Hellobee Boards

@Pumpkin Pie: The phrase "there is no atheist in a foxhole" is by definition an absolutist statement. The "no" makes no caveats. Maybe you meant it was true for you personally, but that's not what you said. This article provides a pretty good explanation of why it's offensive. http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2010/02/09/atheists-in-foxholes/ And whether you think it's offensive or not, there are a LOT of atheists who would be offended if they heard you say it, particularly those like me who consider their atheism an important part of their identity, so it's worth keeping in mind no matter how you personally feel about it.

That being said, I don't want to argue about it. I've made my point, and feel free to provide a rejoinder, but I'm leaving it at that.

I think it's interesting that some people identify as agnostic or not religious despite the fact that they believe in God. To me, you can disagree with some of the church's views while still being religious, you just don't identify with that particular church/religion. I always saw agnostic as more of a middle ground - you don't believe or not believe in God/Jesus/etc, you've just accepted that there is no way for you to know whether or not any of that exists during your time here on earth. That's how I feel, anyways.

My family is Catholic; growing up I attended church and religion classes every week, went through the sacraments, etc. But I've always questioned it - I can remember being as young as 8 or 9 and crying to my mom about how I wanted to believe in heaven and God so badly, because it seemed like a lovely idea and I desperately want there to be something more for us once we die...but even as a young kid, I wanted proof. I needed the logic. Blind faith...it's just not something I've ever found myself to be capable of. I tried for many years and finally stopped trying. It's much less stress for me to just accept the fact that I won't ever know for sure. Unless I die and there is something more, but I'm quite skeptical.

I'm also surprised to see so many of you that are atheist/agnostic because of how other people in your religion acted - I mean, I get how it could turn you off of that specific church, I guess I just don't get how another person's behavior could completely turn you from a believer to a non-believer in God. Probably partially because I just can't relate; although of course I know some religious people who use their religion as a reason to be an asshole, I also grew up with a priest (who was also a friend of our family) who would occasionally end up in hot water for speaking out about things like how he felt it was wrong that only males could be priests.

I hope it's okay that I add my perspective. I am agnostic, and we do not take part in any religious practices. I grew up in a Christian house, went to church, etc.

Growing older changed things for me. (Meeting new people, learning about different cultures, finding my own beliefs.) I started practicing mindfulness and meditation during pregnancy, which brought me more in-tune with my spiritual side. I realized I'm not sure what I believe, but putting faith into the universe, karma, etc. makes my heart feel the most whole.

I chose to stop attending church at an early age (14 or so), because I could already see the hypocrisy of many members of our congregation. <- This is very personal, and I understand that some churches are wonderful, welcoming places.

Here's my novel =)

I was super religious growing up. We were at church every Sunday morning, Sunday night, and Wednesday night. We didn't do Santa because the focus of Christmas was on the birth of Jesus.

I actually knew a lot of really nice Christian people growing up, myopic as they were...and the things I miss most about church is having that church family, the built in social schedule (if you get involved), the many ways you can give back to the community because there are always food drives and chances to volunteer at old folks' homes, etc. etc. and I most of all miss the singing. If you aren't religious, there's no other real place outside a church that an adult can go to belt out some beautiful songs with a bunch of other adults all together and work on those five part harmonies. I did True Love Waits, and I went on mission trips and went to church camp every summer. My grandfather is a pastor and my dad was a deacon.

But, I am (well was...pre baby) a voracious reader and as I got older I started reading about Christianity from a historical perspective (not a Christian perspective) and I learned so much about middle eastern religions and it became more and more clear to me that Christianity was just a fad religion that has lasted a long time. There are other prophets exactly like Jesus, who preached the same things and also had the "risen from the dead" scenario.

I read books about Christianity from the Jewish perspective (that was eye opening) and I read the qu'ran (which is just like the bible...scarily similar).

And this coincided with me waking up to social issues. I started searching for a new sect of Christianity, thinking I could find one that matched my new ideas or at least acknowledged that these things were there, in history...but I found that no one--not my family, not my pastor--could even start to answer these questions I had. They would always bring it back to blind faith--it doesn't have to be logical, you just have to believe, I was told. But by then, I felt like I'd been deliberately blinkered. Like all the churches I'd attended my whole life had deliberately kept all this historical information from the congregants because it DOESN'T make sense.

