Hellobee Boards Topic: where do you draw the line

Hellobee Boards Topic: where do you draw the line https://boards.hellobee.com/ Pregnancy, Baby and Parenting blog, by Hellobee en Tue, 05 May 2026 01:07:30 +0000 littlejoy on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731168 Mon, 01 May 2017 23:28:10 +0000 littlejoy 2731168@https://boards.hellobee.com/ @Mrs. Sketchbook: Yep - we do natural consequences too. I'm pretty sure LO would laugh if I tried timeout, so it's not that I'm against it for others ... I just know it wouldn't work for us. :) Our dog has nipped our kid in the face twice, so I am really sensitive to her messing with the dog. I saw it happen both times, and didn't feel the dog was at fault at all (is that horrible??), so we still have our dog, and I'm just better at separating them when I can tell LO is tormenting her. Mrs. Sketchbook on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731163 Mon, 01 May 2017 22:53:21 +0000 Mrs. Sketchbook 2731163@https://boards.hellobee.com/ @Mrs. Champagne: I mentioned this to OP as well, but definitely check out the book "Raising Cain" which is a great primer for how to manage boys. Not sure what you're religious affiliation is, but this book is completely secular psychology book with zero religious affiliation. I really liked it because it rides that middle line between "boys will be boys" (common Christian angle), and "boys are no different from girls, don't even breathe it." It has been two years since I read it, but the overall message is that boys tend to act out more as young children (baby boys actually cry more than girl babies), so it takes more to soothe them through the rough spots, but that the expectations of masculinity (stiff upper lip, etc.) make it so that parents are actually less accepting of their boys 'feelings, which just makes the situation worse and worse, because the boys internalize all the negative emotions instead of expressing them. Time and trigger avoidance are probably the best tools for dealing with the issue, but after that I say extreme empathy is my best tool, and even at 4 my son and I have had some really amazing conversations in those moments where I have the willpower to lean into his feelings instead of away from them. jape14 on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731120 Mon, 01 May 2017 19:18:41 +0000 jape14 2731120@https://boards.hellobee.com/ Disclaimer: I haven't dealt with this kind of physical aggression/violent behavior with my own LO, but I do study self-regulation and behavior so I'm coming from that angle. It's hard to comment on what's "normal" and what's not but, in general, a 4-year-old should have enough developing self-regulation skills to, most of the time, recognize that physical aggression is not an appropriate response (these skills start coming online around 2.5) and be able to begin inhibiting these behaviors without extensive parental involvement. However, this assumes that your child has typically-developing self-regulatory skills and has begun to develop other strategies for regulating emotions (e.g., naming feelings or redirecting aggression as others have mentioned above). So, I think the advice to help your son work on those things is good advice. This is a great parent-focused resource that has some good advice on how to scaffold self-regulation skills in young children: <a href="https://www.naeyc.org/files/yc/file/201107/Self-Regulation_Florez_OnlineJuly2011.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://www.naeyc.org/files/yc/file/201107/Self-Regulation_Florez_OnlineJuly2011.pdf</a> Beyond that, though, it seems to me to be problematic to distinguish between "normal" behaviors -- i.e., situations where you think his physical aggression is appropriate -- and "non-normal." A 4-year-old is unlikely to be able to appreciate the nuance you might see across these situations, and so by reacting differently when he behaves aggressively in different situations, he is likely unclear as to why it's okay to behave that way sometimes but not others. I would encourage you to think about a consistent approach you can apply across all situations where this might occur -- so, in all of the examples you provided, not just the dog scenario that seems to really be bothering you. littlebug on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731118 Mon, 01 May 2017 19:15:02 +0000 littlebug 2731118@https://boards.hellobee.com/ We are seeing this, too. Since he turned 4, MAJOR spike in aggressive behavior. And huge meltdowns. Swings in emotions so big, we just can't keep up. Drop off at daycare is an absolute nightmare, and I have panic attacks walking in to pick him up because his reports have gotten so bad. I know my friends with boys have all said that 4 was especially hard, but to me, this goes a step further than just 4 year old normal stuff. He got mad at his teacher one day and bashed his [own] head against the wall! A lot