-
Well here I am again - officially PUPO until Jan 15 when I plan to POAS. Transferred a single PGS normal embryo. Stick baby stick. Beta on 1/17.
-
@foodiebee: Thanks girl!
@yellowbeach: Beautiful. All the positive vibes!
-
@Mrs Lavender: @yellowbeach:
-
@yellowbeach: what a beautiful embryo!!
-
Ok experienced IVF ladies...
If this FET#4 doesn’t work, I’ll statistically be in like the 1.4% that don’t get pregnant with PGS normal embryos. We still have two left, but before I burn though those, I’m wondering if I should get a second opinion or something. I love our RE, he gave us DD after all, but I’m at wits end with why these frozen transfers aren’t working. What other variables are there? I’m “recurrent implantation failure” despite responding exactly as expected to meds and having beautiful PGS normal embryos. Variables that have changed from fresh cycle to these last 4 frozen cycles:
- fresh vs frozen
- different embryology lab
- I’m 2 yrs olderThoughts? Ideas? Hypotheses? 🧠
ETA: sorry to sound pessimistic since I’m only 1dp5dt but I’ve found that what’s happened is I get a negative and then we just naturally roll into the same routine for the next transfer without time to step back and really evaluate. Trying to do some of that now and just be prepared.
-
@yellowbeach: oof I really feel your pain mama....I was in your same place when we were trying for DD2 (18 months now!!). We were about to move across the country and we had just survived 2 BFNs with PGS-tested embryos. Still had 5 left in the freezer. Honestly, my plan B was to just keep trying. I looked into REs in our new state (CA) and talked to our DC-based RE about how to transfer embryos across the country. I think that's all you can do. Just keep trying. I guess it can't hurt to get a second opinion, but if all your stats (E2, P4, lining, etc.) look good there's just something that is not clicking. So I don't have any brilliant ideas, just some commiseration and support. You got this!
-
@yellowbeach: i would look into endometrial biopsy tests, even though you've have a successful pregnancy, maybe something has changed. There's ERA to see if you need a day or two more or less of progesterone. Yale EFT, etegrity, there are others i can't think of right now, that check the lining on a more cellular level to make sure it's capable of implantation and sustaining the embryo. There's alot more to the lining than if it's thin enough. I've read of many success stories, mine included, where the tests showed abnormal results, and a course of lupron depot is done to treat it, and the following fet is successful.
-
@yellowbeach: I was also going to suggest an ERA.
This Beat Infertility podcast is very informative. An ERA biopsy is also mentioned in the podcast. https://beatinfertility.co/why-pgs-normal-embryos-fail/
-
Transfer went smooth yesterday! We transferred a PGS normal 5BC embryo.
Beta isn’t until January 24th, I’m not sure when I’ll POAS. Starting to analyze every feel... 
-
@Mrs Lavender: wow look
at that beautiful embie! 🥚
-
@yellowbeach: lol! Noo, it's way too early girl! I found a unopened pack of cheapies yesterday... so tempting to just go crazy.
-
@Mrs Lavender: I may have bought two packs of FRER at Target
-
@yellowbeach: Crossing my fingers that will be the last box you’ll have to buy! Stick baby!🤞
-
So my RE randomly called me today while I was at work. We had scheduled an appointment for Tuesday next week to sit down and discuss testing, changes etc that we can try since we've had 4 failed FETs now. My diagnosis is "Recurrent Implantation Failure (RIF)." I'm still going for my beta tomorrow morning but tests at home are negative, so I expect it will be, too.
He wants to try a few things.
1) Hysteroscopy. Since we had DD in 2016, I had another pregnancy and loss ending in D&E. We did a saline sonogram looking for scar tissue, adhesions, etc but that was normal. Hysteroscopy is the definitive test to look and make sure everything with my lining is actually ok and not messed up from the D&E. We will do that probably in the next 2 weeks. Scheduler is calling me tomorrow.