And then I started becoming kind of a fanatic in a bad way about questioning certain Protestant Christian commonalities. Like: the New Testament clearly says that women should cover their hair, should not wear braided hair, or earrings or jewelry...and yet, most Christian sects outside of the Amish, certain communities of Mennonites, and OgBB don't adhere to these rules. Why?? My pastor said it was because the passage wasn't to be taken literally...that it was for women on New Testament time. But then, why doesn't the same thing apply to homosexuality? I just wondered why we Christians were so rigid on some points, but completely don't follow the bible's teachings on other points? I researched more and found out that Christians in all different time periods (like many of the New Testament books were written hundreds if years after Jesus died) just co-opted existing societal rules and then said they were Christian. And later the Catholic Church continued to take pagan holidays and make them christiany. This is how we have Christmas (winter solstice).

The final nails in the coffin were seeing my sweet nephew grow up. The kid was gay (or had gender identity issues maybe) from the day he came into this world and it was obvious for all of us to see. I couldn't reconcile how people could still say it was a choice. And then it was the winter Israel invaded Lebanon and my hometown church put on their church billboard: " Israel, god is with you." And that's when I knew that the Christianity of today is a political tool more than anything else. I know this sounds cynical, but at this point in the US, I feel like biblical teachings are twisted to suit political agendas and to exploit people's fears of the unknown, the "other" and change.

We're all afraid of death and what happens after (I am too) and I think it's natural that we've created a narrative that gives it all meaning. It makes our passage through this world less scary, and for that reason I'm not against other people being a religious as they want. If it gives someone comfort, then it's great.

Lately (well the past 10 years or so) I've been learning more about eastern religions and while I still don't 100% buy it, I find it more logical--or maybe more palatable--for me.

@littlejoy: Yeah, I guess I was just looking for some perspective from others about why the behavior of others turned them into a non-believer rather than just turning them off of that particular church/religion. Hoping to understand a bit better since many commented on behavior of others being a turning point for them, though I'm assuming generally it's more complicated than that.

Hmm this is a tough question. I grew up going to church and Sunday school every week, and my dad is a minister, but I don't think I ever really felt invested in it or like a "believer." I went through all the motions, and never actually admitted to myself I didn't believe until later in life, but I think deep down I never REALLY did. I guess I've always been a pretty rational person and someone who likes proof. I realize the point of faith is to believe despite a lack of real or tangible proof... I think I've just never really been able to get there. I do have a slight belief in the value of sending out positive energy, but not in any kind of higher power.

I was raised Jewish, and I guess I'm culturally Jewish in that we celebrate a few holidays, but I'm definitely agnostic. So much time sitting in synagogue for me was spent thinking, the higher power I could believe in wouldn't want people sitting in a building praying, but out in the world. It just wasn't meaningful to me. I do miss the community of my family's synagogue and appreciate a lot of Jewish philosophy. Unless you are very orthodox, most people are open minded and questioning is encouraged. It's just the structure and praying that I don't feel any connection to.
ETA: I have the same feelings as many people here about the "bad things happen to good people" thing. It really bothers me when people say they are "blessed" to have something good happen like a pregnancy or a sick person recovering. I think, what about that person whose husband died, does that mean you think God doesn't care about them?

My parents are not religious and didn't force any believes on us, although they are very liberal over all. As a kid I went to Sunday school with my friend because I thought it was fun. My parents didn't promote it or discourage it, they just let me find my way. As a teenager and in my 20's I was not into religion at all (although did attend a few Quaker meetings) and was even pretty judgmental of people who I concerned very religious.

Whats funny is now that I am in my mid-30's I am more interested in religion and feel that I have more respect for people with strong religious beliefs. I am even thinking of joining the Unitarian congregation in my new town (we are about to move to a new state).

@hummusgirl: you might want to look into humanist Judaism. The idea is to celebrate the history and culture while leaving the idea of God out of it. Basically, be a good person, be thankful for all the good that people can do, and grateful for nature.

@wonderstruck: I believe I kind of touched on it briefly in my comment, but maybe just not very clearly? Anyway, I just wanted to address your last paragraph. It was definitely an evolution of things for me. Peoples behaviour definitely did turn me off of Christianity/Catholicism. Although the main thing I eventually realized was that I just didn't believe in anything I was being taught, none of it made sense. Having people treat me terribly only made me question things more and do more research, which only confirmed my own personal thoughts on the matter!