of what @gingerbebe: says makes sense, but I think with D we're dealing with sensory issues, as well. He hates loud noises, gets scared in big crowds... and what seems to calm him down (if you get to him when he's still reachable) is textural stuff - a silicone potholder seems to be his thing. I'm meeting with a family counselor next week to discuss his issues and talk about bring him in for therapy. And we also have applied for an Early Intervention evaluation. Good luck, Mama. It is so hard! But I'm sure you're doing a great job! Mrs. Champagne on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731113 Mon, 01 May 2017 18:50:25 +0000 Mrs. Champagne 2731113@https://boards.hellobee.com/ My son does this (just turned 3) but not to the dogs.... to his sister. She's 10 months old :( It's purely attention seeking and it's much worse if I have a friend over or my dad or someone who is talking to me and not DS. He immediately will walk by DD and smack her or push her or step on her fingers. Ignoring it doesn't work, talking it to death doesn't work, screaming doesn't work (really proud of those moments...) Not sure what else to do. He's great with his friends and at preschool. But for some reason he cannot be nice to DD. I started a chart today and he will get one sticker a day if he doesn't hurt her all day (literally never happens). 5 stickers in a row= special day out. I've tried the time out/say sorry but it doesn't work at all and sometimes he smacks her and says "ok I need time out" I'm wondering if I need to 100% ignore the behaviour. Remove dd from the room and not mention it to him.. Sorry, I'm really struggling with this and didn't mean to thread jack but I just started typing what I was thinking! reverie on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731109 Mon, 01 May 2017 18:40:29 +0000 reverie 2731109@https://boards.hellobee.com/ @gingerbebe: I'm cutting and pasting that to my husband. So many of my friends have older daughter's and I have seen a difference personally just in general... so either we suck at parents or my son might be wired a bit differently. He definitely could use some screaming time... he really loves to do that when the baby is sleeping ;) gingerbebe on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731105 Mon, 01 May 2017 18:35:46 +0000 gingerbebe 2731105@https://boards.hellobee.com/ @reverie: there seems to be some controversy with this but I've heard that age 4 boys get a testosterone spike that calms down by 5 and then returns when they hit puberty. So to those who buy into this, it's like dealing with toddler puberty - lots of feelings, violence or aggression, rage, growth spurts, body aches, growing into limbs, generally feeling uncomfortable. While I'm not sure where I stand on this issue, being a mom of 2 boys (one of which is almost 3) I pay lot of attention to these types of things and a lot of my boy mom friends tell me 4 is hard (not that it isn't for girls, but the physical/aggression stuff). We have stints of that kind of outbursting with our eldest and we've incorporated a lot of physical and loud play into our day (chasing, yelling, shouting, dancing to loud music, singing loudly, noisy toys, etc) with both parents, but he definitely has built in time with dad every day to get a lot of wrestling and sprinting and all that out. It's helped his behavior enormously and understands better the contrast of appropriate settings for certain sensations or noises or movements or physical touches by exposing him to a range of those things every day. Mrs. Sketchbook on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731102 Mon, 01 May 2017 18:29:40 +0000 Mrs. Sketchbook 2731102@https://boards.hellobee.com/ @littlejoy: I agree too! We don't have a "NO TIMEOUT" policy, but once we started with the empathy and leaning into the problem stuff, the need for time out diminished and I don't think we have used it in years. Plus, we do more natural consequences, like if you throw X I take X away, rather than having a consequence like time out that is not associated with the situation. This is not to say I am a perfect parent by any means....when things all hit the fan at once I definitely lose my temper! When LO2 was a baby, I had to take him somewhere or check on him in the crib or something and my dog actually bit my older DS. It barely broke the skin and was more of a "warning" but still...I definitely learned the hard way to keep them separate, that even a moment of alone time is really dangerous. I typically had an easier time with that, but at that moment our neighbors had just gotten a new puppy so ours was inside more often than usual so they wouldn't be barking at each other/trying to get to each other, etc. Dog stuff is stressful and I definitely advocate everyone having their own separate space. Our dog died less than a year later and I don't think we have any plans to get another any time soon. It was a serious