https://boards.hellobee.com/ Pregnancy, Baby and Parenting blog, by Hellobee en Fri, 01 May 2026 02:58:19 +0000 https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations/page/2#post-1402500 Thu, 06 Feb 2014 00:13:43 +0000 lepamplemousse 1402500@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I think the problem with this "court of public opinion" is that there are many misunderstood pieces of information that people are taking as fact.</p> <p>I read the article Yerpie110 posted and it's very interesting. The fact is, Soon Yi was never Woody Allen's adopted daughter. He didn't live with her or help raise her. He wasn't even a father figure to her. She was Mia Farrow and Andre Previn's adopted daughter. I think it's still wrong that Wood Allen married his girlfriend's daughter but he didn't marry his own daughter. So he didn't commit incest, he was just a major a-hole.</p> <p>I also thought Moses Farrow's (Mia and Woody's other son) comments are very interesting. </p> <p><a href="http://gma.yahoo.com/dylan-farrow-39-brother-moses-says-mia-farrow-200355316--abc-news-celebrities.html" rel="nofollow">http://gma.yahoo.com/dylan-farrow-39-brother-moses-says-mia-farrow-200355316--abc-news-celebrities.html</a></p> <p>The bottom line is that none of us really know all of the facts. We know sensationalized bits and pieces that we've formed ill informed opinions on. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations/page/2#post-1402466 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 23:40:00 +0000 Boheme 1402466@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@Arden: YES. Thank you! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations/page/2#post-1402019 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 20:14:12 +0000 Arden 1402019@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@kjpugs: I absolutely agree - the "but she's adopted so its ok" argument is sick on so many levels. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations/page/2#post-1402013 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 20:12:13 +0000 Arden 1402013@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I'm bothered by the "is she telling the truth or isn't she" discussion. Rage Against the Minivan put my feelings into words very well. You can read the whole (excellent) post here - <a href="http://www.rageagainsttheminivan.com/2014/02/on-woody-allen-dylan-farrow-and.html?m=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.rageagainsttheminivan.com/2014/02/on-woody-allen-dylan-farrow-and.html?m=1</a></p> <p>Here is an excerpt: </p> <p>"Sexual abuse is a profound trauma for a child that can have far-reaching psychological ramifications. It is one of the most difficult and damaging events that can occur to a child. As a therapist, the revelation of sexual abuse requires compassion and concern. It is a gross violation and it produces overwhelming shame. Many women (or men) who have been sexually abused will never share their stories, choosing to bear this secret alone. It is quite rare for someone to lie about sexual abuse. It is also quite difficult for people to talk about. Therefore, when someone discloses a history of sexual abuse, it should be taken seriously.</p> <p>Now, let’s go over the valid reasons to accuse someone of lying as they report their sexual abuse history:</p> <p>Q: Is it okay to assume a person is lying because the perpetrator seems really nice?<br /> A: No.</p> <p>Q: What if the perpetrator is really talented?<br /> A: No.</p> <p>Q: What if the victim has a history of drug use?<br /> A. Still not okay. In fact, sexual abuse and later drug abuse are correlated.</p> <p>Q: Okay, what if the victim seems kind of unstable or histrionic?<br /> A: Nope.</p> <p>Q: What if the victim’s mom seems prone to drama?<br /> A: No.</p> <p>Q: What if the victim’s mom got a divorce?</p> <p>A: Still no</p> <p>Q: What if I read a blog post by someone who knew them?<br /> A: No.</p> <p>Q: What if someone on facebook convinced me it’s not true?<br /> A: No.</p> <p>Q: What if I really don’t want it to be true because it makes me uncomfortable?<br /> A: No</p> <p>In review, IT’S NEVER OKAY TO QUESTION SOMEONE’S ACCOUNT OF SEXUAL ABUSE unless you are the accused or representing the accused in a court of law. For everyone else, it’s not of our business, and publicly speculating that it’s a lie is perpetuating the rape culture that tells women that they should stay silent. Or worse, that it’s up for debate if they come forward.</p> <p>Wondering if Dylan Farrow is telling the truth? It doesn’t matter. It’s not our place to question her story." </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations/page/2#post-1400945 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 13:31:08 +0000 MsLipGloss 1400945@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@mrbee: It was your use of the phrase *preponderance of the evidence* . . . which is a much lower burden of proof than beyond a reasonable doubt. Perhaps you meant *totality of the circumstances* as a reference to the publicly available information as opposed to a burden of proof the prosecution would need to satisfy in order to secure a conviction. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations/page/2#post-1400661 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 12:01:20 +0000 mrbee 1400661@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@MsLipGloss: I don't really get what you were getting at then... I posted something supporting safeguards in our legal system, and you replied, "I realize that proving abuse can be incredibly difficult, but it also shouldn't be easier to prosecute someone because they are accused of a heinous crime (because the stakes are much much higher)."</p> <p>But I didn't suggest that... not sure if you thought I was suggesting that I lower the standard at a criminal trial? Because all I meant is that I don't want to watch his films any more. