https://boards.hellobee.com/ Pregnancy, Baby and Parenting blog, by Hellobee en Fri, 01 May 2026 02:51:26 +0000 https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1399776 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 03:53:37 +0000 lamariniere 1399776@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>We are an expat family and mostly love it. We currently live in Vienna, which has a very large expat/foreigner population (nearly 40%). As I don't speak German, all of my social circle is composed of expats. Everyone has brought up really great points. Some of the important ones that I think are worth repeating (especially pertaining to Europe):</p> <p>Language - are you ok with not speaking the local language? I have lots of good intentions to learn German, but honestly I don't have time at this stage, and with a newborn, it's not looking like I will anytime soon. Luckily, here, nearly everyone speaks at least some English, so I am able to get by with few problems. </p> <p>Healthcare - insurance and your expectations of health coverage. How are you covered for major events like a birth or accident? Are you in a country where you feel comfortable receiving care for major issues?</p> <p>Work - if you intend on working, can you do it legally? In most cases that I know of in Europe (and please, other bees feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) if at least one of the spouses is not European, the non European spouse will likely have a hard time getting working rights (does that make sense?). For example, I know several American couples here whose husband's job brought them here and the spouse is not allowed to work. Since I'm married to a European, I am allowed to work. </p> <p>Salary - are you paid in the local currency or in dollars? Exchange rates can fluctuate or be unfavorable. Is there an adjustment for changing exchange rates?</p> <p>Taxes - find out your tax situation before you go. American citizens must always file, but not necessarily pay taxes when living abroad, especially if you are taxed locally. </p> <p>Schools - do you want your child in a local school, or is there an international option? Even though DS is still a few years away from real school we are already debating where we want to send him luckily there are a few international schools here. We've already decided we won't send him to a local Austrian school since neither of us speak enough german to be able to deal with schools, help with homework, etcetera. Also, how will you pay for private school if you go that route? Luckily, my husband's job pays an education stipend, so we will have the luxury of opting for that. </p> <p>Social life - how will you make friends? I am very lucky here because there is a well organized "club" of mamas and babies. I'm pretty sure everyone I know is thanks to this group. If I didn't have it, I don't know how I would go about making new friends. </p> <p>Culture - how do you feel about new cultures, especially one that has wildly different practices from your own?</p> <p>Standard of living - Americans enjoy a very high material standard of living. Most consumer goods in the US are relatively inexpensive compared to what they cost in Europe. Be prepared for sticker shock if you come here. Also, will you need a car? Will you be able to drive it? Consider licenses, understanding street signage, driving on the opposite side of the road in some cases. </p> <p>Housing - I would guess/generalize that most apartments in Europe are going to be smaller than a typical home in the US, especially if you are in a capital. We came from NYC to Vienna and actually had the pleasant surprise of getting a relatively big apartment compared to what we had in NYC. However, most of the Americans I know here complain of small apartments compared to their former homes. Will you have help finding/leasing an apartment from DH's job? Will they pay to move your furniture and household items to the new country? If they don't, will they pay for storage in the US and/or give you a moving stipend to buy new stuff?</p> <p>It's definitely an exciting opportunity! I would just be cautious about getting a clear picture of what to expect, especially since you have a child. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1399752 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 02:12:04 +0000 PinkElephant 1399752@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I live in Hong Kong with a 19 month old and soon to arrive newborn - my husband and I are both American and moved to Asia about 7 years ago (before we were even married). We were very young and didn't take time to think things through as carefully as you, we just said "why not?!" and went for it. Now that we're older, and hopefully a bit wiser, there's definitely more I'd consider before doing another relocation. Here are a few more points to consider:</p> <p>- I'd say it's important to understand what life will be like for YOU, personally, when you move. Your husband will be "taken care of" by his company, for sure, but find out what benefits are offered for spouses and children. For example:</p> <p>- Will your children's international school tuition be paid for? From what age (some start only at P1, or about age 6..but it's expected that children attend preschool from age 3, and common that they go from 10 months...which isn't cheap)</p> <p>- Can the company offer debentures (very costly, guaranteed slots) for the most sought-after international schools, or will you be on your own getting your child a school place? Can they offer you the services of a school consultant?