-
@agold: Umm... their child was hurt and could have been killed...?
-
@bluestriped bee: I think she made that statement yesterday. Was there any indication that she needs a lawyer as of yesterday?
@Adira: The child wasn't killed. And he was released from the hospital the same day, right? So not too seriously injured. Insurance would have covered the hospital bill. Just so weird to me to even insinuate an expectation for monetary donations for an occurrence such as this.
-
@agold: I don't think suggesting people donate to the zoo in lieu of donating to her insinuates anything. Perhaps people had been asking her where they could donate so that's why she made a public statement.
-
@Adira: Interesting. I just found it odd that she made a public statement. even if a few people had offered her a monetary donation, she could have responded privately to them. But I suppose what I find odd is why anyone would even think to donate money to her.
-
@agold: I mean, I'm not planning on donating to her, but her son went through something incredibly traumatic. Even if he's physically fine, he might not be emotionally or mentally. I can't even IMAGINE how terrifying that would be for me, as an ADULT, to be in the situation that he was in. And then consider the fact he's only 3 or 4?? The kid may need some serious counseling or something and I could see Insurance (assuming they even have it) not paying for all of that.
People donate money all the time to people that other's might not think need it. I guess I don't see how this is any different or why it's "odd" people might want to donate to this family.
-
@agold: She is being torn apart online. Not sure if this donation comment was made to a friend or family and it got released to the media. All I'm thinking is we need someone like Olivia Pope from Scandal to control this situation.
I don't think she has the ability to hide in her home like some celebrities do when shit goes down. She's human like any of us with social media accounts.
-
@Adira: you are so right that people donate all the time to people that other's might not think need it. Society is just like that now, I suppose. Thanks for clarifying why you think she might need the donations. I just couldn't fathom what she'd need the money for!
-
@ShootingStar: I understand what your saying about not wanting to miss a possible neglect case, however, where do you draw the line then? A child runs into the street, parents should be investigated? A child hides in a department store and can't be found, investigate the parents? A baby rolls off the changing table, investigate the parents? All of these could be considered neglect?
-
@bluestriped bee: Ha! True! Where is Olivia Pope when we need her???
-
@bluestriped bee: @agold: YES!! OPA needs to get on this case!!
-
@T.H.O.U.: sadly those are the type of stories you keep hearing about. Children are playing in the front yard and parents are investigated. Mom leaves 4-year-old in car to run inside she gets investigated. Kids walk home from the park are investigated.
Granted I don't think those cases warranted investigation, especially when kids were temporarily removed. But if those decisions were important enough to be looked into you'd imagine this would be too.
-
@Miss Ariel: Yes, its the hard decisions I'm sure of case workers and social workers to decide. I just hate that they are probably being pressured to investigate because of the media versus because of due cause.
-
@T.H.O.U.: true, although I'd imagine that's normally the case with big media stories
-
This is a sad situation all around. In my opinion, it's easy to judge when you're on the outside looking in, but unless someone else is in that exact same situation they will really never know.
I watched a child and its dog get hit by a car, a car that kept on going. It all happened in slow motion. I stopped to help the very obviously frazzled and in shock parent with their child and dog. Only one other person stopped and it wasn't the driver of the car that was involved with the impact. Was it the parent's fault for the child running in the street after the dog? Was it the driver's fault for being in the wrong place at the wrong time? Was it the child's fault for not letting go of the leash so they wouldn't lose their dog? Everyone had their faults in the situation. Maybe the parent should have been walking the dog instead of the kid and the driver should have stopped to see if they were okay. At the end of the day, accidents do truly happen and it isn't necessarily always because someone is a bad person. Sometimes bad things just happen and despite doing the best we can, we can't stop it.
My point is, this mom was probably doing the best she could, as was the zoo. Like I said, an all around sad situation.
-
@Boogs: yes! ^^^^^^^^^^this!!
-
I think both sides are being investigated to appease all involved. This way they can look like they're not biased and are doing a thorough job.
Why is this such a hot topic? It's blowing up my FB feed. Open letters, blog posts, etc. Why has this hit such a nerve?
-
@Happygal: ha, I agree. Why are people still talking about this? Yes, it's sad the Gorilla died, but hello... It was to save a HUMAN. How he got into the exhibit is really besides the point. It happened and it's unfortunate, but unfortunate things happen all of the time. I haven't really followed the story because I find it annoying, but I am glad the little boy is okay and unless this mom physically threw her child into the pit, then leave her alone, Internet! The amount of analyzing and media coverage this is getting is disgusting! Gah.
-
@Happygal: @ocean81: I feel like it's getting more coverage than the shooting at UCLA!
