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@mediagirl: Our posts crossed and I just saw your comment.

A lot of countries in Asia put a lot of pressure on kids and have high suicide rates. I don't think that's tied to instructional models. There'd be plenty of suicides no matter what: the core issue is the intense pressure, in my opinion.

Anyway, I believe in whatever works for your child! As for my kids, I think one would thrive with DI and the other might struggle. I think parents are ideally suited to make that call!

@mediagirl: it's hard to describe the system in East Asian schools! The long hours and pressure are just brutal. School is longer and after it gets out, tons of kids go to a second school (in Japan, it's called juku or "cram school"). Hard to describe but it breaks a lot of kids! Almost no schools in America go to that extreme!!

Anyway i think this was a misunderstanding! Totally understand that it's a sensitive topic. Like I said, I think that memorization gets a bad rap in the States! I view it as an important part of an overall education.

@mediagirl: You took my words out of context. You asked an opinion of what I think of DI and no where did I say that it means your kid would end up with plastic surgery or committing suicide. Which also in my original comment, I noted that I was looping together very general topics/stats together. My only experience with it is the school system in Korea and its extreme use of DI and long school hours etc. No way was it intended to say that that would be your or your child's experience with it. Obviously you know what is best and as with all parenting questions or decisions, I am wholeheartedly of the camp that you as a parent should trust your own instinct and follow that in your parenting decisions since that is what works best (in my opinion) for each household.

@mediagirl: To answer your question about why schools are using this method, I honestly believe it is because that kids in this environment tend to "test" well. So on the surface, it makes them look good. It makes the kids look like they are learning a lot, even though I personally don't put much value on what exactly they are learning. It is easier on teachers, because teachers don't have to get to know their students and plan appropriate instruction...all they have to do is follow a script. And to be a bit cynical, I believe a big reason is that these charter schools that are using it are run by businessmen and politicians (who know nothing at all about how to educate children) who look at high test scores and think WAHOO, money in my pocket!

The corporate takeover of education is a very scary thing (especially here in NC, in case you aren't aware) and families are being fooled into believing that our public schools are "failing" when in fact they aren't. But unfortunately people who don't really understand how kids learn believe the media sound bites, repeat them, and suddenly there is uproar when really it isn't necessary. The drama surrounding Common Core is just one example of this.

Bottom line.. I don't believe public schools are failing. I believe that if you allow teachers to do what they know works...to get to know students, to design instruction, to allow students to build understanding naturally, that all kids can and will be successful. I wish the politicians would get out of teachers way, stop legislating our classrooms, and let teachers do their jobs.

@jetsa: It isn't very black and white. All schools use it to some degree, and this is why this thread is so frustrating.

@.twist.: how about how I was taught it was very black and white and that has been my main exposure to it.

@mediagirl: I don't think this has anything to do with children being coddled. The students in my class had far more independence and responsibility for their own learning than kids would in a DI model.

I think the reason it no longer works is because the world has changed. We are constantly surrounded by changing technology, by an overwhelming amount of information to sift through. Kids used to be able to have a question, open an encyclopedia, trust the information as truth, and go about their business. Kids don't learn that way anymore. They have to sift through the internet, determining what makes sense...what is true, what is not. They have to be able to think. By giving them the information (filling their bucket for them) we steal the opportunity for them to develop the critical thinking skills that they will need to be successful in filtering information for themselves. I think this skill is the most important thing kids learn in school, and I feel like it would be seriously lacking with a DI model. Instead of filling their bucket for them, I guide them toward figuring out how to fill their bucket themselves. It isn't about learning style. It is about teaching kids to be lifelong learners and thinkers, and I honestly believe that if kids grow up in a strictly direct instruction scripted environment they will not develop the skills they need to be successful in the long run.

I think the reason that this is such a one sided conversation is because those of us who have learned about how kids learn, who have experienced life in a classroom, tend to lean one direction. I think that says a lot honestly....

@Mrs. Lion: Isn't there a whole life outside of school where children can learn to work together? Extra curricular? Home life, etc? I'm not even sure the school we're looking at is so strict and hardcore that they don't allowed the children to think critically or look at one another. It's the basis of their school structure. They're more strict than the public system.

We're in Canada, so our systems are probably different. I have two older kids in a public school right now. Personally, I don't go to the PTA meetings, but my husband does and he reports back. A LOT of the reason the school doesn't work is because of the demographic of kids there. It's just not a good neighbourhood and a lot of the parents aren't really focusing on education. I get that. I get that you need parents on board to help teachers succeed. Unfortunately, both of our kids are behind and it's not for a lack of our trying. So my personal experience, with children in 2nd and 5th grade, is tainted for the public system. Part of the reason they are not succeeding (in my second hand opinion) is that they have zero control over the children. There is NO structure. There are NO consequences. Our child in 5th grade has skipped class and nothing happened....

My husband and I are at a disadvantage because we do not have full custody of the kids and their mother is the primary disciplinary. Both of our kids need structure and they aren't getting it.

@mediagirl: Class was a lecture and then at the very end a handout to 'put these facts in action' but physics is all about how forces move and what happens when say 2 balls hit each other so a lecture was useless, a demonstration would have been so much more helpful.
When we asked questions on the handout we were told to think of the formulas we memorized and then see what variables we had. So say a problem gave you speed and time, what formula had we memorized that involves speed and time that is how you solve the problem. Its great for standarized testing because they are going to give you everything you need, in the real world you need to figure out how to get speed from other factors this is why it was so bad for me. When I started physics in college I was expected to know how to get to speed without being told point blank it was 55mph but I didn't know. I had to go back to my basics and reteach myself everything I learned in that class, like I said it is still my instinct to see ok this problem gives x, y, and z so I know a formula that uses that, it must be what they are asking for and the real world doesn't work that way.

