My generally calm and pleasant kid is not a morning person, to put it mildly. Unfortunately, due to work and commute, we have to wake her up about an hour before she's ready (based on her normal weekend wake up time) to get her to school, so I realize that I'm messing with her rhythm but we don't have much flexibility, sadly. And she won't go to bed any earlier to shift the sleep time. So I'm trying to figure out how to help her and how to deal myself because it's becoming unmanageable. She wakes up slowly and mad, usually kicks around in bed while I'm trying to calm her, cuddle, be playful, etc. Eventually we lift her out of bed, that's usually when she starts crying and screaming. She doesn't want to go to school, she doesn't want to put on clothes, she wants to go to back to bed, etc. Most of the time we manage to at least keep her calm and distracted, other mornings it's just a complete meltdown as we try to stay calm, get her dressed (while she's screaming and fighting us at every turn), and usually by the time she gets settled for breakfast she's calmed down. We do everything we can think of- don't fight over clothes/pick our battles, give her choices, try to give her as much time to linger as we can. The biggest complaints are she doesn't want to go to school (but she's happy at school and then doesn't want to leave when we pick her up), and she doesn't want to get out of bed. Anyone have strategies that help get through this?
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I would probably do everything I can to keep her in bed as long as possible. Sleep in her clothes, breakfast in car etc. I'd grab her at the last second and throw her in the car.
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I agree, try the sleeping in the clothes thing. I have a coworker that had to do that for about a year. You've probably already tried this, but what about engaging way less while she's waking up? Like go in her room, open her curtains and turn off white noise and keep her door open while you make normal noise. And then after 5 minutes of that, maybe play some loud fun music she likes (like Frozen or something). And just don't touch or talk to her until she's awake on her own?
Every kid has their personality quirks. Mine have no problem with mornings in particular, but they have other hot buttons that set them off.
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Yup. Wake her up and basically put her straight in the car (maybe stop to go potty first). Heck I would think she could probably deal with brushing her teeth in the car or when you get to school.
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agree with other posters, but i'd also maybe try shifting bedtime earlier. maybe just like 15 minutes at a time or something so it's gradual?
also - don't we all feel like that in the mornings sometimes?
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I'd try using a sticker chart/marble jar to help motivate her. I'd suggest this to parents of my kindergarteners all the time and would get great feedback. She's at an age where seeing a visual might help her (pictures of all the "things" she needs to do in the morning), and the rewards you guys agree upon might be a good motivator. I have some charts I've made for friends' kids I can send you if you'd like as an example.
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@megjay18: I would love to shift her bedtime, but she's a night owl, only made worse by naptime at school, which energizes her to stay up later than I would like. She just won't fall asleep any earlier than her body is ready to, despite all our best interventions. I hate waking her up, and totally don't fault her for being a grump, I just would love for this to be less stressful for all of us.
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@ChiCalGoBee: That would be awesome. Could you PM me or email me directly at taleyan at gmail? I've been considering this idea, might be worth doing some more thinking on it.
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@Anagram: I should probably try engaging less. I definitely haven't. If anything, it's the opposite because I'm trying to keep her from falling back asleep and trying to counter her grumpiness with happiness (to no avail, 99% of the time).
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@Mrs. Carrot: I think most kids who are *energized* at night are really just over tired (which is why it's also harder to get them to calm down enough to fall asleep). I would move her bedtime up by 10/15 minutes or so until you shave off at least half an hour (get her bedtime to at least a half hour earlier). It doesn't really matter if she goes to sleep right away - even having a few extra minutes to decompress and to get calmed down in bed can be beneficial and can also help to get her to fall asleep sooner. My (4.5 year old) kiddo is in bed at 7:30 almost every night. Some nights she falls asleep in 10 minutes, other nights shes up quietly (and sometimes not so quietly) playing in bed until 8:30 or later). BUT. She's in bed-which is more restful than not being in bed.
I also like @Anagram's suggestion to engage her less when you wake her up in the morning.
