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@PrincessBaby: To your original post ... I don't believe in spanking. At all. BUT, I want to say that I just told my husband that sometimes I just want to smack our daughter. It sounds horrible (!!!), but she's a very, VERY spirited child. She doesn't listen, she's curious, she tests every boundary, etc. But, it's my job as her parent to be the fully developed human in the room, and display impulse control. She needs me to be a loving mother, even when she's pushing me towards my worst.
It's so hard. SO HARD sometimes. I know. I feel for you. Don't beat yourself up over it. It sounds like spanking isn't something you want to do. Talk to your partner ... get on the same page ... ask each other to help when the other is frustrated. I know you said it wasn't anger, but it was, I'm sure. I bet you were angered and frustrated that nothing is working. You need to establish tools within yourself to recognize that you're going there, and stop yourself. Even thinking, "Holy shit! This kid is driving me crazy ... I'm going to take a deep breath and reset this whole situation!".
All of that said ... I've found a lot of encouragement from reading what Janet Lansbury writes ... specifically No Bad Kids. I appreciate her perspective, and man, she has a ton of insight on why spanking isn't effective, but also, tools and ideas to use instead. I think you have a new baby too, right? JL talks a lot about how new kiddos in the mix can just ROCK toddlers/children, and gives pretty awesome examples and tools to use.
Additionally, sometimes I realize I'm being a total dick and not listening ... like, she'll scream that she wants to paint, and I just say no. Why?!?! Once I calm down and realize that my kid just wants to sit down and paint, I get the paints, and she's super happy. In regard to the candy ... if your kid isn't allowed to have candy, why it is in the house? ... would giving the candy really make that big of a difference? The same guilt you have over spanking them? ... I think it's just about choosing battles. Again, I feel for you ... you're overwhelmed!
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@PrincessBaby: i already replied, but saw your other comment that you had been spanked as a child. It's great that you and your siblings turned out so well. I was soanked once as a child and so were my siblings and we all turned out fine too. But that's not the point is it? Your original post was asking for insight because when you hit your max and did spank, that felt awful and out of control right? Research has come a long way since the 80s and we were spanked, and many have already linked to articles showing that. That's why I won't spank (even though I turned out fine) and because it undermines trust between parent and child. Right before age 3 is when I started losing control of my own emotions while parenting (when LO 2 was probably 5 months) and that's when I read Janet Lansbury.
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@Jackiedavis87: I was totally with you on the non-judgement train (I don't spank but I did sleep train by extinction method when my baby was 4 months old, which a lot of ladies on here would consider child abuse, but I'm incredibly comfortable with my choice), I think every parent deals with things differently and you have to work out what works for you, and I don't think what @Oxana: described is abuse.
However.....that blog is absolute click bait trash. Have you read any of his other posts? He is racist, mysoginistic and frankly pretty stupid. Sorry you lost me!!
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@Jackiedavis87: Um, is that guys supposed to be some sort of expert?
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@jetsa: we would judge a husband that hit his wife wouldn't we? If your harm someone, anyone - baby, toddler, teen., adult, animal. I'm going to unapologetically judge you. Most of the time I'm very much to each their own, whatever works. The mommy wars and judgement over formula or screen time is one thing. Harming another living thing, especially in a systematic and consistent way is not in that category.
ETA - I totally don't judge someone at the end of their rope who spanks once or twice. We will likely all be there or very close to there at some point. But repeated use, yeah no. It's illegal in 39 countries. The U.S. Isn't necessarily the best barometer of what we should do when it comes to raising children. -
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Oh dear lord, now Matt Walsh has entered the building?!
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Come on - while we probably have different views on CIO, we all have different views on everything. While there are studies to support most facets of parenting, we are talking about physically harming another human being just so they will submit to what you want.
What would you call it if a man treated his wife that way?!? Apply what @Oxana: wrote to an adult. It fits the definition of abuse! (To treat a person with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly.)
I find my center in remembering that each day belong to my LO as well. She's a person, just like I am. We both deserve to be understood, loved, and listened to.
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@catomd00: right? I am imagining the outcry that would come from someone watching an owner harshly hit their dog ten times until it whined and submitted.
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@Happygal: isn't there a woman being investigated right now for duct taping her dogs mouth shut?! I mean not right at all but it seems about 100 times less cruel than what was described earlier.
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@catomd00: "The dog should have been quiet!" - goes back to commenting on HB threads about how spanking "when done right" is okay.
FACE. PALM.
