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If you have a boy, are you red shirting for school?

  1. Orchid

    clementine / 927 posts

    Kinda. We will homeschool and plan to go light on formal schooling until about 7.

  2. blackbird

    wonderful grape / 20453 posts

    I probably would, based on watching my brother grow up as the very youngest in his class. He was so far behind, never was old enough to do things that his friends were doing, and it seemed like a constant issue. I think so so much depends on the individual child, but I feel like a boy, especially, could benefit from an extra year of maturity. I would likely always second guess myself if we didn't. But I actually have actively avoided having August/September babies for this reason.

  3. winniebee

    hostess / wonderful grape / 20803 posts

    @aprild: Yeah, I heard a program on NPR discussing the same thing...that it's putting the kids who would typically be middle of the pack at a disadvantage. I kind of wish there were rules against red shirting unless there was a medical need.

  4. Veggiemama

    apricot / 287 posts

    I thought it was only red shirting if you tried to go around whatever the cut off is to have your child be among the eldest in their class? My son was born in November, our cut off is September 1st so he will turn 6 shortly after starting kindergarten. I don't consider that red shirting because we're following the guidelines.

    On the other hand, a friend's son's birthday is August 1, she held him back this year so he will be 6 and one month when he starts K. Her reasons were for social and emotional development but she and her husband are very competitive and athletic so I have a feeling that factored in, even if they won't admit it! I consider that red shirting.

  5. hilsy85

    squash / 13764 posts

    @winniebee: this is a good article that kind of summarizes the opposing viewpoints:
    http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/the_kids/2013/09/academic_redshirting_what_does_the_research_say_about_delaying_kindergarten.html

    research is somewhat mixed but generally I think the consensus is that there is no real need to redshirt unless, like you said, there is a medical or serious behavioral issue.

  6. Periwinkle

    pear / 1879 posts

    LO's birthday is in early November and our school district's cutoff date is 10/1, so LO will be on the older side when he starts. My general feeling is that it's better, at least socially, to start a bit later so I am not concerned about waiting a year (not that we have a choice). The only piece I am dreading is the additional year or preschool tuition!

  7. winniebee

    hostess / wonderful grape / 20803 posts

    @Veggiemama: red shirting is when your child is old enough to start kindergarten, but you choose not to send them until age 6 or older. for example, if you have a kid with a July birthday, who turns 5 in July, he would be eligible to go to K starting in September of the year he turns 5. Many parents choose to wait another year until the child is 6. Truancy laws just mandate that a child who is 6 attend school...so if a child has a summer birthday, they aren't in violation of truancy laws until the fall that they are 6.

  8. cat620

    pear / 1809 posts

    @hilsy85: Thanks for posting that article. I think this is interesting: "Redshirted kids these days are most likely to be boys who come from affluent families—one study from California reported that parents who redshirt their kids earn, on average, 40 percent more than those who don’t—because, as mentioned earlier, low-income parents typically can’t afford to pay for another year of preschool. (In the 2006 study involving 15,000 kids, the redshirted kids’ families had lower incomes than the non-redshirted kids’ families—another reason why old studies aren’t necessarily applicable today.) So when researchers compare redshirted kids to non-redshirted kids, they’re often comparing socio-economic apples and oranges."

  9. catlady

    grapefruit / 4988 posts

    I don't have a boy but I would never red shirt. My LO has an Oct birthday (cutoffs in our state are generally either Sept or Oct 1) and I wish I could do the opposite and get her in earlier. My kid does better with older kids and it bugs me that she will always be the oldest. I was in the same position growing up (cutoffs back then were Dec 31, and I have a Jan birthday, so I was the oldest). I was always so bored in school and ahead of my peers.

  10. cat620

    pear / 1809 posts

    That's always the flaw with a lot of these studies is they don't take into account socioeconomic differences. Just looking at age isn't accurate.

  11. looch

    wonderful pear / 26210 posts

    I feel like the decision was made by the parents the year before us, and for them, the parents the year before them.

    I would have put my son in on time, if the class didn't have kids one full year older than him. I think there is just too much difference between kids that are 4 and 5 years old and frankly, I don't want my to have an unsuccessful year in kindergarten, not be able to repeat it and then get pushed into first grade.

  12. hilsy85

    squash / 13764 posts

    @aprild: yep it would be interesting to do the studies again now with the new information about more affluent families being the ones to do redshirting. I'm sure results would be different...but again, is that really due to redshirting or SES differences?

  13. BandDmommy

    pomelo / 5660 posts

    I would not. I've heard about people red shirting for sports purposes, how silly is that?? They are little kids, give me a break.