I was raised in a very devout evangelical/ born again household. My grandparents were pastors/ missionaries, and our household revolved a lot around our beliefs. When I was 14 I chose to follow 100% and was very committed. I attended church and youth events multiple times a week, regularly prayed and read my bible, went to any conference I could go to and transferred to Christian school.

In my teens I decided to be a long term missionary. This is why I initially chose teaching - it is a useful skill for missions (thankfully I still love education!) This conviction stayed strong until my early mid-20s, and between age 18 and 24 I went on 4 missions trips to Asia and the Middle East in preparation.

When I was about 23 was when the walls of my carefully constructed faith began to crumble. I went on an around the world trip/working holiday, and had discussions that exposed me to ideas I hadn't been previously exposed to.

At the same time, I started to struggle with doctrines and beliefs I had been taught when they contradicted what I deep down believed, eg I had no issue with gay people, and was interested in other faiths without seeing them as wrong or demonic. I struggled for a long time over these things.

When I got home, I started to notice things I hadn't before. I saw how judgmental so many Christians were and this made me question the foundation of faith. Not that a person being judgmental discredits a faith, but that these people were the ones going to heaven and some of the most awesome, loving, most generous people I knew were going to hell because they didn't believe, especially when I realized that a lot of the reasons people were put off were because of Christian judgment. This just seemed so wrong.

Also, the more I studied science, the harder it was for me to believe creationism. I tried. I really, really tried, but I just couldn't.

I also was working on some graduate theology in training to be a missionary. The deeper in I got, the more it seemed senseless. I could argue it well, but it seemed futile.

When I was 24, I moved to Japan to each English. It was when I arrived and I was no longer living in a Christian bubble that it really crumbled. I realized it would be dishonest to keep trying so hard to believe when I knew deep down I didn't. When something is part of your identity so strongly, it is hard to let go. Letting go of my faith was the hardest decision of my life.

I don't hold any animosity toward Christianity anymore, I just don't believe. I identify more as agnostic. Also, DH was raised Mormon but is now a non believer - I think his journey was a lot more organic, just realizing he didn't believe the older he got.

Sorry. Bit of an essay

@wonderstruck: I am a practicing Catholic but I very much relate to your post. I think belief isn't really something you can force, like how you can't will your self to fall in love with someone or understand Calculus. So some days I practice with more doubts than belief and some days vice versa. Buy I've come to accept that.

@Torchwood: That would be awesome! Let me know if it's there and if it is I'll post my mailing info on your wall. Thank you!!

@Torchwood: @lawbee11: @Mrs. Twine: I was already a pretty firm agnostic when I read The God Delusion, and while I wouldn't say it immediately moved me along the scale to full-fledged atheism, it definitely made me think. A lot. And eventually, I did keep drifting further and further away from thinking "I don't know and I don't really care if a god exists" to "the idea of a god is just too far-fetched and illogical for me to give any credence." So I guess it was a turning point for me, too, but in a much more organic way. It's a great book.

@hummusgirl: totally agree. For me, Judaism is more of a culture than a religion.

@hummusgirl: @hilsy85: My DH is an atheist Jew

@TemperanceBrennan: Yes, that would be great! My DH has actually read it and has it on his Kindle so I'm going to start reading it tonight.

I was born Catholic and skeptical like @wonderstruck: and @jedeve: and held tight to the struggle to believe until my early 20s. Sexuality was the main point of division - I believed the Church teaching but got so down on myself because I could not live up to it. Weekly confession for unchaste behavior (with my boyfriend) wore me down and when we broke up I decided I could live more happily without God, too.

I felt so freed up to spend my time/energy/passion on the here and now rather than bothering with the unseen. But over time I became more and more inwardly hostile toward religion and religious people, felt superiorly enlightened in my atheism, etc, and decided that wasn't working, either, but I still wasn't down with God, so I stayed in unsatisfying limbo for a few years.

Until I went through a serious crisis in a romantic relationship that secular therapy wouldn't help and in our desperation we tried prayer, after which a series of incredible things happened that made me somewhat faithful again. Now I'm back to the Catholic church but with looser expectations of myself and others than I had before. It's working for now. Hypocrisy doesn't bother me. I'm pretty sure we're all "hypocrites," failing often to live up to our own ideals. That's humanity. From my experience there's room for that in religion. That may even be the whole point!

@runnerd: Just wanted to applaud your bravery in working through these super hard questions!