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@catomd00: I believe so. I usually don't click on articles about abuse b/c they are so upsetting to me, but I saw that one for some reason.
@princessbaby: I'm sorry to somewhat derail things by replying to Oxana's comment, but it was too disturbing to pass by. Again, there's great advice here. I was recently reading Janet L stuff and think her advice for older children is spot on. Make your plan and go for it. You're a good mom.
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3 is hard. It is. I've lost it and yelled. I've had to go in another room and ball my fists to get frustration out. I've literally growl-yelled loudly and inadvertently startled her (just again voicing out my own fustration). I've even wanted to roughly handle my youngest when she wouldnt. Stop. Screaming. I've said things in the middle of the night I'm mortified by the next day. It's all normal but as the adults we have to teach them the tools they need to learn how to handle crazy emotions.
I can't in a million years imagine purposefully and methodically hitting, though. IMO it doesn't teach anything but fear.
If I said that my husband corralled me into the bedroom and hit me again, and again, and again until he noticed a change in my sobbing and my demeanor enough to stop, people would tell me to leave, contact a woman's shelter, stay with a friend. How is it ok to do so to a child?
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@littlejoy: I like what you just wrote. That each day belongs to your child too. Janet Lansbury talks about treating children as "whole people" from the time they are itty bitty infants, and that really resonates with me.
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I need to look into this Janet Lansbury person - it sounds like my style! Does she have a book, or just podcast or?
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@sorrycharlie: http://www.janetlansbury.com/
Her articles touch upon things she covers more extensively in her books.
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@sorrycharlie: http://www.janetlansbury.com/
... And, just a preface -- Her style is not for everyone. I've found A LOT of value in her thoughts about toddlers, but I eye-rolled a lot at her advice for newborns. I think like any "philosophy" you have to pick what works for you and your family.
I purchased her book (audio book, actually) No Bad Kids, and loved it. LOVED IT!
She also has a podcast. http://www.janetlansbury.com/podcasts/
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@littlejoy: yes--I couldn't roll with a lot of the newborn stuff. Like her asking, "Am I soothing the baby to meet my needs or the baby's needs?" Come on--give a mom a break!
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@sorrycharlie: I listened to her book No bad kids via audible. It was a few hours and easy to listen to. Agree that some of the infant stuff is too much. The general themes I like but with 2 kids some of the infant stuff is insane.
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@Jackiedavis87: I don't think his comparisons were very good. I'm sure there's some people who have different degrees of verbally tearing down their child just like he was saying there's different degrees of physical correction but I don't think telling a kid why they can't have candy or need to stop yelling is tearing down your child to any degree. Just like holding onto a kids hand to cross the street isn't the same as hitting them. One is teaching them to watch out for cars the other is to watch out for mummy's emotions. And yes a kid and parent have different spots - my daughter can't punish me - but I do go off for a run or shower or some time to myself when I've had a rough day. She sees me doing that and it's teaching a coping mechanism for emotions that are acceptable in the adult world, I don't go up and smack people bc I don't like what they're doing. It teaches them to think and talk and work on all the issues that come with growing up. Not just submit or hit - I want my kids to have more self confidence and self control than that.
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@Oxana: Is your child in school yet? Are you worried that she might at some point use the behaviour that she's learned in the home on her classmates? If it gets to that point, what would you do?
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@looch: Her child is not quite two yet and I believe she SAH.
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@pwnstar: OMG!
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@looch: @pwnstar: From another thread, I think she said they don't "believe" in school (?). Even if homeschooled, certainly there will be (I hope) playgroups and playdates and other group interactions where your question is a totally valid one.
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@littlejoy: Yeah. We are talking about a ONE YEAR OLD, people. Mine is currently going through some separation anxiety and has a tantrum whenever I leave the room. Apparently I should be spanking him over and over until he shuts up.
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There are a lot of parenting choices that I do not choose, and reading here has really helped me to see why some do. But I will never, ever agree that it is ok to hit a child. Not once, and certainly never ten times. It isn't ok to hit an adult or a dog, and it is especially never ok to hit a child. This is not breast feeding versus bottle feeding. This is not some little thing that doesn't matter. This is looking at your child and causing her physical pain to deal with your own emotions.
I'm eager for the day when this is illegal everywhere.
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I have spanked my child and I hated it. In fact, my husband and I do everything else before spanking, but sometimes that is the only thing that works. I've been where PrincessBaby has been and it sucks.