  14. skipra

    pomegranate / 3350 posts

    Definitely not with LO1. He just misses the cutoff by about a week and will be one of the oldest.
    What I am seeing in our town is that with July and August birthdays the majority of boys will be held back and even into June. LO2 has a May bday so if he doesn't seem fully ready to start we will consider doing Montessori for K. I have heard that sometimes Montessori kids are not at the same level so if he would need to repeat K I would be open to it.

  15. winniebee

    hostess / wonderful grape / 20803 posts

    @skipra: Montessori kids are not on same level meaning more ready or less ready?

  16. avivoca

    watermelon / 14467 posts

    Absolutely not. Not only would that mean another year paying for daycare/preschool, but I don't think it's necessary unless there is a specific, documented reason for it.

  17. skipra

    pomegranate / 3350 posts

    @winniebee: I think Montessori is great but I have heard that with how academic K has become that kids are not at the same level with reading? I don't know how true that is though, just what I heard!
    ETA less ready

  18. BandDmommy

    pomelo / 5660 posts

    @winniebee: my neighbors son went to Montessori through 3rd grade and he's top of his class in public school. No issues transitioning.

  19. winniebee

    hostess / wonderful grape / 20803 posts

    @skipra: I've never heard that....they definitely do reading and academic activities at Montessori and it actually seems less play based than daycare/ other preschool . Who knows!

  20. Pirouette

    pomegranate / 3331 posts

    the whole idea of redshirting stresses me out. I have a daughter who is a few weeks ahead of the cutoff (december in our case) and she's too young for us to decide yet, but based on what she's like now, I have no plans to hold her back. However, she's very small for her age, and the idea of a good portion of her class being redshirted 6 year olds makes me feel like we're gonna be pushed against following the rules, even if she's ready academically, socially, etc.

    As someone who thrived being the youngest in my class, it makes me sad that things have changed so much that my LO might not get that same opportunity. It was pretty unheard of to redshirt when i was growing up.

  21. looch

    wonderful pear / 26210 posts

    @Pirouette: That's exactly what happened in my son's case. I would have sent him on time, but in reality, the choice wasn't mine to make. I really tried not to let money make the decision for us either. As much as I would love to have the money we paid for our son's preschool this year invested in his 529, I would rather have him be successful in kindergarten.

    It's common in my area (affluent, I guess) to hold back kids (both boys and girls) that have Oct-Dec birthdays. The cut off is technically 12/31.

  22. winniebee

    hostess / wonderful grape / 20803 posts

    @Pirouette: I was a july 30 bday for 9/1 cut off and did great! but, I'm a girl so maybe that makes a difference. It never seemed to matter for me!

  23. Pirouette

    pomegranate / 3331 posts

    @looch: i think it's so unfortunate that the choice was taken out of your hands. I really wish it was more standardized - what's the point of a deadline if it's not enforced at all?

    @winniebee: that's the thing, i'm not sure it would matter to my LO either - she loves older kids and thrives around them (now at least). But it seems crazy to take someone who would be the youngest in her class under the normal guidelines, and make her the youngest by another 6 months because all the kids a few months older than her are redshirted. At the end of the day, it will depend on what her school is like in this regard.

  24. LBee

    pomegranate / 3895 posts

    @looch: @Pirouette: I agree with this. My son is 2 days off from our cutoff and it's extremely common to redshirt where I live (mostly assumed). I have been very influenced by the fact that if I don't hold him back that there could be a two (!!) year spread between him and some of the kids in his class. I understand that I'm just falling into the trend and perpetuating the problem, but when it comes to my son's academic and social performance, I don't really want to be the outlier.

    I don't parent in absolutes, though. I'll do what's best for my kid.

  25. psw27

    pomelo / 5220 posts

    My LO is an 8/4 baby and our cut off is 9/1. He was a preemie but I think he is essentially "caught up" but it is still something I am considering in making my decision. I think we will hold him back a year if we feel that socially and emotionally he is not ready to move into full time schooling.

    My brother is a 9/6 birthday and my mom did 2 years of kindergarten with him back in the 80s because he was a bit immature. My mom also felt that she wanted him to be one of the first to drive, be 21, etc. once he got older because she felt like he would be left out as the kids got older if he was nearly a year younger than some.

    As with all parenting choices, I just feel like there is no "right" choice and you just have to make the best one based on your kid.

  26. cat620

    pear / 1809 posts

    Here are the statistics on the ages kids are when they start kindergarten: According to the most recent data available from the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), in the 2010-2011 school year only 6 percent of kids started kindergarten at age 4, 42 percent of kids were between 5 and 5½, 43 percent were between 5½ and 6 years old — and more than 9 percent of kids starting kindergarten had already turned 6.

