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@Mamaof2: thank you, I learned something today, didn't even know that existed!
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Okay ladies, I think the best way to move this forward is to read the book and then discuss after we've all read it.
I propose that we target the week of May 16th to begin the discussions.
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@looch: sounds good to me!
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@looch: sounds good. thanks!
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Ladies, I have a problem! I misplaced my copy of the book, I have looked everywhere and the only thing I can think of is that I left it on the train last week. I only got through chapter 3 and I don't think I'll have the ability to get another copy and finish in time....thoughts?
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@looch: I won't finish by next week either. I think there is plenty to discuss in chapters 1-3 for one week, if you want to get another copy and break down the discussion into more manageable pieces, like 3 chapters at a time.
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@looch: I agree with @honeybear:
I am reading this book slowly (just don't have time) but I love it!!
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Just to add last night when I was reading I got scared for DS to grow up - kids are so freaking mean - I pray that somehow DS escapes all that
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Alright, let me see about getting another copy somehow.
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According to my kindle, I'm only 30% done the book! Usually I can fly through a book this size, but I find myself really thinking/applying what I'm reading from this one. To be honest, the book kind of scares me. Lol
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I came back to check in--looks like I should start the conversation! I'm through the first three chapters and a little more of the book, so here goes:
Chapter 1:
I thought they made generally good points here. Their language of "emotional literacy" strikes me as pointing to a big part of the answer: Boys should read more good literature. If you want to develop a child's vocabulary and give examples, there are plenty of emotive men/boys in good literature, and as an added bonus, they usually do some pretty cool stuff. They mention the influence of TV/movies, but not actual literature. I thought their examples of movies featuring "stoic" men were kind of strange. John Wayne's characters (at least in the films I've seen) aren't really emotionally inept or stoic, some of them were flawed, like many characters in fiction, but lack of emotion was never their problem.
Anyhow, as I progressed through the book, I wondered if maybe they wouldn't give some "how to do better" guide at the end, and lo and behold, there is one. And they do in fact recommend giving boys books so that they can discuss the characters' feelings (p. 242).
Chapter 2:
Apart from what felt like a (sad) anachronism when they mentioned casually that schools make "the first serious attempts to teach reading in first grade," I thought most of this chapter was relatively obvious.
I think a lot of little kids and boys in particular need to move to think (heck, I need to move a lot to think clearly!), and I don't think recess for 24 minutes cuts it. It makes sense to me that if you reduce the amount of movement/exercise a child gets, you’re very likely to be confronted with behaviors you don’t want.
I think they've put their finger on the problem in what they wrote on p. 36. Schools make it virtually impossible to find a niche or find success, especially if you don't do everything exactly “on time” (according to someone else’s arbitrarily determined timetable). Schools equate speed with intelligence, and everyone loses in that game—the kids who are “behind” feel awful, and the kids who aren’t end up in an arms race that inflicts a related type of pain. The authors’ identification of the problem is fine, but their answer to it isn’t particularly compelling. Why go to extraordinary lengths to try to preserve a child's self-esteem in the face of an esteem-crushing system, when the child isn’t the problem?
I was quite impressed that psychologists would work with parents and teachers so as not to give the child a "label" or otherwise freak them out/make them feel bad about themselves. This sounds like a thoroughly sensible approach. I hope it is used frequently.
Ch. 3:
This chapter really drives home the idea that if you want to change a child's behavior, you need to change their environment. I totally agree.
I thought the conclusion on pp. 70-71 was important--It is hard work to give children/boys solid guidance and discipline, and it takes a lot of time. It is also important to "show respect for his experience and feelings," by talking to the child, which is also hard and time consuming. It’s easy to see why it might not happen that much.
Anyhow, those are my two cents. Anyone else?
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@honeybear: Chapter two specifically scared me a bit. I can already see what they're talking about in relation to movement/exercise/recess and attention/concentration with my 3.5 year old son. He definitely needs activity to be able to function and concentrate. He also has sensory issues. That being said, he's highly intelligent (and this is not a mom-brag but a legitimate concern). He is starting to read, can do simple addition/subtraction, etc. But because of the lack of recess in our specific education system, as well as this push for teaching for testing type stuff, I fear for him. I'm afraid that he's going to "misbehave" or be unable to concentrate and be labeled as a "bad" kid because of it.
Anyway, sorry for the personal rant.
I'm in the middle of Chapter 3 still. However, I find that summary interesting because it really doesn't particularly pertain to boys....I think that's just parenting any child, right? Hard work, giving guidance and discipline, respecting emotions. Maybe it's just me (because I only have boys), but I don't think I would parent a daughter any different than that? I mean, I think you have to parent each child different, regardless of whether they're a boy or girl, just based on their personality/etc.
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I found my copy! I was in my car, under a pile of magazines.
I've gotten through chapter 3, but haven't had any time to go any further, but I can post my thoughts tonight.
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@ValentineMommy: Yes, I think their conclusion in Chapter 3 applies to girls too. They explain that boys are more likely than girls to be the subject of harsh discipline and thus to experience the emotional alienation and problems that such discipline often produces, which is why it's emphasized here.
As to your concerns about school and limited physical activity and the potential repercussions, I totally understand. I think what they wrote about schools that "work" for boys on pp. 47-49 is spot on. But I also suspect that those things are quite hard to accomplish these days. Teachers aren't really able to hug their students these days or send elementary school kids running off on "errands" around the school, right?
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You guys, i cant read this book right now. Chapter 2 was too much for me. I was so anti homeschooling and now just want to keep my kid home until middle school
we dropped him back to just 2 days a week at daycare and he is doing SO much better. I know we still have 2.5 years until K but this book scares me so much, probably because, like the authors, i have seen this soooo much. And I can so vividly see it hapening to my own kid even though there is really nothing "wrong" with him, other than an innapropriate environment and screwey expectations -
@Mrs. Lion:
I understand. I'm so glad to hear that he's doing better! It's okay to change your mind (and to homeschool!), but try not to be afraid. I think that the things they talk about occur with way more frequency than they should, but remember that these guys are psychologists, and they see the tough situations every day. Every child doesn't end up in a psychologist's office. I rather like them, but their experience has to color their perspective a little. (I had to keep reminding myself of this as I went through Chapter 4...because oh my goodness, it's rough.)
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@honeybear: thanks
I think all this reading has scewed my perspective and is making me more scared than I need to be 
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The author just spoke in my town this past week! I went to go hear him, excellent public speaker. Very funny. It was a pretty big crowd too, maybe 300 parents.... I like his attitude a lot, I still need to get the books. He mentioned that "It's a Boy" is a good book for younger boys....
we dropped him back to just 2 days a week at daycare and he is doing SO much better. I know we still have 2.5 years until K but this book scares me so much, probably because, like the authors, i have seen this soooo much. And I can so vividly see it hapening to my own kid even though there is really nothing "wrong" with him, other than an innapropriate environment and screwey expectations 
I understand. I'm so glad to hear that he's doing better! 
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