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I would do the following:
1. ask school not to let her nap.
2. start doing a consistent wake and sleep time across weekdays and weekends, this is painful for everyone, but worth it to me. This also means no naps on the weekends
3. gradually shift bedtime earlierNow granted, if you say you're going to be changing your schedule in the short term to accommodate her sleeping in, then none of this matters. I would try to look at the long game, which may require early wakeups and address the real issues, which to me are napping and late bedtime.
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Cut that nap at school so she goes to bed much earlier! I also like the idea of soft wake ups. Open curtains and door, let light in, turn off white noise. Breakfast in car, etc.
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@pwnstar: I agree with you, but this is a long term battle for us that we've never been able to win, no matter how consistently we've tried. Believe me, I would love nothing more than have her go to sleep earlier but it doesn't work. We've even consulted sleep experts to no avail. She's in bed at least an hour before she usually actually falls asleep, often longer, She rolls around, etc., but she will fall asleep only when she's physically ready to, regardless of when she's put down. We keep lights low, no electronics or toys that are loud, bright, etc. We do a lot of quiet reading, etc. I've even written multiple blog posts about it. Hopefully as she gets older and stops napping this will all become easier, but we've been fighting this fight for years now, sadly.
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@looch @ winniebee, we have no control over the school nap. The school doesn't require sleep, but they won't keep her awake on purpose, it's against their policy, and most of the time she will fall asleep if the others do too. And for her, even a short nap will energize her for extra hours in the evening. On Friday she fell asleep in the car as we were driving for an out of town weekend, and slept a total of 45 minutes and was up for 2 additional hours in the evening, beyond when she otherwise would have gone to bed sans nap. I agree that this is the biggest issue, but short of taking her out of school, we can't do anything about it. She doesn't nap on weekends, and goes to bed significantly earlier and sleeps a lot better, so I agree that this is the root issue, but it's not one I can figure out how to get around.
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@Mrs. Carrot: Do all the classes in the school nap? If not, I would ask that they accommodate your kid by moving her to a non napping room for the time period when her class is resting. My view is they need to be part of the solution, not causing an issue that's bringing stress to the family. You all deserve a good start to the day!
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@Mrs. Carrot: Really the only work around is to move her bedtime up a little at a time--if she gets more sleep at night, she'll be less likely to nap during her nap time. I understand your frustration, but since you can't control the nap, I would work with bedtime. I also would not move bedtime based on whether she's had a nap (your example that she was up 2 hours later after a 45 minute nap). I rarely move bedtime more than 15 minutes or so because it's too inconsistent for my littles and it makes it harder to keep them on a schedule.
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@looch: Yup, all the classes do, through the pre-Ks (she's in the Jr Pre-K now). They defer to the kids - if the kids won't nap, that's fine, they can do quiet time activities, but everyone must be on cots for quiet time to start with, and if they don't fall asleep, they can do reading, Legos, etc. I know other parents have had similar frustrations, but the school's position is that if the kid is tired enough to nap, they shouldn't interfere with that.
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@Mrs. Carrot: I would then do a reset, on my own time. Take a week when you're on vacation and literally reset her internal clock to not nap, by enforcing a gradual shift to her wake and awake times. This way, when she returns to school, she's not so tired that she falls asleep and needs the nap.
The school's method, while it sounds like it respects the child, seems really unproductive. A 4 year old is absolutely developmentally ready to be awake for 12 hours without a nap and they shouldn't be hindering that, they should be developing that skill IMO. It sounds like you have another full year of this problem?