    I realize this is several years old, but I wonder if we think redshirting is more common than it really is? It seems like the majority of kids are still 5 when they start kindergarten.

  27. T-Mom

    honeydew / 7488 posts

    My DS misses the cutoff by a week and will be the oldest in his class already. If he were the youngest and having a lot of difficulty, I would maybe consider it.

    My DD made the cutoff by 2 days and is literally the youngest. She is a 7 yr old 2nd grader and has classmates who are 9, it's insane. Her grades are terrific, so it ultimately depends on the child. Also, she attended a Montessori school till Kinder.

  28. Twolittlemen

    cherry / 109 posts

    DS2 has a late july birthday and cutoff here is 8/7 for public but 6/1 for private. He will be going to public school and I do not plan to hold him back- he will be newly 5 when he starts K.

    However, in preschool hes in now some parents that have children there are going to do public and some are going to do private elementary. They change classrooms at the beginning of the summer program. so last year when my child was still 2 (two months from 3) we got an invitation to another boy in the classes party (he was turning 4).

    I totally have a problem with this! they let the parents decide on class placement due to what school the child will be attending in the future with the minimum being to adhere to the later public school start date. But this is preschool!!! should my 2 year old be in a class with 4 year olds because I am following the rules??

  29. rachiecakes

    coconut / 8279 posts

    J is a December baby as well so he won't be in Kindergarten until he's almost 6. I worry that he might get bored in class and get into trouble. He loves learning now and can't get enough of it, being a little bit older may make things worse?
    We're going to send him the year he's eligible and then reassess where he is academically with the school.

  30. ModernDayJibarita

    apricot / 259 posts

    We are having a baby boy in May and have no plan to red-shirt. He might very well be the youngest in his class if the June.July and August babies are red-shirted.

  31. skipra

    pomegranate / 3350 posts

    @winniebee: Yes I thought that too. Maybe there are just some major misconceptions on Montessori or that kids that do well with it maybe have traits that predispose them to do poorly in traditional settings. I know at least one girl kept getting kicked out of her daycare, did great in Montessori and is majorly struggling in first grade. Probably a good portion of the problem are behavior issues causing academic issues. But I am only speaking of the few cases I have heard about.

  32. hilsy85

    squash / 13764 posts

    @Pirouette: you're in NY right? I believe that you are not allowed to redshirt here--they must go to school the year they turn 5, unless you plan to just enroll them in 1st grade the next year. http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/1CC25F63-74E8-41A6-8031-490F206F148D/0/A101.pdf

    Kind of nice to not have to worry about it!

  33. MrsLonghorn

    clementine / 806 posts

    Our cutoff for both public and most private schools is Sept 1. DS was born Sept 24, so we're following the rules, but he will be one of the oldest in his class.

    Our current daycare moves kids up right around their birthdays, but the daycare we're hoping to transfer to next year uses the strict Sept 1 cutoff. So he's "repeating" toddlers next year, even though he turns 2 in September. I'm a little bummed about this, because right now he does really well surrounded by older kids -- he rises up to meet them in terms of walking/language/play. I'm not quite ready to lose that, but oh well... I do think it will be an advantage when he is older - I was one of the oldest in my class, and it was great for me.

  34. Pirouette

    pomegranate / 3331 posts

    @hilsy85: we were, but unfortunately we're in the 'burbs now, where redshirting is definitely rampant! I really wish all of NY was standardized like that!

  35. snowjewelz

    wonderful kiwi / 23653 posts

    I have a girl, and we don't cut off at our school district so as long as she's doing well and keeping up we don't plan to hold her back.

  36. hilsy85

    squash / 13764 posts

    @Pirouette: ah! didn't know you'd moved--exciting!

  37. Pirouette

    pomegranate / 3331 posts

    @hilsy85: yes! the whole having a kid thing made NYC not quite as affordable

  38. SeptMomma12

    pear / 1849 posts

    @Truth Bombs: Yes, that vicious cycle is what's giving us pause. My son just makes the cutoff by 2 weeks and we have all intentions of sending him on time (he's only 3 now), but I hate that he could have kids a year and a half older than him in his class because redshirting boys has become so common here.

  39. sorrycharlie

    hostess / watermelon / 14932 posts

    I'm in RI, where the cut off is 9/1. I have a girl, but she'll turn 6 three weeks after starting kindergarten. I'm a little annoyed by that (I mean really, there could be a kid turning 5 only a day before school starts!) and afraid she's going to be very bored. Sigh.

  40. Autumnmama79

    pear / 1703 posts

    This is not a common practice in this part of Canada but I have had several discussions about it in a professional capacity.

    Here, children attend kindergarten the year they turn 5, even if that means December 31st. Almost no one holds back their children, regardless of gender.

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