strain on our family. reverie on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731068 Mon, 01 May 2017 16:46:56 +0000 reverie 2731068@https://boards.hellobee.com/ @Coral: I really don't think so. he's in preschool and the teachers haven't mentioned anything out of the ordinary. they say he is more of an observer and doesn't talk much in school. reverie on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731066 Mon, 01 May 2017 16:45:12 +0000 reverie 2731066@https://boards.hellobee.com/ @Mrs. Sketchbook: So true. I need to try and have a more candid talk with him, he's very vocal. The behaviors started at the end of my pregnancy (so obviously a big change going on) and my brother also passed away when I was 38 weeks. I didn't necessarily deal with anything correctly and I wonder if our family dynamic is still suffering a bit. Things are a lot better now that there isn't a newborn and that stress over our heads. It helps just knowing we aren't alone. Coral on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731065 Mon, 01 May 2017 16:44:50 +0000 Coral 2731065@https://boards.hellobee.com/ @reverie: Hugs. :heart: Does he show any signs of hyperactivity? Mrs. Sketchbook on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731061 Mon, 01 May 2017 16:39:11 +0000 Mrs. Sketchbook 2731061@https://boards.hellobee.com/ @reverie: In hindsight I think my DS had a lot of "trauma" associated with DS2's birth. Last night he told me he loved me, his dad, his grandparents, and himself a "100" and DS2 only a 2 (out of 100 I guess!). So we had a big talk about what it means to be a big brother and how it feels like he has so many more responsibilities in comparison to his younger brother and how he gets in trouble for things that his brother can do no problem. Of course my DS is now 4.5 and so we can have those conversations. But at 3 it is harder for them to have any perspective. littlejoy on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731058 Mon, 01 May 2017 16:35:09 +0000 littlejoy 2731058@https://boards.hellobee.com/ His behavior seems normal ... my LO gets a bit wonky when she's going through growth spurts and/or is tired. We don't do time-outs or force apologies, so my approach would be different. And, it's not ideal, but we have to actively keep our LO and dog apart when she's acting this way. I don't want to threaten to remove the dog from the home, because it's not actually going to happen. We just have to talk with her about how she's making the dog feel. We use a lot of talking about being kind, and I definitely suggest the book that @Mrs. Sketchbook: mentioned. It's amazing!! reverie on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731057 Mon, 01 May 2017 16:33:43 +0000 reverie 2731057@https://boards.hellobee.com/ @Mrs. Sketchbook: Thanks :) I keep hoping 4 is the age things change for us. It seems like his behavior changed in my 8th month of pregnancy (with a lot of other family stuff going on) and since then we've just been riding out the threenager rollercoaster. Things are a lot better but still bad. It's so hard to know what the right move is! Mrs. Sketchbook on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731054 Mon, 01 May 2017 16:25:32 +0000 Mrs. Sketchbook 2731054@https://boards.hellobee.com/ @reverie: also try "Raising Cain" and "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk." Both are very helpful and have become a sort of script in our hours! Mrs. Sketchbook on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731053 Mon, 01 May 2017 16:24:09 +0000 Mrs. Sketchbook 2731053@https://boards.hellobee.com/ Lots of empathy, talking through issues ("I can see you're really angry, can you tell me about it? Can you draw your anger with this red crayon?") and lots of trigger avoidance! Also a lot of intentional roughhousing when you can fit it into your schedule. I can commiserate because I actually had to take my kid out of a school and bring him home for this issue. It started to improve around 4. reverie on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731050 Mon, 01 May 2017 16:09:01 +0000 reverie 2731050@https://boards.hellobee.com/ @Mamaof2: that's something I"ll look into, thanks :) Mamaof2 on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731041 Mon, 01 May 2017 15:33:20 +0000 Mamaof2 2731041@https://boards.hellobee.com/ @reverie: My DS was 3.5/4 when I started seeing a Behavioral Analyst about his behavior - I was at the end of my rope and didn't know what to do. She doesn't work with the kids but works with the parents and gives you things to try at home - starting a journal is great - each week I would read to her my journal and we would get ideas of what to try next -it was a big help! reverie on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731036 Mon, 01 May 2017 15:17:45 +0000 reverie 2731036@https://boards.hellobee.com/ @LBee: he's met with an automatic time out and also has to apologize to the