-
I mean, I kinda do think that looking away from one of your kids for a minute is a long time. Especially since everyone's argument in defense of the mom is that kids/toddlers can slip away in the blink of an eye and so on. I cannot imagine turning my back to my (almost) 21 month old for a full minute in a public place, especially if he's not restrained in a stroller. Even 30 seconds is too long! Up to a minute is really poor judgement, and THAT would be why I would investigate her, not because the gorilla was killed. 3-4 year olds have very little concept of what is safe and what isn't. That's why we're there to protect and guide them. Mistakes DO happen, but just because its a mistake it doesn't mean that no one is at fault.
Granted, I only have one kid. But I also kinda think that as parents we have to know our limits since we are responsible for our kids' well-being. I think that going to a zoo alone with four young kids is kind of impossible for anyone, myself included. Tending to another kid isn't a good excuse (to me) for another kid to be ignored for up to a minute. If you can't keep an eye on all kids in your care at the zoo, don't go to the zoo. If someone here has 4 young kids and is reading this and thinks that they could handle it, please chime in. Maybe I'm wrong.
And yeah, of course I've had scares with my son. I had him at the grocery store a few weeks ago and let him get out of the stroller so I could place some groceries there and he could walk home holding my hand (we live a block away and he loves doing this). By the time I placed my groceries in the stroller he was walking towards the grocery store exit and the door opened. I noticed and yelled for him and it got the attention of everyone in line because of course I was a bit loud. And yeah, I got a snide comment from an old lady saying "well why isn't he in the stroller, that's what its there for". And you know what? She was right. I made a decision to let him out of the stroller and it was probably a poor decision. And had he gone out the door and into the street and gotten hurt, it would have been MY fault. Who else's would it have been? Not my kid's fault, he's not old enough to know better.
But my scenario was 5 seconds, from the time I turned toward the register, picked up a bag, and back to my stroller. not a full minute. Could you imagine if I just didn't pay attention to him for a full minute? I just can't fathom that. A minute is an eternity when dealing with a toddler. A full minute?!? Even 30 seconds...I don't know.I try not to be too judgey and I can sympathize with the whole "toddlers are slippery little suckers" sentiment. But he didn't break from her grip and she didn't turn around for 5 or even 10 seconds. She basically ignored him for a minute in a public and potentially dangerous place. Seriously, set your phone timers for a full minute and imagine going the zoo and turning your back on your unrestrained toddler until that timer goes off. My heart started thumping at the 10 second mark!
-
Here's a different thought that has been bugging me a bit...in a presumably crowded place, why did no one else notice the child getting through the first (rope) barrier and pull him back? I'm sure everyone was distracted, preoccupied with their own families, etc.; I don't mean that the crowd should have been responsible at all. I'm just a little surprised that NO ONE noticed and acted. I guess it must have happened too quickly? I'd like to think that if I saw a child getting him/herself into a dangerous situation, the mama bear in me would react.
-
@PinkElephant: I think we (the royal "we" - society generally) is pretty conditioned to MYOB, especially when it comes to other people's kids, and especially not to touch other people's children. And I would guess that people who might have noticed him climb past the first barrier assumed his parent(s)/guardian(s) would be paying attention and grab him, so they didn't/then couldn't react in time.
-
@PinkElephant: Adria said here that a witness did see the child on the other side of the fence and that the kid was super quick.
ETA: it's not letting me paste the link. Look at Adria's second comment on the last page.
-
@yoursilverlining: I think you're probably right - my guess is my first inclination is always to ask a child getting into trouble "which grown up are you here with?", or tell them "be careful!" Or something like that. Which wouldn't have done much good if it didn't draw the parent's attention to the child quickly enough.
How is it that people were MYOB in this situation, but always seem to have plenty to say when, for example, my kid puts two puffs in her mouth at once or wants to wear her shoes on the wrong feet?
-
@bluestriped bee: Ah! I missed that - honestly I only watched one clip and didn't see the comment here. That explains it; pretty crazy that he defeated a barricade system that had been. Fine for nearly 30 years (but really, if someone was going to manage it, I'm not at all surprised it was a feisty toddler). Thanks.
-
@littlebug: seriously! I saw ONE post about the shooting today and maybe 8-9 on the damn gorilla! Enough already!
-
I have several thoughts about this situation so in no particular order...
- The Mom / parent should take responsibility because at the end of the day, the child was in her care. I don't think she should be subject to a witch hunt or blamed, as such, but she was the adult caring for the child (kind of like if your child broke an expensive glass or ornament in a store!)
- Accidents happen and it's just not physically possible to eliminate every.single.risk out there. That barrier had done its job for over thirty years!
- The zoo needs to be reassessing their safety barriers because this incident could have easily resulted in more than just one fatality.
-
I am glad to read some of the comments here because this is more reasonable and I am more inline with most of your thinking.... that we shouldn't witch hunt the mom. The gorilla was dragging the child like a doll according to what I read (I didn't watch the videos), what do you expect the zoo to do? I mean if it wasn't doing anything to the child and they shot him anyway then that's a different story...
