Hellobee Boards

@mrbee: I guess...? I'm still confused lol

My basic question is : If gender is socially constructed, does that mean no one is born a specific gender? Is it completely our environment that sets the gender we identify as, or is it also based on our hormones, chromosomes, ect? If gender identity is also formed by chemicals we're born with, doesn't that mean is not completely a social construct?

@pui. - gender is social/sex is biological is kind of the 101 level of explanation. Brain imaging and autopsy studies seem to indicate that there is a physiological component to gender as well. This doesn't indicate correlation vs causation, just that there is some physiologic relationship.

The role that gender identity plays and how important/salient it is is also culturally dependent. If you live in a society with gender parity and without strong gendered social role, gender may be less important than in a culture where masculine and feminine a posed as diametrically opposed competitors with very different acceptable roles.

Very interesting thread to read! I know the difference and don't correct people even though I correct them in my head. I pick my battles.

I also don't have a problem saying, "my baby's sex is ____" totally doesn't bother me.

I understand the difference but I think a lot of times it's offensive. Like in the link digapony provided it says - "I identify as a man, but I identify with a lot of what it means to be a woman. I’m sensitive, kind, familial". I'm sorry but what? Those things just aren't gender specific.

It drives me bonkers on HB when I see women talking about their little girls as if they're tomboys because they like to play outside and run around. Again not gender specific things but I think the popularity of separating out sex and gender leads to these types of conversations.

I can understand discussing typical gender roles and gender identity vs what sex is in someone's pants - but just as being gay has a biological basis so does sexual/gender identity and by separating out sex as biological and gender as societal I think it diminishes the transgender experience, because there is a biological basis to it.

@Maysprout: you bring up good points about sorting and classifying traditional roles. Your points in fact, make me examine what I do and say... Because I do think of my older daughter as a tomboy in a dress. But maybe I'm relying to much on the mid-twentieth century construct of gender roles. I don't know that we are genuinely past those, but maybe I'm not helpin the situation by thinking in those terms. It's an easy trap to fall into, though, considering I was deemed a serious tomboy and so I see my daughter through that lens.

I will admit that it is so fun to see her get incredibly excited over helicopters, cars and fire trucks which were all things that I would have liked to but was disallowed from playing with. Maybe those limitations were part of what shunted me to he sciences, since chemistry and biology were socially acceptable for me.

I do know the difference although I don't use either term much. It doesn't offend me when people use the "wrong" word.

OK, so this is probably another can of worms but I was mulling it over and - is it more offensive/annoying/wrong to say the wrong word than it is to give our children traditionally male or female names, or dress them in traditionally male or female clothing? I mean, what's the difference?

@Mrs. Jacks: I was seen as a tomboy too, which for the most part my parents celebrated. But since what I enjoyed doing and was good at was deemed 'boyish' by lots of people I got the message that boys were smart and awesome and most girls were fairly boring and kinda dumb. It also made me embarrassed and try to hide the parts of my personality that people seemed to deem as 'feminine'. So for me being called a tomboy was a negative experience.

@DigAPony: Kind of but if he has said 1950s gender stereotypes I'd be more likely to agree. By incorporating stereotypes into the definition of gender it perpetuates the problem instead of allowing the problem to be named appropriately.

Thank you for the open and honest discussion. It's refreshing to see adults having a calm and rational conversation about a topic that can be sensitive. In my family, we are two women raising a boy, and while he loves cars and trucks and getting muddy, he also loves baking and flowers and books. I try to let him explore whatever he wants. I imagine he will be confronted with stereotypes in school, but for now, things are not gendered in our house nor related to one's sex but rather each person is free to develop his or her own interests without limitations or judgement.

@pui: I've honestly heard people (with masters degrees) argue both sides- that it has a partly biological basis, and that it doesn't/totally socially constructed.

I agree with Mr Bee that sometimes using the term sex is uncomfortable. Like what would you call a "baby sex reveal party"? Instead of a gender reveal party.