cannot go to the party". But we were actually willing to skip it and she really wanted to go, so it worked. Most days we don't have such fun optional activities. </p> <p>I've picked up toys and taken them away when she refused to help but I don't think it made any difference to her. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596180 Mon, 01 Aug 2016 06:02:20 +0000 Alba4 2596180@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@avivoca: ha! Totally hear you with dinner. We say the kitchen is closed after he leaves the table. He has a hard time sitting at the table and eating, so when it's time for the bath he complains that he's hungry! Nope, kitchen is closed. Good try! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596179 Mon, 01 Aug 2016 05:58:57 +0000 Alba4 2596179@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I'm finding that threatening to take away a favorite toy gets DS to follow our requests. We, too, must choose our battles though. I'm trying to stay positive with him, so we have also started a "good boy" jar that we fill with pompoms when he behaves well. When the jar is full, he gets a prize. He's not even officially a threenager until later this month! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596178 Mon, 01 Aug 2016 05:55:46 +0000 avivoca 2596178@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Ugh, right there with you and mine isn't three yet. The hill I will die on is picking up her toys. If she doesn't pick them up, they go in the giveaway box for a few days and I've created a rule that she can only play with one thing at a time because she doesn't like to pick up her toys. With dinner, I just tell her that she can have dry toast if she doesn't want what is offered, but there will be no more food until the morning. </p> <p>I really hate the, "I just needed to do X first," and "ButI need to do _______." No. What you need to do is what I asked/told you to do, not what you want to do. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596176 Mon, 01 Aug 2016 05:51:03 +0000 travelgirl1 2596176@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Ugh, this is such a problem for us right now. It depends how harassed I am as to how I deal with it. I try pick my battles though and be strict on things that really matter and for other things let her do her thing first. I am so sick of hearing "but mummy, I just need to...." And "mummy! Listen!". I am sick of the sound of my own voice right now. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/threenager-exerting-independence-via-disobedience-how-much-leeway-do-you-give#post-2596164 Mon, 01 Aug 2016 03:22:27 +0000 AprilFool 2596164@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Unless it is something that needed to be done immediately (like a wee) I would allow the leeway, if she followed through on my request after whatever it was she needed to do. If she got distracted or still refused to do it, then I would crack down. </p>