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I don't understand. I thought Palin was bad but jeesh, he didn't speak in complete sentences, had no logical train of thought - I mean he'd circle around a topic, and only seemed to have random stories. That was bizarre to watch.
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@lawbee11: I wish that was how my FB feed reacted last night. I just had to ignore FB for awhile because during the debate, I scrolled for 2 minutes and literally counted 11 women (all 24-30ish years old) who were posting pro-Trump statements. š
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I missed the debate last night because Queen Bey was performing before my very eyes! Now, I am soaking up all that went down. Sounds like it was pretty epic. Pretty please on-the-fence-Trump-supporters vote for Hillary!
Ha! @lawbee11: the HuffPo piece you posted. ATL rapper Future, he yells one liners like Guap! Trump yells Wrong! He's a showman, but where is the substance?
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@Maysprout: I said basically the same last night to my husband re: Palin. So much incoherence. So many weird streams of consciousness, colliding.
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Eh... I tuned in here & there, saw that nothing was progressing and just gave up.
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@lilteacherbee: I'm really curious to know what their reasons are - is it because they hate Hillary?
DH and i were just groaning throughout the whole debate. It's a sad day for the world if Trump wins.
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@Freckles: A lot of them hate Hillary because "she lies." A couple of them posted that even though they don't agree with everything Trump says, he'll have Christian advisors. I live in a super conservative, small, southern area, so I think they just want a republican and somehow ignore and even agree with some of the hateful things he says.
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@ShootingStar: LOL! He was just making up words left and right!
@lawbee11: Great articles!
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I mean, did he ACTUALLY admit that he hasn't paid federal taxes in the past however long because he's "smart?" And then said that hoping the housing market collapsed was "called business." He's such a petulant child, I just can't stand it. He said absolutely NOTHING of substance. He just argued and whined and talked about how great he is and how great his investments have been and how many countries he has his tremendous buildings in.
ETA: If anyone reads this and STILL thinks Trump is better for our country than Hillary, then I just... I can't. It's nothing but grand-standing, inaccurate "facts," and bold-face lies. http://www.npr.org/2016/09/26/495115346/fact-check-first-presidential-debate
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@littlebug: Honestly, I think many of Trump supporters are just willing to bury their heads in the sand and ignore the facts, or believe that the the media and/or other organizations are bought by Hillary and that the "facts" that are shown by NPR and others aren't real or valid.
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I think it would be a grave mistake if he were elected. I'm sad today for my fellow Americans that are completely hoodwinked by Donald "Bigly" Trump and obviously did not benefit from as much of an education as some of us. I think we need to address the situation that gave rise to Trump. Not sure how we can move forward.
Plus the very fact that she is a woman works against her in our sexist society. In small, sneaky ways, a double standard is always at play. She did a wonderful job last night, knowing she could not afford to lose her cool.
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I didn't watch the debates since it was the middle of the night for me, but I've been catching up throughout the day today. My question that I haven't really seen answered anywhere, did we learn anything new? Specifically, did we learn anything new about any policies that haven't been spoken about at great length yet? I have the impression that they were mostly sparring about everything we've been talking about for the last year and very little substance.
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@Adira: I actually had this explained to me in a way that at least made logical sense (even though its still awful). A person described to me that they can see that Trump is racist and bigoted, and his presidency would likely have a negative impact on large groups of people. However, this person is not in that group of people. They see Clinton's policies negatively impacting themselves personally and Trump's benefiting themselves personally so that is how they justify it.... Like I said, sad reasoning, but at least its an explanation...
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I'm curious if watching the debates swayed anybody one way or the other? I haven't seen any polls or anything on that, but I would love to know. I feel like it's such a polarizing year that most people have already made up theirs minds.
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@tlcbaby: I'm kind of hoping that trump will continue to be this unhinged and the people I know who are considering a third party vote will come around to Clinton. Maybe? I'm so scared of a trump presidency.
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@tlcbaby: I agree with @Silva. I'm hopeful that some third-party voters will be scared enough of Trump to hold their nose and vote for Clinton. If people are still supporting Trump at this point given all that he's said, I think there is little to no hope of them jumping ship.
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@JennyPenny: I do think that you're right and that's how a lot of people view the situation. Even though Trump would be bad for a large segment of our population (and probably the world), he might be good for me personally, so I'm going to vote for him. This mindset is the same kind of mindset that allows for racism, sexism, and other prejudices.
