Hellobee Boards

@MrsTiz: Considering the question wasn't "how much would you need if you were poor, but not poor enough for the government to bail you out," I think it's fair of someone to answer the question assuming they still were saving for retirement (just like they were assuming they were keeping the same house/apartment, they were still paying for daycare, etc).

Perhaps if what you'd really like to see is how much people need to just pay for their house and food, you could make a new thread specifically for that. But I think it's pretty clear from the answers to this thread that people were taking the question two different ways which is resulting in two different types of answers.

@Arden: Perhaps your phrasing is getting across my point more clearly

@Arden: Like I said in one of my previous posts (http://boards.hellobee.com/topic/what-is-the-absolute-bare-minimum-salary-you-could-live-on/page/2#post-1846558), I think some people are reading just the thread title or just the poll question and answering based on that. Given just the title or just the poll question, I would agree with your interpretation of the question. But reading the OP post, it seems the OP might be asking a different question - one that still includes saving for retirement, staying in their current home, paying for their current daycare (if they have daycare), etc.

@Smurfette: Yes, but to purely answer the question, that is what is available.

And frankly, if we expect SS to be unable to pay us anything when we are able to retire, then we should absolutely be saving for our retirement...how is that not a necessity, if the social net that is supposed to help us when we retire isn't there any longer?

@yoursilverlining: I always wonder the same thing.

Meh nevermind

I don't think everyone is that far apart on this thread, honestly.

If it came down to padding a savings account for retirement or eating, are people really thinking that some of the posters on this thread would choose retirement savings over eating?

For me, retirement savings are a necessity compared to eating out, vacations, cute clothes for LO (even having a LO in the first place), having internet service, having free time (instead of a second job). But that's because I don't totally trust the US's current system for Elderly financial support and I know that some people aren't concerned with those things.

Basically you've got your private retirement savings. Then you have your Social Security payment. Then you have Medicare (which pays for Elderly medical care), then when all of those are exhausted, indigent people (only those people in the lowest income bracket) can file for Medicaid that could pay for a nursing home.

Interestingly, $20 billion of taxpayer money is used each year on people who could have afforded (by government definition) to fund their own retirements, but chose not to.
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba521/

I guess it's no different than people drawing welfare benefits during their working years, but I had no idea our country spends 20 billion each year on welfare benefits for the elderly.

Got a great suggestion to rename the Money board
as Budgeting:

http://suggestions.hellobee.com/topic/money-board

Thought that was a great idea, so we went ahead and did just that!

@mrbee: I actually like threads like these that put our differences on display. Well, I don't like that people get defensive or judgey, but I think it is interesting to see the different perspectives of (mostly) women living all over the country, whether it has to do with money, love or children. I agree w/ what a PP said that if we are on HB then we are clearly privileged to some extent but we still differ wildly when it comes to income and lifestyle. And that is so cool to me.

It is nice to talk openly on HB with people who do things differently without having the static of real life egos and politics and personal agendas. I mean, a bee can have an agenda but there is no IRL fall out for me.

I like what @looch: said- once we get in our groove, it can be hard to 'unwind' what is real and what is just our perspective, if that makes sense, and it is intriguing to see others perspectives and widen my own.
And no need to take anything personal, you know?

Anyway, I think threads like these blow the 'Does your dog have spots?' type of threads out of the water

@mrbee: yep, but variety is the spice of life, isn't it? I don't think it is just income disparity, it's also age, experience, etc and we can all learn from each other.

@looch: I sometimes feel like there are more negative/resentful comments towards those who say they need more money, and some (not all) don't really understand they may be much further along in age and in their careers. I definitely could live on way less in my late 20s (making peanuts) than i do now.

Sorry, i hope my suggestion wasn't a horrible one!

@Anagram: haha, me too. It's the internet for god's sake. It's a public forum. Many topics are going to be discussed here and if we stop talking about anything and everything because it might possibly offend someone, or is too unrealistic for someone else, this is going to be the most boring forum on the face of the earth. That is NOT something I want, because I REALLY enjoy HB.