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@pwnstar: I agree with you. My point is that we've tried all that and it just doesn't work. When I say bedtime, I am talking about the time she actually falls asleep, not when we put her to bed. Her average fall asleep time on a weekday, if she naps for even a half hour, is between 10-11 PM. I can put her to bed at 8, 9, or 10, and she won't fall asleep any earlier. We tried putting her to bed at the time she actually is ready to sleep for a week or so and then moving the time up slowly by 15 minutes like you said, and it didn't change a thing, she'll still fall asleep when she's good and ready physically. We've tried just getting her in bed earlier, and it only causes her and us more frustration because she's just not ready to actually sleep. Right now she is in bed between 9-9:30 on weekdays, but she hasn't fallen asleep before 10:30 in months, If we put her to bed at 10:30, she'll usually take 10-15 minutes to calm down and then fall asleep. The only time she falls asleep quickly and easily is on weekends and she hasn't napped, in which case she has about 12-13 hours between the time she wakes up and the time she's ready to fall asleep. I had a consult with 2 different sleep therapists in January to get a check on what else we could do, and neither of them could recommend anything beyond what we've already tried and done.
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@looch: Unfortunately, yeah. Interestingly, when I spoke with a sleep therapist back in January (this is an ongoing issue for us so I wanted to make sure we weren't screwing her up), she said that it was interesting that her school would stick to the nap. She said most schools don't do it after 3-4 years old, and the sleep professionals find that to be more damaging to kids, so while it's a pain in the rear for us, it seems to be a better approach from a professional sleep perspective (at least the ones we talked to).
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@Mrs. Carrot: I don't understand why the school can't not nap her. They're required to give rest time at certain ages, but can't they give her books or puzzles to do? I don't really know many 4 year olds who still nap - I know that if my son had even a short nap at age 4, his bedtime would be 10 pm. I really think this is the root of the problem! I would be very upset if my son's school didn't honor my request in terms of naps. Even with our 2 year old - if I say - wake him up by X time, the school will honor my request. The fact that you've consulted with sleep therapists who say she doesn't need a nap and then the school continues to let her nap....that would not fly over here!
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@winniebee: I completely agree it's the root of the problem. Because there hasn't been a swell of parents asking for a no nap exception, they don't want to single her out, and they take the approach of "if she wants to nap, we shouldn't stop her." Which I get to an extent, but we haven't been able to move the needle on it on our own.
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@Mrs. Carrot: what are your plans for next school year? will she be at the same school? if she will continue to be at this school, frankly I would tell the director that they need to cut her nap or else you'll find a new school.
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@winniebee: She goes to kindergarten in September 2018, so we really don't want to move her at this point. We have one of those rare finds in the DC area that's a full day program, close to home, affordable and the kid loves it. We're kinda just been fighting the fight at home as much as possible and hoping she'll just outgrow the nap on her own, but I definitely plan to revisit the question with the teachers/director periodically.
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@Mrs. Carrot: What time is it that you're waking her up on weekday mornings?
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@Truth Bombs: 6:45-7, leave the house around 7:45-8. Her natural wake-up time (on weekends, sans naps) is 7:30-8.
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@Mrs. Carrot: Can you and your husband alternate days to go in to work late and let her sleep to her natural time for a full week? If you're waking her up about 9 hours after she falls asleep, I can totally understand why she's cranky and why she would need a nap at school. I agree with the school policy not to wake her if she falls asleep for nap, especially because it sounds like she's chronically overtired. But if you could allow her to wake up on her own time she'd be less likely to nap at school, and then more likely to fall asleep at a more appropriate bed time. But she would need to do that for more than just two days in a row on the weekend to make it her new normal.
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@Mrs. Carrot: maybe she also just doesn't like being woken up - because the time difference for wake up time that you've outlined isn't too great (except she's going to bed a lot later during the week). How about a tot alarm clock that wakes her up and then she can toss and turn and lay in bed and get used to the idea before she has to talk to someone?
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@Truth Bombs: Yup, I completely agree, and yes, we're thinking about trying it out with the schedule shift. As I was writing this post it was occurring to me that we might be out of creative ideas at this point and need to try and see what happens with a schedule shift.
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@winniebee: That's a really interesting idea, thanks! We do have the OK to Wake clock that we never really used so that might be worth a try.
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@Mrs. Carrot: i believe that clark has an alarm function on it too
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@Mrs. Carrot: As a spin off to what @Truth Bombs: suggested, what about doing lunch with her for a week (when she would normally nap) to keep her awake during that time to get an early bedtime?