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations/page/2#post-1400636 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 11:55:25 +0000 MsLipGloss 1400636@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@mrbee: I agree - I wouldn't leave him alone with my kiddo either! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations/page/2#post-1400567 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 11:42:36 +0000 mrbee 1400567@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>&lt;&lt; The statement implies that our legal system provides too much *shelter* for an accused and not enough for a victim, and that it [the system] is incapable of getting the job done. I have met several people who all held that opinion until they were personally accused of something. The system is not perfect by any means, but our standards of proof are what they are for a good reason. &gt;&gt;</p> <p>I agree... that's what I was attempting to convey here: "I think everyone deserves judicial standards in any court! That's one of the foundations of our justice system."</p> <p>&lt;&lt; If you were to remove the celebrity surrounding this case, and instead the accused was a friend/colleague of yours, would you still apply your personal standard of PoE to determine your friend's guilt/innocence? &gt;&gt;</p> <p>I firmly believe that before someone's liberty is taken away by the state, that the state should have to prove their case against a very strong standard.</p> <p>If it's just me and my friend though, then I don't have the power to determine his formal guilt or innocence. But course I am free to use my own standard in making decisions that affect me or my family. I don't know if Woody Allen would be held guilty in a court of law (even if the statute hadn't run out), but I sure as heck am not going to leave him alone with my kids! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations/page/2#post-1400523 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 11:33:46 +0000 MsLipGloss 1400523@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@nana87: I agree that very few things are black and white. But for every case/investigation you can point to where there was a botched investigation or poor follow through for rape/abuse victims, I could point to an equal if not greater number of cases where allegations were zealously pursued and the wrong lives were destroyed in the process. These are the expected casualties of our legal system. It certainly beats the alternative, however imperfect it may be. </p> <p>Quotes such as this, however, only serve to create expectations that allegations must be accepted without question or without hesitation, lest we fall into the *victim shaming* category. I don't deny that that has happened in the past, and likely far too often. But the fact that we have an adversarial system and that defendants are forced to defend themselves against allegations means that the victim will always be, to some degree, questioned and doubted, because that is the cornerstone of our legal system . . . innocent until proven guilty. Encouraging the idea that a victim should never be questioned or doubted creates an impossible situation . . . or by challenging allegations and defending against allegations--the natural process in a criminal case--that in so doing, a victim is automatically shamed, can only serve to debase our judicial process/system. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations/page/2#post-1400350 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 11:03:17 +0000 nana87 1400350@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@MsLipGloss: I agree in general about what you say about the legal system in general--but the context of the quote is not actually about the legal system at all (which as you say is about public opinion): the article's argument is that since the statute of limitations has ended, what's at stake in all this are individual moviegoers' decisions of whether to watch WA films and actors/writers/producers/etc individual decisions of whether to work with him. My point in posting the article and the quote was that whether Allen is or isn't guilty, I am going to make an individual choice not to watch his movies, and I think Farrow deserves compassion</p> <p>More importantly though, I think the quote isn't making an argument so much about legal standards in actual courts, which I agree shouldn't change, but the serious problem in our culture of blaming the victim in these cases. Like, there was the recent scandal with this year's Heisman trophy winner--he was accused of rape and the police so completely botched the investigation that the case was never brought to trial. Or the Steubenville cases where public opinion demonized the girl and empathized with the boys who actually were found guilty. Or there was a similar case, I think in Missouri (don't have time to look it up...). Or recently, there has been a lot in the press about how colleges and universities badly handle charges of rape on campuses. I don't think it's a straight-forward, black and white issue, and I thought the quote was interesting because it brought the gray areas to light, for me at least. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations/page/2#post-1400258 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 10:35:38 +0000 MsLipGloss 1400258@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@nana87: @mrbee: There are no judicial safeguards in the court of public opinion because it's not a *court*. I don't like what that quote implies, both for future victims who decide to come forward or for people who will someday be accused of committing a crime (because none of us have any control over what we are accused of doing, no matter how baseless or absurd the allegations may in fact be!). The statement implies that our legal system provides too much *shelter* for an accused and not enough for a victim, and that it [the system] is incapable of getting the job done. I have met several people who all held that opinion until they were personally accused of something. The system is not perfect by any means, but our standards of proof are what they are for a good reason. </p> <p>@mrbee: That's a fairly light standard for such serious allegations. I realize that proving abuse can be incredibly difficult, but it also shouldn't be easier to prosecute someone because they are accused of a heinous crime (because the stakes are much much higher). If you were to remove the celebrity surrounding this case, and instead the accused was a friend/colleague of yours, would you still apply your personal standard of PoE to determine your friend's guilt/innocence? </p> <p>ETA: This is not intended to be antagonistic, truly. Just food for thought with regard to a propensity to mold facts to fit an assumption based on (our mutually held!) moral disgust for such crimes. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations/page/2#post-1400192 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 10:16:29 +0000 mrbee 1400192@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@MsLipGloss: it's my own personal standard of proof though. I'm not talking about a real court. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations/page/2#post-1400184 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 10:13:41 +0000 MsLipGloss 1400184@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@mrbee: preponderance of the evidence (generally regarded as a 51% probability) is a civil standard, not a criminal standard. Generally, for felony child abuse, the standard of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations/page/2#post-1400133 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 09:58:42 +0000 kjpugs 1400133@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Also- something interesting I thought of. When people say "he wasn't convicted!" - neither was, say, OJ Simpson. Or Casey Anthony. Yet they are CERTAINLY guilty based on public opinion. Wonder why that's not the case here? I'd say because of his celebrity but OJ was a celebrity and still his "innocent" verdict is a running joke. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations/page/2#post-1400128 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 09:57:29 +0000 kjpugs 1400128@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I may be biased because, like many of you, I found him to be creepy. I think it's hard to think there isn't at least some truth to Dylan's allegations when you consider that he married his adopted daughter. I'm adopted and when people say "oh she's adopted!" that makes me grossed out because my family is MY FAMILY. Period, the end.</p> <p>I know Woody's camp seems to be pushing that Mia made this up to get back at Woody and drilled it into Dylan to the point where SHE believed it. I know it's possible to make a child believe something that never happened, but I think that's far less plausable than Woody having actually done what she claimed. So I'm inclined to believe Dylan. I would boycott Woody Allen movies but I've never seen one, so I'll just continue that. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations#post-1400117 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 09:54:05 +0000 mrbee 1400117@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@nana87: I think everyone deserves judicial standards in any court! That's one of the foundations of our justice system.</p> <p>That said, I think the preponderance of evidence is pretty damning and even without a trial, I won't watch his films. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations#post-1400096 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 09:47:47 +0000 nana87 1400096@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I thought this was a really interesting article about the implications for watching his movies after this has all come out: <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2014/02/03/3239511/woody-allen/" rel="nofollow">http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2014/02/03/3239511/woody-allen/</a></p> <p>I've been mixed before on my opinions of his movies--like of his recent ones, I LOVED "Midnight in Paris" but absolutely hated "Matchpoint." I hadn't seen "Blue Jasmine" yet but based on the points this article makes, I don't think I'm going to! </p> <p>Also, this was a quote in the article above from a different writer, but I thought it was really compelling:<br /> “If you are saying things like ‘We can’t really know what happened’ and extra-specially pleading on behalf of the extra-special Woody Allen, then you are saying that his innocence is more presumptive than hers. You are saying that he is on trial, not her: he deserves judicial safeguards in the court of public opinion, but she does not." </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations#post-1399935 Wed, 05 Feb 2014 08:57:28 +0000 MsLipGloss 1399935@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>I am not a WA fan--I don't care for his movies and generally avoid them because they aren't my taste. His relationship with SYP doesn't sit well with me, but that being said, I don't believe he abused Dylan. I just don't buy it. What I do buy is a little girl who wanted nothing more than for her mother to love her, who was strongly influenced by the events occurring around her. </p> <p>@yerpie110: @JoJoGirl: Yep. As flat as a pancake may be, there are 2 sides. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations#post-1399651 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 23:39:46 +0000 Kimberlybee 1399651@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@scg00387: What a sick, sick man to even think that and put it out there! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations#post-1399595 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 23:03:18 +0000 NurseMommy 1399595@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@scg00387: that quote is so disturbing and sickening. Puke. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations#post-1399560 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 22:45:09 +0000 Ardently 1399560@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@scg00387: ugh. You are right, that quote is nauseating. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations#post-1399536 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 22:34:39 +0000 immabeetoo 1399536@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>Again, I'm bringing dlisted to the boards (I'm glad @mrsjazz you read too so I don't feel like such a scuzz ha!!)</p> <p>But he posted this quote today -- an interview that Woody Allen did with People Magazine in 1979:</p> <p> “I’m open-minded about sex. I’m not above reproach; if anything, I’m below reproach. I mean, if I was caught in a love nest with 15 12-year-old girls tomorrow, people would think, yeah, I always knew that about him. Nothing I could come up with would surprise anyone. I admit to it all.”</p> <p>Ugh. Others have already articulated my thoughts above, but this quote... heebie jeebies. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations#post-1398087 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 13:07:45 +0000 mrsjazz 1398087@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@yerpie110: Also, although I "side" with Dylan--there are plenty of people believe Woody Allen completely and that's okay, too. We all have our reasons and none of us were there! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations#post-1398080 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 13:03:43 +0000 JoJoGirl 1398080@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@yerpie110: Thank you for posting that. It's amazing how easy it is to fall for 'simple' storylines in the media, when we all know in real life there aren't many things that are that clear cut. I feel terribly for Dylan and I'm no fan of Woody Allen, but that entire first section about Mia/Sinatra/Soon-Yi was fascinating to read. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations#post-1398053 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 12:53:54 +0000 cascademom 1398053@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@lauraeabel: Mia Farrow's stated on Twitter that she longer associates with Polanski. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations#post-1398024 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 12:48:57 +0000 yerpie110 1398024@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@2PeasinaPod: @mrsjazz: aww thanks i appreciate it :) </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations#post-1398018 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 12:48:02 +0000 cookiemomster 1398018@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@yerpie110 i found that article very interesting, thanks for sharing. I've never cared for woody Allen's movies just because he seems fairly pretentious, but I glad to have a more rounded perspective on the issue. </p> <p>@2peasinapod I don't really see how the author was dismissive of Dylan at all. He reiterates a few times that he believes she and her brother think the events happened so no matter what their pain is real and he hopes they find piece. I do think the author is more critical of Mia farrow than anything else, and honestly knowing about her friendship with Roman Polanski given what her daughters situation makes me angrier than anything I've read.</p> <p>I don't want people to think I'm on woody Allen's "side" with this, because I really don't think this is the publics business at all- I've been a victim of sexual abuse and would never have been able to handle this much media coverage about what happened, so i can't help but feel completely invasive even though the victim here chose to address the matter publicly.<br /> Mostly it's just interesting to hear the other side, and it's helped at me to remember that it isn't anyone but this family's place to decide what happened when it comes down to it. </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations#post-1398008 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 12:44:53 +0000 mrsjazz 1398008@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@yerpie110: I didn't think you were siding with Allen at all! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations#post-1397895 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 12:20:04 +0000 2PeasinaPod 1397895@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@yerpie110: I'm sorry...I definitely didn't mean to imply that you were siding with him. I moreso was commenting on that guy and the article about the other side and how it didn't really sway me. I think the guy who wrote that article was way to dismissive of Dylan. But certainly didn't mean to imply anything!! </p> https://boards.hellobee.com/topic/woody-allen-allegations#post-1397775 Tue, 04 Feb 2014 11:56:14 +0000 yerpie110 1397775@https://boards.hellobee.com/ <p>@2PeasinaPod: @Foodnerd81: @mrsjazz: I just want to be clear in that I don't "side" with Woody Allen. There are no winners in situations like this, ever. Just given my line of work where unfortunately, I determine whether or not allegations of physical and sexual abuse are true, I tend to view stories like this with a different lens, and that's really not worth getting into because it's not important. We may never know what happened, but what we do know, and what IS important, is that Dylan's PTSD and trauma are real, and I would never discount that for a second. Sadly, the children are always the ones most impacted, and the impact of sexual abuse is difficult to overcome. I feel for her and the pain she must be experiencing. I admire her so much for having the courage to share her story. </p>