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I'm realizing I didn't really answer the question since I got off track by other responses. When nothing else works, I put my son in his room and close the door. Sometimes he'll stay in there for awhile freaking out. But eventually he calms down, I give him a hug, and he comes out. Then later when we're both calm we talk about how he felt and better ways to handle it. That way he's actually learning coping skills, not just to listen to me. It's been working very well.
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@wonderstruck: I do this too. We put her in her crib with no toys or paci and just let her freak out for a few minutes. Then I walk in and hand her the paci. After a couple of minutes, we talk about why she's in trouble and both of us apologize.
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The post detailing spanking reminds me of views espoused by Michael Pearl in his book To Train Up a Child. Children have actually been killed by the idea that one should spank until they see submission.
And I say this as someone who isn't necessarily anti-spanking. I think it has its place. I was spanked growing up, but it was literally one or two switches to my leg that stung horribly and caught my attention and then my parents were quick to redirect to my behavior and why I had been punished. It was never about inducing submission.
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I don't know what is scarier ... a parent who *repeatedly* loses their cool and spanks their child out of anger, or a parent who methodically chooses to spank their child until they submit to them.
My dad was the former. There was absolutely no need for it. I love my dad, but I would never want to parent like him. Ever. And, I hope my child has a different response to my parenting.
Oh, and @OXANA: Calling your child a little bitch?!?!? To me, this is both physical AND emotional abuse. I'm so sad reading your entire post.
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@littlejoy: one of my biggest parenting goals is to raise children who feel like my parenting helped them to become happy and successful people.
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forgive me for not reading this entire conversation, but I just want to add another recommendation for Janet Lansbury. Her resources have helped me so much with learning to not let the tantrums affect me...I struggle with this and learning to let my explosive 2 year old have and express his feelings isn't always easy but it works. once the feelings pass we move on. lots of hugs and contact while he works things out on his own. very little explanation, because in those moments logic means nothing.
kids are people worthy of respect and love, and I believe the things we model for our kids must reflect that.
I also try to imagine how I would want my husband to treat me if I was falling apart about something. I actually experienced that same feeling of being hormonal and having my emotions overtake logic while i was pregnant/nursing, so i feel like I can empathize with my kid a little.. If DH was to yell at me or hit me for expressing how I felt it would obviously destroy our relationship. same goes with our kids. feelings are real whether we agree with their validity, and to a young child small things can seem all encompassing.
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Agree with the Janet Lansbury recommendations - if you take *nothing* out of her books other than the fact that you can recognize your own triggers as a parent, that alone is worth the cost of the book. I also don't agree 100% with the RIE philosophy, but I take what works for us and leave the rest.
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I also want to add one more point....There are two ways to get our children to do what we want. 1 is through submission and control. spanking meets that need, but there are other ways to do this as well. children may obey, but it's because they are afraid.
The other is trust. children obey because they trust the person in their life who is giving instruction has their best interest in mind. spanking will never obtain this goal.
for me, I would prefer trust to describe my relationship with my children. disobedience and boundary pushing will happen in either example, and I do believe in allowing natural consequences. but never instilling fear. I can't see how any good could ever come from making my children feel afraid of me.
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@Mrs. Lion: I believe that the home is the one place children shouldn't have to worry about being afraid and whether it's by physical or verbal means, hurting a child is never cool. We've all lashed out at some point in our parenting journey because we're all learning on the job and we're only human but I couldn't imagine deliberately choosing to hurt my child as my preferred method of parenting.
@princessbaby: my biggest parenting win has been learning not to be afraid of the tantrums or the big feelings and I find I'm able to parent much more effectively when I don't take A's actions personally. You're doing a great job so drink wine and keep on keeping on!
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@PrincessBaby: I don't have any advice but just know that you are not alone
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@Kemma: I couldn't agree with this more. Have I had an occasional outburst out of frustration sure, but I ALWAYS apologize and make sure DD knows she is safe and loved and that is something i need to make sure she knows constantly. Even though sh has a "tough" mentality, she's very softhearted and i know words hurt her.
I usually play into emotions to discipline her such as "that hurts mommy when she you say that" or "it makes me sad when you don't listen" it works about 75% of the time
The other 25% she's already "gone" and only separation/time out works to calm her down.
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@Kemma: I totally agree. There is a difference between yelling because we are imperfect and mess up (um, I did this today....) but like @LuLu Mom: said, we can recognize that it wasn't our goal and apologize and move on. Nobody is perfect...not our children and certainly not us
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@LuLu Mom: I have said "That is making mommy angry!" and he says "NO, it isn't". Like... how do I even respond? LOL
The other 25% she's already "gone" and only separation/time out works to calm her down.
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