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@lamariniere: good question! I don't think there was much new, just the first time they were sparring live and directly to each other in person. In general it wasn't very heavy on actual policy--Clinton was more specific in her answers, but Trump was pretty much incoherent, like when he completely fumbled a question about nuclear strategy towards the end, it was pretty clear he didn't understand the question. He would ramble and mention like 5 separate issues in his answers, and then she would respond with detailed critiques to like 1 or 2 of the random things he'd brought up. Also, the questions were more geared towards controversies that are already being discussed in the media rather than topics that haven't been brought up.
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@Silva: @lawbee11: I guess I should have mentioned I am one of the third party voters...so far, I'm not swayed. I was mostly wondering if any Trump supporters would be swayed toward Clinton given his "performance" last night. You are right, if they haven't jumped ship yet, I don't know what would send them over the edge.
If it makes you feel better, I signed up on balancedrebellion.com to be matched up with a "Never Hillary" so our votes cancel each other out instead of being considered a vote for the other major party candidate.
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@JennyPenny: I definitely agree with this. But unfortunately, I still think a lot of them are wrong! Many of the Trump supporters I've seen tend to support him because of his racist, xenophobic ideas. Those same people tend to be of lower socioeconomic status, who are the ones who would suffer the most from his economic "policies." But they don't see that. They just see a wall at Mexico and deporting all the Muslims. It's super sad.
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@lamariniere: I was most surprised by how ill prepared and incoherent Trump's answers were. To me he was 10x worse than Palin and I thought she was a dud. But his answers were just silly, non-specific, and horribly rambly nonsense. He is always a buffoon but I thought there was perhaps some strategy to his buffoonery, he seems to somewhat think on his feet. But last night whoa, I was just flabbergasted with his inability to speak coherently even when trying, he really sounded like he had no clue about the world or two marbles to rub together to figure it out.
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@lamariniere: @nana87: I don't know if this is new or not, but I didn't realize that the reason we pulled out troops from Iraq when we did was because of negotiations put in place by George W. Bush. I thought that was a good point that it wasn't Obama's fault that we pulled all the troops we did at the time we did.
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@Maysprout: the little bit of video I've seen has been appalling (I'm mostly reading about it). I actually thought he would put in some effort and try to sound coherent, but I guess the Donald is above studying since "Iām speaking with myself, number one, because I have a very good brain.ā
@Adira: interesting. I haven't seen that mentioned in the highlights. I should probably either just watch the whole thing or read a transcript.
But nothing they say will change my mind. I mailed off my absentee ballot this morning.
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@Maysprout: @lamariniere: I mean... the first 30 minutes, Trump sounded like he was trying to stick to his message of career politicians aren't getting the job done, etc. But then he just let Hillary bait him and he got more and more incoherent and offensive.
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@Adira: It wasn't Obama's fault. It was ALLLLLL Hillary's fault. All of it. Everything that's wrong in the world is Hillary's fault.
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@littlebug: To quote Trump: "Why not?"
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@lamariniere: Here is the transcript with fact checker.
http://www.npr.org/2016/09/26/495115346/fact-check-first-presidential-debate
I missed the debate but I read the transcript. I did catch a few clips here and there.
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I find it interesting that so many of you here are experiencing Trump "supporters" who support him for what you call his "racist, xenophobic ideas"...
I am team "never her"...I do not call myself a Trump Supporter - though often people like to attack me as though I am a Trump Supporter simply because I choose to vote for him - but because of my personal opinions obviously find myself in circles that contain other who will vote for him. I have never once met someone who likes him or is choosing to vote for him because they want racist or xenophobic policies implemented...
Its a shame more of you have not had more encounters with rational people who will be voting for him. (notice I specifically do not say "support him" here...)
I did not find the debate to be a win for either. I feel Trump excelled in the beginning. It was 50/50 in the middle-ish. And Clinton did better in the end. I would have liked to see Trump compose himself better - though I think considering the different preparation approaches - I would have expected her to far outperform him which I did not personally think she did.
I found her discussion of the 2008 economic crisis and cyber security particularly entertaining....
Just the two cents from the other side of the table ... which is largely under-represented here on HB.
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@bluestriped bee: cool, thanks!
This made me laugh:
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@Mrs D: Actually, the majority of the people I know who are voting for him are, generally, rational people who don't support his sexist or racist remarks. They don't LOVE Trump, but they think he'll be good for the economy and they are very against Hillary.
Unfortunately, despite how much I respect these people and how intelligent I know these people are, I just CAN'T understand why they would vote for someone like Trump. Even if you despite Hillary and can't bring yourself to vote for her, how can you vote for Trump? How can any intelligent person look at Trump and all the things he has said and done and think that he is actually qualified to be our President? The overwhelming feeling I get from people who are going to vote for him seems to be that he just won't be that bad and that he probably won't totally F--- it up. And how anyone who's supposedly intelligent can think that is just beyond my comprehension!