</p> <p>- What kind of expat/international women's organizations are there in the place you'll be living? Any moms' Facebook groups you can join to get a feel before you move?</p> <p>- If you want to work, can you? Will your visa type allow you to work straight away, or would you need to find a company to sponsor you? COULD you work without speaking the local language? If you want to work, what child care options are available?</p> <p>-What sorts of children's classes/programs can you find in the area that are in English (or accept non-local-language speakers)?</p> <p>- If it is a country where household "helpers" or "staff" are the norm, will the company help you with either the process of or the fees related to hiring these people? Furthermore, how do you feel about this lifestyle change?</p> <p>- What happens when hubby's "deal" expires? Does he automatically get sent back home, no matter what? Have the opportunity to re-sign? If he re-signs, at that point would he need to "go local", or would the expat package continue? If your husband somehow ends up on a local package, what benefits do you lose? Think about the type of health insurance (you might need to use your host country's public system), someone to do your taxes, school/housing allowances, tickets home, etc.)</p> <p>- How would you feel if you stayed MUCH longer than intended? Sometimes when the contract expires, things have changed at home and it's no longer a smart career move to return....(we came to Asia for 18 months max....and have now been overseas for 7 years!)</p> <p>- Will he remain on the US dollar payroll? Generally if not, you won't be able to contribute to a 401(k) plan and will need to handle retirement savings yourselves.</p> <p>- What happens if your husband quits his job, or God forbid, is fired? You absolutely want to be sure that re-patriation is a guaranteed part of his contract, no matter what.</p> <p>As others have said, be sure you fully understand ALL costs of living in local currency before accepting an offer. The cost of rent in Hong Kong is so embarrassingly high I refuse to tell my parents what we pay for our relatively modest apartment. Let's just say we'd live in an absolute palace in Manhattan! :)</p> <p>I realize this all sounded pretty dismal, but it's thinking through these things and understanding them that will help guarantee your happiness. You don't have to get exactly what you want, you just have to understand what you're getting, if that makes sense, so there aren't any ugly surprises 6 months in.</p> <p>We love living overseas, and though we hope to get our girls back to the US before they're too old, right now we're capitalizing on all the amazing cultural and travel opportunities this experience is allowing them. Skype, Facetime, and frequent international flights make being an expat a lot easier than I imagine it used to be :) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1399751 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 02:11:52 +0000 PinkElephant 1399751@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I live in Hong Kong with a 19 month old and soon to arrive newborn - my husband and I are both American and moved to Asia about 7 years ago (before we were even married). We were very young and didn't take time to think things through as carefully as you, we just said "why not?!" and went for it. Now that we're older, and hopefully a bit wiser, there's definitely more I'd consider before doing another relocation. Here are a few more points to consider:</p> <p>- I'd say it's important to understand what life will be like for YOU, personally, when you move. Your husband will be "taken care of" by his company, for sure, but find out what benefits are offered for spouses and children. For example:</p> <p>- Will your children's international school tuition be paid for? From what age (some start only at P1, or about age 6..but it's expected that children attend preschool from age 3, and common that they go from 10 months...which isn't cheap)</p> <p>- Can the company offer debentures (very costly, guaranteed slots) for the most sought-after international schools, or will you be on your own getting your child a school place? Can they offer you the services of a school consultant?</p> <p>- What kind of expat/international women's organizations are there in the place you'll be living? Any moms' Facebook groups you can join to get a feel before you move?</p> <p>- If you want to work, can you? Will your visa type allow you to work straight away, or would you need to find a company to sponsor you? COULD you work without speaking the local language? If you want to work, what child care options are available?</p> <p>-What sorts of children's classes/programs can you find in the area that are in English (or accept non-local-language speakers)?</p> <p>- If it is a country where household "helpers" or "staff" are the norm, will the company help you with either the process of or the fees related to hiring these people? Furthermore, how do you feel about this lifestyle change?</p> <p>- What happens when hubby's "deal" expires? Does he automatically get sent back home, no matter what? Have the opportunity to re-sign? If he re-signs, at that point would he need to "go local", or would the expat package continue? If your husband somehow ends up on a local package, what benefits do you lose? Think about the type of health insurance (you might need to use your host country's public system), someone to do your taxes, school/housing allowances, tickets home, etc.)