2) Autoimmune/lab testing. He's ordered labs to test for things like antiphospholipid antibody, etc to look for diseases that might create inflammation or coagulation issues that prevent implantation. I'll get those drawn tomorrow with my beta.
3) Another egg retrieval ("round") of IVF. Our embryos, while PGS normal, were frozen, thawed, biopsied, refrozen and then thawed yet again for transfer. While they are genetically normal, they are less strong, less hearty bc of all of that. So even though they survived thaw and became metabolically active again, they could be too weak to implant and grow. That might explain why 4 normal embryos have all failed.
We would to the 2nd retrieval after the hysteroscopy, but before transferring the last 2 embryos we have. Any new embryos would be biopsied while fresh and immediately frozen, then the biopsy samples sent for PGS testing (2 weeks) . In that wait period we could potentially try another FET with our remaining 2 embryos, and if that failed, then start trying transfers with the more recent embryos.
The thought of another retrieval is disappointing, but something I had been bracing myself for. The bright side is that my insurance will cover the retrieval, just not the PGS testing. So we will pay $23K less than our last retrieval.
DH is a bit too frustrated and taxed by all of this to think straight, so I haven't been able to get real opinions from him yet.
While this feels like a setback, I'd rather do this now than in 2-3 months after 2 more failed FETs.
-
@yellowbeach: I'm so incredibly sorry that this transfer didn't work out for you. I think your doctors suggestions are all good steps in the right direction to figure out what may be going wrong. Keep us updated on your bloodwork and hysteroscopy. The fact that your insurance will cover the IVF procedure is amazing! Hang in there. XO
-
@Mrs Lavender: Thanks. Just keep swimming, right? Have you tested at home yet? Been thinking of you.
-
@yellowbeach: Not yet. The thought of testing makes my stomach hurt. The plan is to test Sunday morning. I'll be 10dpt5dt.
-
@Mrs Lavender: good luck
-
@yellowbeach: It’s a BFN. I’m going to push for an ERA and possibly some other testing before our next transfer. I’m more mad than upset and keep thinking if this is ever going to work. I’m sure I’ll break down later. Beta is Thursday but I’m going to see if I can come in Tuesday to keep it moving.
-
@Mrs Lavender: oh no!
-
Just saw these updates. @yellowbeach: Your dedication has me in awe.
I know a plan of action must feel good at this point too. @Mrs Lavender: So so so so so bummed to hear this news.
-
@foodiebee: I know - bad news all around this month. We need more IVFers if nothing else to increase the odds of success and lift up the board!
-
@yellowbeach: @foodiebee: Thanks girls. I got my beta moved to tomorrow. I don't want to be on PIO any longer than I have to. I'll keep you all posted on what my RE suggests.
-
@Mrs Lavender: I felt the same way about the PIO... stabbing yourself when you know in your heart this round didn't work... it's hard to do. But I guess there are those rare cases where betas don't turn positive until later, so the REs tell you to continue until beta. Seems like you've found a good compromise of moving up the beta.
-
@yellowbeach: Your plan sounds great but I'm confused/a little worried that it sounds like you want to go forward with a new retrieval before trying an FET with the last 2 frozen embryos. Trust me, I can so sympathize with the awful, excruciating amount of waiting and waiting when you are SO ready to be pregnant and move on with life. But I worry that you're taking on too much physically and emotionally by cramming everything in. Again, I know you want move forward as fast as possible but it's a lot to take on on top of the disappointment you've faced the last several months. Maybe I misunderstood your plan so please forgive me if that is the case.
Regardless though i'm sending you so many hugs and love and support throughout this. The not knowing part and feeling like your body is failing you is just the worst. We are all here for you and cheering you on every step of the way! You are so strong! -
@Mrs Lavender: so sorry to hear this news. definitely hoping your beta has better results but if not, so many hugs to you and sending you strength for next steps.