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@Adira: I was referencing some of the other comments here...where they said many people they know are supportive of those types of policies - which to be clear I dont think is a fair assessment of his policies but I can understand that some do.
That said...I find this whole election so intriguing because as I have discussed with several of my friends who fall on the other side of the spectrum....everything you just said about how you cant understand people who could vote for him is precisely how I feel about people who can support her. I am literally baffled that (as you said) otherwise intelligent people can look at her record, history, investigations into corruption, testimony, etc and feel comfortable voting for her. Such an interesting dynamic in our country - that people can perceive two individuals so drastically different.
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DH and i are huge politics junkies so we watched it (and anticipated it all day!) A few things I took from it and the following discussions:
1) They are both being criticized pretty evenly for not offering specifics. I thought at least Hillary tried to answer the question but each time she could speak, she was trying to answer the question, respond to Donald's accusations that were largely offtopic and irrelevant, AND stay cool as he constantly interrupted her. I think she mainly didn't have much opportunity to provide specifics because he was bringing up every catch phrase/accusation he could think of...whether they were relevant or not
@Adira: I actually don't think she baited him. People keep saying she baited him. He just showed his true colors. I think he just couldn't handle how poised and confident she was and how he couldn't rattle her...which in turn rattled him. Most of her "zingers" were merely responses to something he charged first.
2) Speaking of irrelevant, is no one as horrified as I was about the Rosie O'Donnell comment that she deserved his criticism of her weight? At the time and currently, I have no other response than "he's a...beeping d...k".
3) Lastly, I stay pretty up to date on these issues...and I could not follow his train of thought/word salad. His brain was clearly moving way faster than his mouth, but I was shocked and in awe of his failure to communicate. Especially in the last half hour. He was a raving mess. And then I see feedback that people think he won...um, how?? -
@Mrs D: you should check out John Oliver's "Scandals" piece on the two of them. He looks into them briefly...and in my opinion, the two aren't even close to comparable.
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@Tidybee: I've seen this - I dont find it to add much value to actual research and reading of the facts. Scandals aside - I could never vote for Clinton and her policies...too many of them go against what I personally believe in and choose to support...so while I say I personally dont understand how people can know the facts about her and still vote for her (policies and opinions aside)...for me it actually comes down to policies. I think even if I did align with her views I would still struggle to vote for such a person...
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@Mrs D: hmmm, this is a tough one. I'm going to be brutally honest and speak from my personal experience. In my mind I divide the Trump supporters I know (members of my family included) into 2 categories: the first category is white middle/lower middle class men who believe that our government has invested far too much time/money/ whatever else into minorities and/or folks on the lower end of the economic scale (read: minorities) and is thrilled that someone is talking about bringing things back to the "way they used be." Though they may not be voting for Trump bc of his racist, sexist, xenophobic views, they are not concerned with it and maybe, secretly, are ok with it because they were perfectly happy when all you needed to have a great shot at a good life was to be male and white. This is my dad. And all my dad's friends. The second category are friends and colleagues who are educated, affluent, die hard republicans. They believe so deeply in the traditional republican platform (ie small gov't, fiscal conservatism NOT alt right extremism) that they cannot even fathom voting for a Clinton, or any liberal. It is the people in this category that frustrate me the most. Because they are rationale and thoughtful and compassionate. And because they are all of those, I cannot wrap my head around how they would disregard the racist, sexist and xenophobic tendencies of Trump just to put a republican in office. I am a bleeding heart liberal, a democrat to my core, and I would vote for republican president without thinking twice if the democratic candidate spouted off half the hateful OR nonsensical noise that comes out of Trump's mouth.
Note: I am not saying all Trunp supporters fall into those 2 categories, just the ones I know.
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@Madison43: I fall more into your second category. My personal opinion is that I do not agree with some of the off the cuff comments he makes but I also feel firmly that much of why he seems so extreme is because we compare him to scripted/robotic politicians who dont know how to speak their mind because all they know how to do is say what you want to hear and not what they actually believe. So - I at least take comfort in hearing his actual thoughts....not what some staffer has told him he should say he thinks...or what polls best...or whatever. I at least feel like I know where he stands...
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@Mrs D: "such a person". I've had so many people say they could never vote for "such a person"...and yet, trump just "tells it like it is" or "calls it how he sees it" when he calls Mexicans rapists, takes advantage of people for his own economic gain, mocks a disabled reporter (and the list goes on and on). I guess I just don't get the double standard...I loved Erick erickksons piece on how he still can not support trump as a Christian. At least he's staying true to his values.
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@Mrs D: I don't think we compare him to scripted politicians. I think I at least expect that someone who is going to lead our country to have an ounce of class.
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