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It's definitely alive and well in terms of stigmas in the online community.
I always assumed most women formula fed and it was the rare occasion to meet someone who BF'ed..or it was a thing of "older generations" .
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@sarac: Picking up on one of your comments, my feeling is that part of the stigma is that women "choose" not to do it. Honestly, I worked really hard to BF my son but he was low birth weight and was never a good nurser and then, at 6 weeks old, cut nursing sessions to 5 minutes total (only taking 1.5 ounces) and would cry and cry. I paid for an LC to work with me but in the end it just didn't work out so I started exclusively pumping....but then gave that up when I faced an elimination diet since turns out my son had MSPI.
So I guess that's part of my hang up. People assume if you FF you chose not to BF, but that's not always the case. And even if it is the case, many times mom chose to give up BF because it was extremely stressful and/or not working out.
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I think that some of this has a good amount of history to it. Obviously, way way way back in the day (think pioneers and earlier) everyone breast fed or had wet nurses because alternatives were not really available. I would bet there was a lot of stigma then on formula feeding because it wasn't done. Then early in this century, formula became more and more available. It was originally a luxury because of the price. Ultimately what happens with luxuries is that everyone wants one (think iPhone and now it isn't a luxury). So, this wasn't so much stigmatized as much as coveted.
The US especially moved from breastfeeding to formula feeding. At that point, those that breastfed were stigmatized. That is when breastfeeding women yearned for support and the ability to feel "normal". I know that I have heard of women being told that breastfeeding was "low class" since it was free and women who have money wouldn't do it.
I think now, we are coming to the other side of the pendulum in which breastfeeding is needing less support (as far as the, for lack of another word, choice, not the difficulty of doing it). Now, formula feeding needs many of the support that the breastfeeders needed earlier.
Also, historically (pioneers again), women had a large support system (parents, grandparents, religious groups, etc) so there were many who could help "teach" breastfeeding. Since then, we have moved from our support systems and have lost some of that support for learning the skills. We have lost our support for other things as well with this move from familial groupings.
I am not saying either is bad and I would hope that one day it wouldn't matter.
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@winniebee: I mean, I know women who have nursed through low birth weight, through terrible painful thrush, through frequent low volume feedings. My own sister nursed through a bad milk/soy/wheat allergy and really suffered not being able to eat much. I dealt with a baby who wanted to cluster feed for 3-4 hours in the evenings for the first few months of her life. And frequent low volume feeds, and low birth weight and slow weight gain. I had a lot of people ask when I planned to supplement.
Nursing can be hard, I get it. But the woman who physically cannot due to low or absent prolactin, or absent milk producing tissue, is very very rare. Instead, many women have difficulties, and they don't have the support, or the help, or the energy to get past it. And who would, when most of us have to go back to work after 6 or 8 weeks, and we barely have any family around to help so we carry the load ourselves, and we've lost all this cultural knowledge about breastfeeding to the point where women who need and want help don't get it.
I just think it would be more productive to admit that 99% of women who use formula made a choice. I think the stigma needs to be removed from that so that they don't feel shamed. If you don't want to breastfeed, that should be ok. If you want to but find it so hard for WHATEVER reason, that should be ok. All of these things should be ok.
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@brownie:
"Also, historically (pioneers again), women had a large support system (parents, grandparents, religious groups, etc) so there were many who could help "teach" breastfeeding. Since then, we have moved from our support systems and have lost some of that support for learning the skills. We have lost our support for other things as well with this move from familial groupings."
I think this is 90% of the problem. Women don't know how to breastfeed (I sure as heck didn't) because they don't watch their mothers or sisters or friends do it. Doctors don't often teach them, nurses only sometimes. Misinformation is everywhere, and all of it from people who just want what's best for everyone.
I think this is the root of the issue, honestly. I wish that everyone who wanted to could breastfeed, and that so many women didn't feel like they couldn't. And I want people who truly don't want to breastfeed to be able to do it without judgement.
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There is such a stigma attached to FF. I think that people get pretty high and mighty about EBF, and the evidence that 'proves' it is better is actually quite thin. Many of the studies that show that EBF is better don't correct for SES etc.
I do EBF my baby, but I don't think that it IS healthier for every mom and every baby. One has to take into account health isn't just about the body. The emotional, spiritual, and physical health all are factors, and for many parents, EBF isn't the healthiest option for them.