It is just like parents leaving their kids in hot cars in summer and the infant died in the car... somehow we were more forgiving to that scenario (while I was the other way around, I think that's ridiculous), but for this people are mad all around. I have a 4 year old, and yes you do have longer moments that you don't have their eyes glued on them just because they are older, they have better motor skills and you trust they have better understanding of how this world works, and make better judgements in general (well obviously not this child). Someone above says looking away for 30 seconds is way too long - I agree but that's when you have a younger toddler. When they are 4 year olds you just don't glue your eyes on them that much anymore. I don't know. I mean I have to say the mother knows her son though. My son would probably not do such a thing he is always scared and not very adventurous but for this mom maybe she should have been a bit more attentive if she knows her son is known to do really really crazy things. But still. I am leaning more toward that this is a very sad incident.
I am also curious why no bystanders ever attempt to stop the kid. Because obviously I can't believe it is very easy to slide through the bars and some efforts have to be made. No one pull the kid back? That's kinda weird.
Anyhoo.... sorry for rambling.... just I am with some of you I get annoyed with some of the FB things I've read and the witch hunt that's going on. People with no kids are easy to judge.
-
@irene: Actually, one of the bystanders DID try to grab the kid, but he fell into the pit before she could get to him.
http://boards.hellobee.com/topic/gorilla-in-oh-killed/page/3#post-2559990
Definitely agree with you that at 3-4, you really don't have your eyes glued on your kids as much as when they are under 2. Whenever I pick up the kids from daycare, I pick up Xander (3) first and then go get Logan (18m). While I'm getting all of Logan's stuff, my eyes are definitely not on Xander, but I trust him to stay with me. Of course, anything could happen and he could dart away, but you have to start giving them independence at some point.
Maybe this family has been to the zoo a million times before and her son had NEVER done anything like this before. Maybe he generally stuck to her like glue, so she thought he would do the same as he always did and stay by her side while she tended to another child. There's just no way to know what exactly the situation was or why she lost track of him for a few seconds, but there are a number of reasons why it could've happened and had this kid not gotten himself in such trouble, no one would even blink an eye at the fact her eyes weren't glued to him.
-
@irene: @Adira: I guess what I have trouble with is that the same people who are saying "accidents happen, toddlers be toddlers, they can slip away in a second, it could happen to anyone" are the same ones saying that 30 seconds to a minute of not watching them in a crowded zoo is ok. That to me doesn't add up.
If you know that toddlers can get into danger in a matter of seconds, how in the world is it ok to leave them unattended for up to a full minute?I don't know what it's like to care for a 3-4 year old. I get that. But my sister is a mother of 3 kids, two of which are over 4 years old so she's lived that age, twice. And she said she would not have ever turned her back to them at that age for more than 15 seconds. Seriously guys. A MINUTE?! Set your alarm and imagine turning your back on your 3 year olds in a crowded zoo during that time. If you think you'd be comfortable with that, I guess we just need to agree to disagree.
I get that at some point there needs to be independence, but I'm not sure that at 3/4 years old in such a public and potentially dangerous setting is it. Independence to me would be letting them walk a few steps ahead of me, so I could still see them but they aren't tethered to me and can explore a bit. Not turning my back for a minute and expecting them to just stay put.
-
Do we know how long the mother had her attention turned away from the child? Was it 15 seconds/30seconds/60seconds? @SweetiePie: You do have a good point that a full minute is a long time unless part of that time was where the child had slipped away and she was looking for him? But I know at the playground with 2 kids (age 1.5 and 4.5) there are times my older child runs off to play and it easily could be 60 seconds before I can catch up or put eyes on her. Again, a level of trust there that we have had conversations about not leaving the mulch area alone, etc. but something easily could happen in that minute I"m sure. I dont think that is neglectful parenting though.
-
@SweetiePie: "If you know that toddlers can get into danger in a matter of seconds, how in the world is it ok to leave them unattended for up to a full minute?"
To me, not having your eyes glued to them, but thinking they are right with you, is NOT leaving them unattended. It's not like she said "Honey, you stay here by yourself for a minute while I go way over there where I can't see you." I'm assuming he was right next to her and that she ASSUMED he would stay right next to her. I take my eyes off Xander all the time, but I ASSUME he's still with me, because he always is. Obviously if something like this happened to me, I'd be extra vigilant in the future, but I wouldn't assume my preschooler is going to run off just because he CAN. At some point, you have to start trusting your kids to do the right thing. This mom probably trusted her son to stay with her. She was wrong, but I don't fault her for believing the best in him at the time. I'm sure that from now on, he's going to be a tight leash and it will take time for him to earn her trust again. But if your child is generally pretty responsible and trustworthy, it's natural to assume they will continue to be so.