</p> <p>- How would you feel if you stayed MUCH longer than intended? Sometimes when the contract expires, things have changed at home and it's no longer a smart career move to return....(we came to Asia for 18 months max....and have now been overseas for 7 years!)</p> <p>- Will he remain on the US dollar payroll? Generally if not, you won't be able to contribute to a 401(k) plan and will need to handle retirement savings yourselves.</p> <p>- What happens if your husband quits his job, or God forbid, is fired? You absolutely want to be sure that re-patriation is a guaranteed part of his contract, no matter what.</p> <p>As others have said, be sure you fully understand ALL costs of living in local currency before accepting an offer. The cost of rent in Hong Kong is so embarrassingly high I refuse to tell my parents what we pay for our relatively modest apartment. Let's just say we'd live in an absolute palace in Manhattan! :)</p> <p>I realize this all sounded pretty dismal, but it's thinking through these things and understanding them that will help guarantee your happiness. You don't have to get exactly what you want, you just have to understand what you're getting, if that makes sense, so there aren't any ugly surprises 6 months in.</p> <p>We love living overseas, and though we hope to get our girls back to the US before they're too old, right now we're capitalizing on all the amazing cultural and travel opportunities this experience is allowing them. Skype, Facetime, and frequent international flights make being an expat a lot easier than I imagine it used to be :) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1399572 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 22:52:33 +0000 immabeetoo 1399572@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Arden: @JoJoGirl: thank you for chiming in!</p> <p>@loveisstrange: what do you mean, not everyone likes Americans?? :silly: thank you for your points!</p> <p>@septca: I had not thought about public transportation/driving! So thanks for that.</p> <p>@looch: it would definitely be an expat experience! the company he works for has specific international positions so there isn't competition with local folks, but it's good to keep in mind about taxes and negotiations, thanks!</p> <p>@Silva: eeeee I know! It's a few years out, but we're hoping in 5 years it'll be a conversation. We've been moving every year or so since college so it would be fun to have one of those moves be out of the Midwest.. and the country :grin: </p> <p>@Weagle: His company doesn't have anything in the Middle East, but yeah.. that would be a huge deal for me too. I can't imagine raising a child in that environment, especially. </p> <p>@stratosphere: thanks so much for sharing! he was actually involved in some of the finance work for expats in his last job, so we know that they take pretty good care of them. they definitely do the adjusted cost of living, and pay for all living expenses, and then pay for your mortgage, storing your stuff, etc. back home. I'm not sure about some of the other things you mentioned though, so I am writing them down!</p> <p>@locavore_mama: yes, they are super generous. It's funny you say that - I still have the strongest memory of trying to convey a number when I was in China and even the finger symbols were different for 1/2/3 (as I'm sure you know, duh). I try to recall those memories whenever I'm around/see someone who is having trouble communicating here in the US!</p> <p>@stine_ciro: I felt so gigantic in China trying to buy pajamas in college... so I hear you </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1399258 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 20:47:24 +0000 mrs.shinerbock 1399258@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>It certainly wouldn't prevent me from moving somewhere, but I would keep it in mind for when I moved - but how easy will it be to do things like shopping for clothes/shoes? I've thought about this when DH and I go visit his family - I'm am much taller than any woman I've ever met from his country and it would be impossible for me to find clothes there. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1399098 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 19:53:59 +0000 regberadaisy 1399098@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@scg00387: Omg I'm so jealous!!! That is my dream. Are they providing living stipend too? </p> <p>The two countries I will absolutely love to live in are China and Germany. I'm Chinese and DH is German / Irish. I would love the opportunity to travel around the country and show our children their heritage and have them learn the native tongue. </p> <p>Other things to consider is the country safe for Americans?<br /> How easy it it to communicate in English if you can't speak the native tongue?<br /> Do you like their food?!