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@sarac: I understand what you mean that for most women breastfeeding is physically possible. Very few women suffer from actual medical conditions that would prevent them from breastfeeding. The issue, to me, is that breastfedding may be physically possible, it may impossible for other reasons such as work/career (not all occupations are able to feed or pump during the work day), emotional/psychological reasons, finances, family structure, etc... Personally, I probably would have been physically able to breastfeed but it would have been impossible due to emotional/psychological issues. I could have produced milk, but emotionally I wouldn't have been able to struggle through and persevere without some major damage.
The biggest problem I have with labeling these issues as a choice not to breastfeed rather than an inability to breastfeed is that its pretty widely regarded that breastfeeding is the BEST choice. If a mother chooses not to give her child the best, what kind of parent is she? That's the stigma I see with the bf vs ff debate: breastfeeding is the best and any woman who is physically capable of it but chooses not to is a sub-par parent.
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@Honeybee: See, that part is hard for me, because it's pretty scientifically established that breastfeeding is nutritionally the absolute best. I don't think that can be argued. Formula doesn't have a lot of the benefits that breastmilk does, hands down.
I prefer to frame it in terms of mothering in general. Breastmilk is the best nutrition choice, ok. But a mother who is horribly stressed and unhappy to be breastfeeding? Not worth it. A mother who has to spend every one of her breaks at work pumping and comes home miserable and can't parent well? Not worth it. A mother who has to starve herself to breastfeed an allergenic child? Absolutely not worth it, in my opinion.
I think that the overall choice to feed your baby in a way that makes you sane and happy is the best choice. I do think that breastfeeding should be promoted and supported first, because it's the best choice nutritionally. But the actual best choice is the one that lets you be a happy mother, and that's what I'd really like to see supported.
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@sarac: well, you just met one of those very rare people who had absent prolactin. It was due to medical complications during delivery.
@sarac: There have also been studies done that look into how big of a nutritional gap there really is. How much the rate of illness is in ff vs bf babies... All kinds of things. You know what? The difference if much, much less than most would lead women to believe. Its, honestly, pretty negligible. No woman should have breastfeeding shoved down her throat because the fact of the matter is that there ARE women who simply choose not to BF. Why should they be treated as less because of that? Doctors and hospitals shouldnt be supporting one decision over the other. Why? Because its none of their business how a mother choses to feed her child. We should be giving women the education they need to make a decision for themselves and then staying out of it.
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@Honeybee: Agree : /
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Around my area (Southwestern Ontario) I see much more FF babies than EBF babies and I feel like the odd one out all the time. DD is 7 months old and people keep saying "Oh you're still nursing?" or "When are you going to switch her to formula?". On top of that I get a lot of "No one else can feed her" (wrong) "Doesn't seem like she's eating enough" (wrong) and the worst for me is when I take out my COVER and nurse her people will literally clear the room. It makes me sad that feeding my little girl means everyone will just quietly make an excuse to leave the room because it makes them uncomfortable, so I sit alone, or maybe with DH if he's there.
What it all boils down to is that on both sides of the fence, we're feeling beat up about how/what/when we feed our babies, and I think that is because of the crazy mommy wars that exist and the guilt that we place on ourselves. Bottom line, every mother has to make a choice for their child, and everyone else has to mind their own beeswax!! lol! We've got to stop hating on eachother so the world will stop hating on us
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@zippylef: We're just not going to find common ground on that part. But I think we're both pretty clearly saying that we want the judgement removed. I especially hate to see the judgement of women like you, who didn't even get to make the choice, they just had it made for them.
As an aside, the only reason I mention that women like you are rare is that so many women who's milk comes in a little slow (like me, didn't come in until day 4), or isn't strong at first, get told that they're 'not producing enough' and that they need to supplement with formula. Then a vicious cycle starts and their breasts don't get the stimulation needed to produce more and they never make enough milk. And then they feel like they failed to meet their goals, when if they'd just had the right support, they could have established a good supply and breastfed for as long as they chose. This is such a common story, and it is so avoidable. That's my only point, there.
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@hummusgirl: congrats on the baby and sorry to hear you are going through some BF problems. I have a great LC if you need a recommendation.