And you'd be amazed at how fast a minute flies by when you're dealing with multiple kids. She had four with her - if the other three needed her attention and her preschooler usually sticks to his mom like glue (like MINE generally does), I can totally see getting caught up in whatever you're doing with the other kids, not checking on your preschooler every 2 seconds in between. I'm guessing she no longer trusts him and this won't happen again. I just can see how it could and I don't fault her for it.
-
@T.H.O.U.: I read somewhere that another witness said the mom was dealing with her other kids and had her eyes off her preschooler for 30 seconds, MAYBE a minute (they weren't definitive with how long the time was, but it was a minute at most).
-
@SweetiePie: I'm with you on this. A minute is way too long. My horrible mind thinks up way too many situations that can happen to a child in that amount of time. What ever happened to leashes? My sister and I weren't darters, but my mom always had us in a stroller or on a leash in crowded places. My niece is 4.5 and we still put her in a stroller in a place like the mall even because we don't want to loose her in a store. And she's a good girl! Is it not the norm to expect to have constant eyes on your child? This is an honest question because I'm just now pregnant with my first so I obviously haven't dealt with this except just watching my niece.
-
@Adira: and I mean, I guess this is where opinions and parenting styles come into play. Everyone is different. But to me, if you can't keep an eye on all 4 kids at the zoo, don't go to the zoo. Maybe that's not a popular opinion, but it's mine. I think 4 kids is a lot for ANY single adult to handle, I'm not just hating on her. Older kids is one thing, but young kids and babies...I dunno.
I also read she was taking pictures, not tending to kids. Granted that's a minor detail, but I think it sorta matters. Maybe that has been refuted though, maybe she was tending to kids. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
@T.H.O.U.: I would be shocked if she was only looking away for a few seconds and her kid was able to scale walls, fences and bushes in that amount of time. I think a minute is a bit more realistic for that to happen. But I guess that's just speculation. But because a witness said up to a minute and that seems more realistic to me, that's what I've been using as my reference point.
And I think that your scenario is different. In an enclosed playground with a 4.5 year old seems very different to me than a 3 year old at a zoo, surrounded by moving adults and strangers and wild animals.
I'm not a crazy helicopter mom, I swear. I let my son play on the age appropriate toys/areas at the park and I sit on a bench and watch. I don't hover, I don't follow. I like to watch him navigate on his own and learn how to maneuver and play with other kids. Might I glance at my phone for a second if the playground is kinda empty and calm? Of course. Maybe next year when he's 3 I'll go a full minute
But that just seems like a totally different scenario than what this mom did.Anyways, I guess my original point is that just because something is an accident doesn't mean that someone isn't at fault or shouldn't be held accountable. I guess that's my biggest issue is the lack of humility or responsibility. If she just said "I bit off more than I could chew, I feel awful that turning my back for a mere 30 seconds to a minute resulted in this, etc etc". There's just been no responsibility on her part.
And, for the record, I'm not a monster - I'm sure she feels so awful and is possibly taking on the responsibility privately and kicking herself for it. I'm sure those 10 minutes where she saw him down there were gutwrenchig. My very very first thought when I heard this was that I felt bad for the mom. As we've learned a few more details I still feel bad, but own up to it lady. I think that if she truly feels like it was an isolated incident and not indicative of their every day life, she should apologize, welcome an investigation and move on. Adults are responsible for kids. If a kid FALLS INTO A GORILLA HABITAT I think it makes sense to check out the adult they were with. He didn't break away from her grip and run into the street. -
This cracked me up!
-
@Autumnmama79:
-
@Autumnmama79: That's like this one I saw.
-
@Adira: @T.H.O.U.: The thing that bothers me all the time is when i hear people say, "it was a split second." People have NO sense of time! When you end up being preoccupied with something, time goes a lot faster than you think. The times that my kids got away from me were the times when i was preoccupied for definitely more than 1 minute.
I think most of us can agree that having CPS investigate, or calling it neglect, or threatening death is effing ridiculous. However, it's annoying when i hear people say that the parents shoulder absolutely no responsibility.
-
@Freckles: Yes! Same thing is the issue with texting and driving. You think its a split second but its not.
-
@PinkElephant: & @irene: Several people in the crowd actually tried to get to the kid. I don't think anybody noticed him until he was in the bushes, then people looked around for his parent, then tried to go after him, but it was too late because he was moving very quickly and trying to get into the habitat (not wandering over and falling).
I don't think she has the ability to hide in her home like some celebrities do when shit goes down. She's human like any of us with social media accounts.
But that just seems like a totally different scenario than what this mom did.
- Google Plus
- Stumbleupon
- Twitter
- Facebook
- Pinterest
- Favorite0
178 comments