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@pwnstar: Great idea!
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I would wake her up way later. An hour to get ready in the morning seems excessive for a kid that is clearly not ready to be awake then.
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@Mrs. Carrot: I would totally push her wake up time to 7:30. Put a cheap light timer in her room so the lights turn on at 7 am. Open her door so she hears the noises in the house. But by 7:30 I would basically get her up, carry her to the potty, and put her in the car. Use the extra time that you aren't fighting with her to pack her a breakfast and stuff for the car.
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@Mrs. Carrot: I'd try to get her more outdoor time/exercise in the afternoon or early evening. If you can, swing by a park on the way home or take a walk or bike ride around the neighborhood or go to the pool/rec center in the evening. If that's difficult, ask the school to increase outside/physical play post-nap time. My son is a night owl too, and my tried and true solution to getting him to sleep is getting him sweating (or swimming) in the early evening.
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I am not a morning person and I never have been. It was really hard for my folks to get me up for school. I think she basically needs a toddler snooze button. Like she needs an alarm and some gradual ways to wake up. I agree with all the suggestions for indirect wake ups like a lamp switch on a timer that turns on in the morning or opening her blinds and curtains quietly while she's asleep so the sun can help wake her, playing upbeat music she likes in the house and gradually increasing the volume of it like a cell phone alarm does. Talk to your husband loudly and don't tip toe around. Make other things wake her up more naturally instead of you.
I also agree you should try to wake her as late as possible. Put her in bed in soft cotton separates at night, potty, teeth, and right to the car. Have a toasted bagel or GoGurt already in the car with water or milk and have her eat on the way to school. Don't engage her and try to be all up in her grill, just silently move her along and let her just wake up. Play some soft music in the car and let her be. Socks and shoes can come on once you arrive. I really don't see why you can't wake her at 730am.
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I feel you. DS is 4 and while he is an early bird there have been more days lately that he is sleeping in. On those days when I have to wake him he is a grumpy disaster. He has one speed, which is slow, in the mornings.
Now that the weather is nice can you let her play outside while you get dinner ready etc, to wear her out a bit. DS will play in our yard alone for a bit and I find that those nights he goes to bed easier.
Our daycare still naps and it can be hard sometimes. On the weekends he sometimes naps, but we don't make him. We just enforce a quiet time.
Bedtime is always 8pm. Some nights he is awake until close to 10, which is way too late. But as long as he is quiet in bed we leave him be. He has a soft light in his bed that stays on for 10 minutes and sometimes he will turn that on and look at a book.
Hopefully you can figure out something soon that makes your mornings better.
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I just wanted to offer you some commiseration. My DD is 6 and a night owl/late sleeper. We are fortunate to not need to leave for the day until 8:40ish. I often have to go in and wake her up at 7:45 or 8, and sometimes the fastest way to wake her up is to dress her myself while she's still half asleep. She's a slow mover in the mornings and she prefers to eat her breakfast in PJs but our morning goes more smoothly when she is dressed and pottied before she eats breakfast. If she can do those things by 8 am then we can be ready for shoes on at 8:30. I'll agree with others--at age 4, if she had a nap she would be up all night (though she doesn't nap now and is still sometimes awake at 10). If you can streamline at all to let her sleep later I would recommend it I hope you find a happy solution for your family.
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To add to my prior post, I would also push back the wake up time and not worry about trying to get the school to not do a nap. My son was still taking fairly regular naps at 4, and yes, he was up until 9:30/10/sometimes 10:30. (That's still his bedtime, two years later. I think some children are naturally night owls and it's sort of futile to resist it too strenuously.) He woke up on his own around 8/8:30. I agree with the school's' philosophy on not keeping children awake if they're inclined to nap. I would ask them to add more physical movement in the afternoon instead and then tinker around with wake up time and extra physical endeavors in the evening to see what works best. Good luck!
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