I just want to add that the new law is not a formula ban. It simply limits the free samples that formula manufacturers hand out to new parents as a way to encourage breastfeeding. It has been shown that some new parents turn to formula samples when they are having difficulty breastfeeding and since formula is way sweeter and more filling that breastmilk, babies may not want breastmilk after tasting formula thus creating a taste preference for formula and lower milk production. So, all you have to do to get your free samples is to request them, they are still available and easy to get and free. And there are stores that sell formula on every corner. I think hospitals should encourage breastfeeding while making formula available as well. I don't think any mom should judge any other mom on her decision to feed her baby, but I do think there are some parents out there who give up BF'ing because there is formula around. The sooner a baby takes to formula, especially the brand they already have on hand, the more profits for the manufacturer. That is the only reason the samples are free to being with. There is a pure profit motive behind that free sample.
I hope breastfeeding gets better for you. It got a lot easier for me right around 4 weeks and we are still going at 6 months.
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I think there definitely is a stigma; I think there is a stigma for a lot of things that are anything less than prancing happily around in a field of wildflowers while you naturally give birth without complications since that’s what “women are made/built to do” and you just have to “trust yourself”.
My milk never came in; neither did my co-workers wife’s and a good friend of ours had to switch to a bottle because her baby could not figure out how to latch properly (even after hiring 2 lactation consultants). Women have always had trouble breast-feeding; that’s why there have always been wet nurses. Today instead of having to hire a wet nurse, we can formula feed.
I think a lot of the nutritional value of breast milk would depend on what the mother is eating; wouldn’t it? If she isn’t getting a balanced diet – might it be just as healthy to formula feed where the baby will get a wider range of vitamins and minerals?
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@prettylizy: my FIL is absolutely the most awkward person in the world about nursing. I was over at their house the other day nursing on the couch WITH MY COVER and he walked in, so that i was nursing, and then walked back out and sat on the porch until I finished. It made me feel like I had the plague. Seriously, I HAVE A COVER ON! It is only a big deal if you make it a big deal.... lol
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@yoursilverlining: I agree with the whole "dancing around in field with a natural/uncomplicated childbirth thing."
I felt a lot of guilt for having a medically assisted childbirth (I was induced) thanks to documentaries/books/forums. -
I live in southern Oklahoma and hardly anybody here Breastfeeds, they may "try" it at the beginning but do not try harder or change things up to make it work. I know most people just go straight to formula feeding. I only breastfed for 3 months bc I was working full time An it was so stressful, my job didn't support offering a pumping spot(bc no one around here works and pumps) so I had to go home on my lunch breaks and pump. Only had 30 min lunch breaks and I live 10 mins away. So I was only pumping once in about a 9 hr span. My supply dropped drastically and eventually dried up.. I got so many comments like wow your still Breastfeeding or I can't believe you use your lunch breaks to pump. I did not have a very good Breastfeeding support group, anytime we would come across a problem the solution was to "well you should switch to formula and this wouldn't happen"
I probably wouldn't have breastfed and tried hard to make it work if it wasn't for the online communities I am apart of, or the blogs I read, simply because its just not the norm here. I'm so glad I did breastfeed Even if it was just 3 months. I feel like LO greatly benefited from it and wish I was still bf'ing.
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I'll add one last comment that I think part of the stigma that comes from formula feeding is the idea that formula is not an equal alternative to breastmilk. I've often come across the idea that formula should only be used if breastfeeding isn't working; in other words, that breastmilk is always best first choice, and formula is an inferior alternative that should only be used if breastfeeding doesn't work out. And, well, I guess I kind of see breastmilk and formula as equal alternatives, neither one better than the other. In my mind, the nutritional superiority of one may be cancelled out by the emotional/physical/etc... superiority of the other. I don't think one is inherently better than the other, but depending on the circumstances, one may be a better fit. Does that make sense?
I wish that we could get to a point where all parenting choices are accepted as equal alternatives, as long as the child is being well cared for. Because, honestly, breastfeeding is such a small issue in the grand scheme of things. In the end, it's 1-2 years out of a lifetime of parenting choices, and there are many, many issues that will have a much bigger impact on the life of a child than whether s/he was breastfed. (Ditto to the natural birthing stigma; it's literally one of the smallest impact decisions a parent will ever make).
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@Honeybee: YES. I had typed a post trying to say something similar but you said it much better than I.
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@Honeybee: I agree with you.
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