I have been following this thread with interest!

@Mrs. Lion: You said the below...

"Bottom line.. I don't believe public schools are failing. I believe that if you allow teachers to do what they know works...to get to know students, to design instruction, to allow students to build understanding naturally, that all kids can and will be successful. I wish the politicians would get out of teachers way, stop legislating our classrooms, and let teachers do their jobs."

I wish this were the case. It's just not - at least not universally, and not in the schools where the kids are at the greatest risk. My husband has personally worked in public schools where the teachers are overwhelmed, or underprepared, or frustrated, or burned out, or any number of things... and they are NOT designing great instruction. They are handing out packets and showing videos.

I get what you are saying about the politicians, but if they truly "got out of the way," I think that would essentially mean giving up on low-income kids.

I'm not saying I am a huge fan of DI, and you seem to know a lot more about it than I do! But I know that in many of our public schools today, it would be a vast improvement over what the kids are getting. And like our friend told us, if teachers are overworked and DI allows them to focus on building relationships with their kids and developing additional ways to engage them and differentiate, because they don't have to stay up all night lesson planning, then I can definitely see the benefit.

@Mrs. Lion: What you said about employers looking for problem solving skills, etc- My husband works for a company that does tax software. Their interviews involve virtual nothing about about programming. They have people take a test with just various problems to solve, and ask three questions that require very out of the box thinking to answer correctly. They say they can teach people how to do the programming, but they can't teach the critical thinking skills. They hire, in addition to the computer majors that you'd expect, English majors, former nurses, anyone who meets their needs in terms of skills, not just knowledge of computer software.

@daniellemybelle: Well said. @Mrs. Lion: I agree that unfortunately, its not always the case that there is great instruction going on with teachers that get to know the students (plus thats hard when some teachers have over 200 students!). Also, until we pay teachers better, its hard to recruit and retain great teachers!

Here is the next big kicker that REALLY worries me. We are all discussing PreK-12 Education. But how has higher education been reformed to meet the needs of todays job market. How do they develop critical thinkers prepared for the workforce when majority are still based on a DI approach.

@Mrs. Lion: just wanted to say how much I love flipped classroom. I would have loved that in education. My state is working out some kinks, like making sure all kids have access to computers and time to engage at home, but I think it could be a valuable option and I know DH and I learn well that way.

@daniellemybelle: This makes me so sad

Admittedly I have not been in a tremendous number of schools, although within our state I have seen lots, as a substitute and as a full time teacher. I don't doubt that some schools/classrooms like that exist, and it breaks my heart. From a societal view, I really wish we would do something about it. I am curious about your thoughts on how you think getting politicians out of classrooms would hurt the most disadvantaged kids. My experience with that demographic here tells me that those kids would be better off with teachers who had more time to teach kids and spend less time on testing/teaching to a test. But I think that is a conversation for another place....feel free to wall me if you want to chat! I am genuinely interested.

I can also understand how if the choices are between a class where the teacher does nothing but busy work and videos, compared to a DI classroom, the DI classroom may have an advantage. But in my discussion I am comparing DI to best practices, not worst.

@T.H.O.U.: The higher education problem worries me as well...although, I think if you give kids a solid foundation of critical thinking skills and the ability to be a continuous learner, I think by the time they get to college they will be more prepared for a lecture style environment. By that point, ideally, they would have already mastered those skills and know how to take information in and apply it. Not that higher ed shouldn't be moving in the same direction, but it may be a bottom up issue to deal with. But I do think a lecture type style is much more developmentally appropriate at the late high school/college level than it is in elementary and middle school.

@Mrs. Lion: Also, good points about higher ed being more appropriate age for DI.

@Mrs. Lion: Agree, I don't like labeling schools (or students) as "failing" but if you don't acknowledge the problem, there will certainly never be change and improvement.

@mediagirl: I'm surprised with the "takeaways" you listed in your first reply. Perhaps you were being sarcastic? I felt like a lot of professional educators gave their thoughts, which is what you asked for, and provided good information for you to consider while you decide on a school for your child. It's a bit discouraging to contribute to an open-ended post like this and then have the person asking for opinions be disparaging. DI could end up being a fit for your family (especially with the beliefs you stated in the second paragraph). I hope you're able to come to a decision that leaves you all happy.

@looch: your concern is so valid! It's unlikely to find the perfect match for a child throughout all 13 years of schooling and it's heartbreaking for me to know my kid is going to have rough years in his learning. If parents are paying attention and involved, I think it's easier to intervene before its "too late".

@Mrs. Lion: I am picking up what you're putting down with all these issues, lady. The American schooling system is so complex; I love talking about it.

@JoyfulKiwi: Well, to be fair, it is discouraging when your opinions are prefaced with remarks making it sound like people would be screwing up their children for life by having them put in a school that uses a DI method (even if not extreme). My take away from all the teachers in this thread was "what did I miss? are they torturing kids in a DI system? what makes this so intensely horrible that people wouldn't ever dream of putting their child in a DI system"...

I guess, from everything I've been reading (and since this thread I've been doing a lot of reading), it sounds like DI is a common practice, to some degree, in.... every school system. So, I just feel like I'm missing something major for it to be so terrible.