-
@Mrs. Pajamas: Yeah it's actually our RE that is worried that this entire batch of embryos from our first (and only) retrieval was weakened/damaged by the extra freeze/thaw. I don't get the sense he has much hope for success with our remaining two frozens. We will go ahead and transfer at least one, maybe both while the new batch goes off for PGS testing, but yes, we need to roll pretty much right along with this stuff for a multitude of reasons... my age, my work schedule, my insurance status... all of those get worse if we wait even just 3-6 months. It's not ideal, but none of this is. Hysteroscopy is scheduled for tomorrow.
-
@yellowbeach: Good luck today mama! let us know if you get any answers. For me, just going through the motions of all the procedures on the way to conceiving made me feel like I was doing SOMETHING so I hope you get that same small satisfaction in what is otherwise such a long, hard road. Hugs!
-
@Mrs Lavender: @yellowbeach: Thinking of you both and hoping you've gotten some answers.
-
@Mrs. Pajamas @FoodieBee: Thanks for the positive thoughts. Procedure was pretty straight forward. Minimal cramping thanks to good drugs. I am a little fuzzy on the exact details of what they found/did because I was still drugged up after and they discussed it with my mom who is not at all medical. I should have had my RE call DH after (he was at work, but is an MD, too). I do know that they found and fixed something. My mom said they used the word "adhesion." I've sent a message to my doctor for some clarification. I'm not sure if what they found was significant enough that they will recommend trying another FET with our remaining two embryos, or if they still think proceeding with another retrieval is best. Should know more today.
-
Thanks, girls. Beta confirmed the negative.
I'm waiting for AF and in the meantime trying to decide what to do. Spoke with my RE and we have testing options but ultimately thinks we should try one more transfer before going down that route - ERA, autoimmune bloodwork, hysteroscopy. That my lining/levels looked great and sometimes it takes more than one transfer, even with a pgs normal embryo - which I understand and agree.
If I decided to move forward with the transfer the only change we would make is adding low dose aspirin and possibly an endo scratch. I emailed her yesterday about the endo scratch, still waiting to hear her thoughts on that. If our second transfer fails we will be doing all testing.
We have 4 pgs normal embryos left and 7 not tested. The 7 that are not tested are not the greatest quality but our embryologist says they still have a chance or they would not of froze them. They are a mix of day 6/7 BCs and CCs.
DH and I keep going back and fourth on what to do. I hate this. Am I missing anything to ask my RE about? Anyone have an endo scratch done before?
-
@yellowbeach: So glad to hear your procedure went well. I hope whatever they cleaned up in there is the key to getting you pregnant! Keep us posted.
-
@Mrs Lavender: Sorry to hear about the negative beta
- I think having PGC normal embryos gives you a little more hope for success that first try since statistically they do better. But yes, there is that 30%, too. Sounds like you have a good plan to roll into your next FET. We never wanted to try the same thing more than twice and pushed for a change to protocol or more testing after failures 2 and 4. I'm glad we have. Never did the endo scratch and ERA my Dr. is very much against and offered multiple other things to try instead that are evidence based and make sense in our situation. AFM, my RE nurse wrote back and clarified that while he did see and remove an adhesion, it was small and probably not the cause of our issues, although certainly not helping. We are still going to move forward with a 2nd retrieval cycle after this one. We'll transfer at least one of our remaining 2 embryos from "the bad batch" during that cycle since the new ones we get will be awaiting PGS testing and results. I'm leaning towards two this time for the first time ever. I feel like that last little embie, the runt of the litter, deserves a chance to join our family. And sometimes it's the underdog that proves strongest.
-
@Mrs Lavender: so sorry for your negative result
Jumping back in this thread to hopefully give you some reassurance about the endo scratch. I had one before all of my FET (4 in total) and none of them were painful or even uncomfortable for me. Honestly, the most uncomfortable part was myfull bladder! I hope your second try proves successful with the addition of those couple thing(s)!