dog. She is 100% my shadow so I don't think he takes stabs at her that we don't notice. This particular incident I went to the bathroom alone (silly me) and the dog was waiting outside the door. I also work from home and she's in the office with me all day... so at least from that perspective we are covered. LBee on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731031 Mon, 01 May 2017 15:03:12 +0000 LBee 2731031@https://boards.hellobee.com/ Without knowing your child, I cannot comment on the normalcy of the behavior. I do think that the best thing you can do for your child is to start trying to teach him tools to redirect his aggression as opposed to try to deem it normal or abnormal. Regardless of whether it's normal, he needs to learn how to deal with it in a more socially acceptable manner the emotions he is feeling (i.e. hitting a pillow or something). One thing you also didn't mention was how you are handling the aggression? What is your means of discipline? In your specific example: If my son ever showed aggression towards our dogs like hitting intentionally at an age where he knows better, we would have a big discussion about how owning a pet is a privilege and that if he cannot treat them properly they will have to go to another home. I've been around too many animals who have been traumatized by children to not take this very seriously. You would have to be prepared to follow through, though. If our son violates our dog (usually grabbing her by the collar and trying to drag her somewhere), he gets an automatic time out and has to apologize to her. He often says that she (the dog) can't talk (so he shouldn't have to apologize I guess?) and we remind him that is why it is important to respect her boundaries. I would also provide your dog with a safe space that your son does not have access. I am of the belief that behavior you observe is usually occurring more often, you simply aren't seeing it. reverie on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731029 Mon, 01 May 2017 15:01:50 +0000 reverie 2731029@https://boards.hellobee.com/ @bloved: the more I reach out the more I see other people going through it too. I guess we just don't broadcast struggles like this to our friends. He is so sweet and caring most of the time, but it's scary when he snaps. bloved on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731024 Mon, 01 May 2017 14:56:07 +0000 bloved 2731024@https://boards.hellobee.com/ No advice but definitely commiseration. My son will be 4 in June and I see so.much.agressive behavior. Whenever angry, he will kick or hit at us, and/or purposely try to scratch us. I am constantly debating what is typical "threenager" behavior and what should be a red flag. I'm very curious (and somewhat nervous) to see what other posters think. Possibly unrelated, but we are taking him to see a developmentalist in the summer because he has many sensory issues (freaks out when getting hair cut saying it hurts, only wants "soft" clothing, can't stand loud noises, etc). reverie on "where do you draw the line" https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/where-do-you-draw-the-line#post-2731020 Mon, 01 May 2017 14:49:09 +0000 reverie 2731020@https://boards.hellobee.com/ Hey All, I feel like I just check in here every few months to crowd source but here I am again. Just wondering where to draw the line between normal behavior vs. I should speak to my pediatrician as a next step. My son will be 4 in June and lashes out violently from time to time. There is what I think is "normal" hitting or pinching myself or my husband when we discipline him. This is not every day but every week for sure. He has a younger sister who is pushing 14 months. He sometimes will be rough with her when she is playing with a toy he wants or if she gets too close to a block tower he made. While not acceptable I think this is mostly normal too. The part that is upsetting me is he is rough with our dog. He went through a phase of pulling her tail. It got a rise out of us so then he did it for reaction. That is mostly done (I can't remember the last time that happened) but he will still occasionally hit her with no prompting. It's mostly when he's over tire and it's nearly 100% attention seeking but I'm just not sure what to do. My dog is an angel and thankfully has never even growled at him but it's not fair to her and obviously I want to curb this behavior. He's definitely going through a major growth spurt and needs like a 3 hour nap on top of the 11ish hours he gets overnight. I keep hoping that we'll phase out of the violent tendancies / was blaming things on the changing family dynamic but his sister has been around as long as he can remember at this point. Any tips / tricks / thoughts? I just started keeping a record today to present to his doctor in June if we don't seek action before then. I think the dog aggression is probably happening weekly-ish. Maybe a bit less.