@lizzywiz: @looch: @.twist.: Agreed. I like reading the different perspectives.

I know people in the mountains who live on $7k a year and raised two children. I also know people who lived on pretty much nothing and built their homes and grow their food.

I know people who (are a couple) lived in Manhattan for many years on $37k.

I suppose this question is asking how much you need to maintain your current lifestyle vs. how much you need to survive; because I doubt anyone needs steak when they could be eating rice and beans, if you know what I mean. No one needs more to survive than anyone else- short of some medical issues where you have to eat only lobster or sleep on a temperpedic.

There is a big difference in maintaining (or mostly maintaining) your current lifestyle and getting by. I am very fortunate in my lifestyle. My husband busts his ass so that I can SAH and we can spend our money (relatively) freely. However, very little of what we have are "necessities." In order to get by we wouldn't need much. We might have to sell our home, cars, and cut out eating out, cable, iPhones, vacations, and shopping, but I consider "getting by" putting food in my son's mouth and keeping a roof over his head. Everything else is a luxury, not a necessity, in my opinion.

I calculated two different scenarios. This first is true survival. We would sell our house, move into an apartment, sell my car for something cheaper to eliminate that payment, and just pay for bills, food, and gas. Where I live I could live off $25k a year doing that.

The second scenario has us cutting back on smart phones, internet, vacations, infertility treatments, date nights, dining out, making minimum payments on our mortgage, but still putting money into our 401(k) and Roth IRAs. I think we could do that on $60-70k.

When DH and I got married, our joint income was about 30-35k. we were definitely "just getting by". We had no extras, and couldn't save. I couldn't have a child on that income. He got his first "real" job and bumped it up a little bit and that's what we live on now, less than the median income for the US and it's hard with a kid and some debt. But I agree it's a hard question to answer! I mean, if DH lost his job? We'd be forced to find ways to "get by".

@Leialou: That's a great strategy, I'm going to do that and come back

*ETA
If we sold our vehicles and bought older cheaper ones, and cut out our savings/contributions we'd be looking at needing $50,000. We can't downgrade my husband's smart phone as he's required to have one for his job, mine could get cut out. We already don't have cable, we don't eat out (well I don't, my Husband receives a per diem for eating out and hotels), we don't go on vacations, we don't buy many new clothes either.

@MediaNaranja: don't feel bad, while my income might be higher, but i live in an expensive state so it's probably a similar situation. right now i'm getting by on my part time salary alone.

bare minimum for just me:
$150 car ins (could probably get less coverage once it's paid off next month, but right now this is the required coverage), i have to have a car to work
$300 health ins (it's the law where i live, you have to be insured, i think i could get one of the low cost, individual plans for this)
$1000 this would be an inexpensive apt in a less than great area
$65 electricity if i don't use AC
$100 gas for heat if averaged over the year for a small apt
$50 cell phone (i think that's how much an inexpensive phone plan is), have to have a phone to work
$350 gas, food, co-pays, car registration/inspection/excise, clothes, household items- pretty much everything else

so that assumes i don't have a car payment, no debt to pay, save nothing, my car never needs repairs, no illness or injury in need of treatment, don't go out or give bought gifts or have internet at home, i think that's a pretty bare bones life i have added up there, just under $24,000 take home pay is needed.

now the issue is that things always happen- you get a flat tire but don't have money to replace it, then you can't get to work so you lose your job, then you can't pay any of your bills, your phone gets shut off, so how do you get a new job if you can't have anyone call you about a position you apply for? your tire is still flat but you're living in the car because it's paid off & you got evicted from the apt you were renting. the scary thing is that this is often reality! something a simple as a flat tire can so easily derail someone on the edge like that & if those around you are right on the edge too, they can't offer a hand because that would take them out as well. i guess my take home absolute minimum that wouldn't put me at risk for homelessness would be $30,000 as a single person. at that income i'd probably have to have roommates though so i could at least have something put aside to buy a new car when this one dies or have some entertainment $$.