-
@yellowbeach: I never realized how controversial the ERA test is until I started really researching it. My RE has actually had a lot of success with the test. It would be nice to have more hard data though! I have not found any studies completed. How are you feeling with your next move? I read in one of the threads you are going on vacation soon. Will you be stimming while you are away?
@rousseae: Thanks for your support. I heard back from my RE regarding the endo scratch via email. I think I need to push for another response. She basically said if I wanted to do that, she suggests I should have a hysterscopy and she will do the scratch then. I just had one of those 16 months ago and my SHG this past October showed no red flags. We paid 2k OOP for that procedure. It just seems like over kill at this point and I'm not feeling it.
-
AF showed up last night. I need to message my coordinator and tell her what I'd like to do. I'm really at a loss and can't make up my mind RE: testing or another transfer. I'm feeling pretty defeated and having lots of negative thoughts that this won't ever work. That I'm not ever going to have a successful pregnancy or it's going to be an even longer road to get there. DH wants to try again before doing additional tests. I was on board but now I'm not so sure. I also don't want to go into this transfer with a negative attitude already thinking it won't work. This just sucks.
-
@Mrs Lavender: hugs mama I know we can all relate the anxiety and not knowing what is the "right" thing to do. So much of RE science is trial and error and that sucks. I'm a control freak and infertility really pushed me to the very edge of everything. It was by far the toughest experience of my life. so just wanted to say I feel your pain. Talk to DH and trust your gut. You will make the right decision and we will be here for you every step of the way!!
-
@Mrs Lavender: I get the negative attitude. My hardest failure of ours was IUI #2. It reallllly set me back emotionally. I went into every procedure after that (at least two more IUIs, one of which was cancelled halfway through and then IVF) without a shred of hope. With IVF, I considered that we were checking a box and after it failed, we'd be able to move on. Infertility made me feel like a failure, when before that, I was a pretty damn hard worker who normally accomplished what I set out to do. I wasn't used to trying so hard at something and it not working out. Wow what a lesson to learn in a very emotional way.
Anyway, I don't think this is helping, but what I'm trying to say is, it's a journey. Hope might be hard to come by, but maybe try to inhabit the space where you're not going to count yourself out without trying, no matter what the outcome. (Don't fail yourself!) I vote you try another transfer, and if that fails, then you look into some other tests. After everything we went through, I just honestly believe a certain amount of it is straight luck of the draw. Not luck luck, per se, just right place, right time. As the phrase goes, success is when preparation meets opportunity. (Or something like that.
) Gosh knows you're prepared. You're just waiting for the right moment to meet it. -
@foodiebee : yes to all of this. there is so much luck involved at the end of the day and it sucks for all of us hard working control freaks. The absolute worst. But at the end of your journey when you are holding your LO you will absolutely say it was worth all the time and tears. Guaranteed. Just keep trucking and check in with us anytime for commiseration. @Mrs Lavender:
-
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, ladies!
@foodiebee: That's exactly what we decided to do. I started BC yesterday and we have a tentative transfer for mid March. Overall I feel ok with our decision. What's hard for me is I am a problem solver, always looking for the correct answer or most efficient way to do something. But like you said: I just honestly believe a certain amount of it is straight luck of the draw. Not luck luck, per se, just right place, right time. Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone in my feelings.
@Mrs. Pajamas: Yes, to all of this. Is there a "right" thing to do? I'm not so sure, but I am always looking for it! lol Ugh. Also, my gut keeps telling me something else is wrong. If it were up to me, I'd do all the testing imaginable, then compile all the results, and come up with a game plan. I realize this is not realistic. I'm hoping I just need to try again.
) Gosh knows you're prepared. You're just waiting for the right moment to meet it. 
- Google Plus
- Stumbleupon
- Twitter
- Facebook
- Pinterest
- Favorite0
2514 comments