<br /> How easy is it to get home and visit family and vice versa? </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1399073 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 19:30:23 +0000 stratosphere 1399073@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>As a former expat I would echo what @Looch: wrote. Compensation can be key, especially if you move to a high cost of living country (like the UK or some others in Europe and a few in Asia). You need to make sure your compensation will afford you a lifestyle in that country that you expect or is reasonable. If you don't get a cost-of-living-adjusted salary you might find yourself living far below the standard you had been living in the US on the same salary. And getting paid your salary in US dollars instead of the local currency, as Looch said, leaves you exposed to exchange rate fluctuations--meaning you make the same amount every month in $USD but your rent in the local currency changes every month based on how much a dollar is worth in that currency that month. I had major issues with this problem while I lived abroad--the US Dollar was taking a beating (as it has been for many years since) and my rent, in terms of how much of my salary went toward it, went up and up and up. Just because of currency exchange. Eventually my company agreed to do a "gross-up" of a certain percentage of my salary as currency exchange protection. But even better would have been just to be paid entirely in the local currency to begin with, which is the deal a lot of my expat friends had.</p> <p>Some expat packages include housing (the company simply rents a flat for you and pays for it--fantastic!), many include private international health insurance (to supplement the nationalized healthcare available in the country, for example), many include providing a tax accountant to prepare your US and international tax returns, some provide tuition assistance at the local international school for your children and some provide "flybacks" to go home once or twice a year to see family (essentially company agrees to buy or reimburse you for 2 r/t economy class, or 3 r/t business class, etc. tickets a year to the US). Also, if both sides agree that the assignment is for a limited or specified time period, most packages include moving costs (both to the foreign country AND, importantly, back to the US). So those are some things you should try to negotiate in to your package.</p> <p>That all said, living and working abroad for three years was one of my most treasured life experiences and I wouldn't change it for anything. I encourage everyone to do it if they can! I just wish I had known some of these things when I first negotiated my package--I didn't learn about many of them until I had been there a year or more and chatted with other expats about their deals. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1399072 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 19:29:29 +0000 Arden 1399072@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Weagle: Yeah my Dad lived in Saudi for awhile and he said that although he wouldn't consider bringing a family to live there in the regular cities, some if the compounds are practically mini-American towns with parks and swimming pools and everything for expats. He and my mom might move there in a year or two but they haven't decided yet.</p> <p>I'd be sad to move into a country and live on a compound though - for me the whole point if living abroad is learning and experiencing new cultures so it would be a shame to live in a bubble the whole time. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1399057 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 19:19:37 +0000 Weagle 1399057@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Arden: That is one. Totally depends on the compound. They're definitely not all that forgiving. Living in DC and having lots of military/government friends gives us lots of personal accounts and insights and into living in those countries. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1399043 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 19:13:47 +0000 Arden 1399043@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Weagle: Saudi Arabia I assume? Although usually expats in Saudi live on compounds where they are able to live however they like inside the mini-city. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1399007 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 18:45:45 +0000 Weagle 1399007@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Arden: At least in Eastern Europe I would be able to leave the house. Some of the job opportunities we've considered wouldn't allow for even that. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1399001 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 18:43:28 +0000 Arden 1399001@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Weagle: Ah ok. I would be careful with Eastern Europe as well. Obviously I love it and it's not stopping me from moving back, but attitudes towards women and loneliness is definitely a factor there too. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1398997 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 18:40:33 +0000 Weagle 1398997@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Arden: I just meant that there are no other regions that really concern us. But we wouldn't rule out the entire Middle East. There are several places we've actively looked at for relocating. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1398992 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 18:37:33 +0000 Arden 1398992@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Weagle: I wouldn't rule out all of the Middle East though! There are some Middle Eastern Muslim countries that are extremely open and great for women and families. It really depends on the place. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1398983 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 18:32:42 +0000 Weagle 1398983@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>We've discussed this a lot as well. Our only automatic "nos" are countries with very strict rules and attitudes towards women. Mainly the Middle East. We've just decided that my isolation and loneliness isn't worth it. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1398890 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 17:34:16 +0000 Silva 1398890@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@scg00387: no advice, but that sounds really exciting! :happy: </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1398762 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 16:41:05 +0000 looch 1398762@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Having lived abroad, it is important to determine what kind of experience you want. An expat one or a local one. It isn't really possible to do both.</p> <p>If you go expat, think about international schools in your native language. You will also probably make expat friends and you won't get immersed in the local culture. If you don't already know the language, chances are you will not learn much, so this is good for the short term.</p> <p>If you go local, you need to be at last conversational in the language. Schools and doctors in local language, friends and culture as well. You will learn the language, but you will possibly sacrifice some of your kid's prior learning as they learn a new language.</p> <p>As with everything, consider your compensation. A lot of people make the mistake of accepting the salary in US dollars and are shocked when they can't make ends meet because of currency exchange rates. You also have to file taxes in the US and country where you are residing and if you haven't done it before, it can be complex and require an accountant.</p> <p>Lastly, the company doesn't always have your best interest in mind, they aren't going to send you if it costs them too much and they can find a local talent, so you have to negotiate like a hard a**. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1398709 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 16:21:33 +0000 septca 1398709@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>In addition to the things already mentioned, I would be interested in health care, public transportation availability or the ease of driving, language, friendlieness towards foreigners, weather, and whether it was close to other fun places... for example, I would be *thrilled* to move somewhere in Europe because it would mean easy access to thousands of wonderful weekend destinations by train or short plane ride. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1398702 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 16:19:44 +0000 JoJoGirl 1398702@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Definitely ease of access to visit fam/have them visit you. But that's less about the country itself and more about where you are (ie near an international airport). That's probably the only thing I'd really worry about other than the obvious health and safety stuff.... assuming you're already taking language/cultural barrier concerns into account. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1398701 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 16:19:01 +0000 loveisstrange 1398701@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Things I would consider:</p> <p>Language barriers, is it a language you know or are willing to learn?<br /> Drastic cultural differences (attitudes towards women, religious extremism, etc)<br /> Medical system is important if you plan to have babies there<br /> Housing quality<br /> Access to amenities you consider important<br /> Also, consider the attitudes towards Americans in that country. It's not something you think of right away, but it's a factor worth considering.<br /> Cost of travel home</p> <p>We live in the UK (we're American) and it wasn't a huge change. There are some differences that take getting used to, but nothing catastrophic. I had my DD on the NHS here. If we were staying military, our next station would have been Japan. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1398699 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 16:18:20 +0000 Arden 1398699@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Pollution is an important consideration. </p> <p>Safety, including political climate as well as crime rates.</p> <p>Cultural differences that would be hard for you to live with/adjust to (gender norms, attitudes towards women, etc).</p> <p>Quality of available healthcare options/emergency services.</p> <p>Cost of flights back home if you will want to visit family...</p> <p>I don't have any "absolute no" countries, but it would take some serious consideration if we were offered positions in China (pollution), India (safety, especially for women), or Serbia (personal experience).</p> <p>My preference would be Europe, the Middle East, or parts of South America. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-factors-to-consider-re-international-living#post-1398637 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 15:58:53 +0000 immabeetoo 1398637@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>We are hopeful that an ex-pat position (2-3 years) will be in DH's future at his company. He wants to talk about the locations that we absolutely would not want to consider living/working this week - so tell me what factors you think would be important!</p> <p>Right off the bat, pollution comes to mind (I've been to China and wouldn't want to live there or raise kids there long-term I don't think) and of course, schools. It's my understanding that all the locations are near bigger cities and would have access to ex-pat/English schools if we chose that route.</p> <p>What else would go into your decision! I'm so excited my reaction is to say yes to anywhere, but I need to be more rational. </p>