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Marissa Mayer Gives Birth - more backlash RE: maternity plans...

  1. DenverMom

    cherry / 196 posts

    I personally agree with @Adira.

    Marissa is not just a normal mom who decided to go back to work 2 weeks after giving birth. As a public figure, she is setting an example, which does matter and it impacts things (like policies and employers' views) well beyond her. I think that her announcement could have been better planned and executed.

    As to whether she should have forced herself to stay on maternity leave though she was ready to be back, I think many mothers continue to work during maternity leave (I personally was working 1-3 hours almost every day). So there was no reason to publicly come out and say "I'm back." I think the PR surrounding the announcement was handled very badly.

  2. Truth Bombs

    grapefruit / 4321 posts

    Very few women have such high profile positions when they are still of childbearing age. Marissa is already an incredible example of a young woman who has managed to be wildly successful in a male dominated field. I don't think it's also her job to be an example of representing what OTHER women may want for their maternity leave. She's just one person, she shouldn't be expected to represent every working mother in the country.

  3. BandDmommy

    pomelo / 5660 posts

    @Truth Bombs: exactly!

  4. Mrs D

    grapefruit / 4545 posts

    @Truth Bombs: 100%

  5. LuLu Mom

    GOLD / wonderful olive / 19030 posts

    @Mrs D: I feel like if the roles were reversed and it was Marrissa taking the 2 months instead, I would assume the same thing, that she was checking emails and I wouldn't think any different of the situation?

  6. BandDmommy

    pomelo / 5660 posts

    @LuLu Mom: My guess is both are checking emails. With email on your phone, who doesn't check email all the time?

  7. Mrs D

    grapefruit / 4545 posts

    @LuLu Mom: she would certainly not be getting praise for taking 2 months leave...since it is still believe the 12 weeks she is entitled to. Therefore she is still not satisfying the desire for her to advocate for better maternity leave? Plus - 1) it would not have made news so no one would know she took 2 months and it would do nothing to further the cause for working moms wanting better leave and 2) the minute she started slipping back into work she would be scrutinized for it I am sure.

  8. Maysprout

    grapefruit / 4800 posts

    As a CEO I wouldn't be surprised if she's fielding phone calls and emails from her hospital room. But she should be worried about the tone she is setting and I think the backlash is bc the statement is a passive aggressive stab at maternity leave. I worked for a woman who took 2 weeks maternity leave and it was miserable. She made much more direct statements about how her lack of safety concerns during pregnancy and short maternity leave should be emulated. It was a big reason I quit while pregnant. I knew there was going to be no room to figure out how to be a mom and an employee bc the job was too important and it wasn't fair to others to put things off just bc I want to be around baby.

  9. Mrs D

    grapefruit / 4545 posts

    @Maysprout: I work in a very male dominant field (finance) in a male dominant industry (automotive) and I guess I am fortunate as I have never felt guilty for taking 12 weeks leave. We have women here who have taken up to 4 mos off and others who choose to come back at 8 weeks. I guess I just havent ever felt the pressure to do what others do so long as I am within my rights...

  10. Truth Bombs

    grapefruit / 4321 posts

    Also. We are all so worried that other upper management teams and policy makers will use her as an example to encourage all women to take shortened maternity leave. It seems to me it's pretty damn sexist to blame her for that rather than blaming the policy makers for not recognizing that different working mothers need/want different things.

  11. hony bologna

    cherry / 126 posts

    My husband and I work in tech in Silicon Valley and the scene in general is very young, single male-centric and not family-friendly at all. I felt very uncomfortable trying to go on FMLA when I got hyperemesis during my pregnancy and eventually ended up quitting. There are some companies that have recently improved their policies, but these are the behemoths and most others haven't changed a thing. I totally respect MM's right to do whatever she wishes, but she is one of the very few powerful women in tech and all eyes are on her. That pressure and scrutiny are just what come with the territory when you're a high-profile person. I wish she'd taken that responsibility seriously and acknowledged the anomalousness of her situation; I feel even less safe now taking the full amount of time I'm allowed to take off. I agree that those comments about her going back at two weeks are terrible though. :o(

    For me, at least, this scrutiny doesn't just apply to women. After my husband and I heard about how much leave Mark Zuckerberg was taking, we both agreed how we'd now feel better about my husband taking more time off if/when we have another baby.

  12. Adira

    wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts

    @Truth Bombs: I guess I disagree? I think as a member of a minority group, if you a high profile public figure, you have a responsibility to be supportive of other members of your minority group. If Marissa really does support working women taking longer maternity leaves, she should state that and make that clear so there's no question. Instead, we've just gotten her stance about what she's doing (and being very nonchalant about it too).

  13. Truth Bombs

    grapefruit / 4321 posts

    @Mrs D: I'm in finance too and mostly surrounded by dudes but I really don't give an F what others do. TN has 16 weeks of job protection and I'm taking every day of it. Really don't care if someone wants to judge my choice.

  14. Truth Bombs

    grapefruit / 4321 posts

    @Adira: maybe she doesn't support working mothers taking longer leaves. And it's not her responsibility to do so just because other people want her to. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

  15. Mrs D

    grapefruit / 4545 posts

    @Truth Bombs: right? I mean I guess I am confident enough in 1) my value to the company and 2) my knowledge of the rights I have to do what I am entitled to.

  16. Adira

    wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts

    In case people were curious, here's what Marissa said back in September:

    "Since my pregnancy has been healthy and uncomplicated and since this is a unique time in Yahoo’s transformation, I plan to approach the pregnancy and delivery as I did with my son three years ago, taking limited time away and working throughout."

    I think this wording sends the message: if you have a healthy, uncomplicated pregnancy and it's a busy time at work, you should take as short a maternity leave as possible.

  17. Adira

    wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts

    @Truth Bombs: Oh, I'm with you - I think maybe she DOESN'T support women (or men) taking longer maternity leaves. And it's my opinion that that SUCKS and I judge her for it.

  18. Mamasig

    pomegranate / 3565 posts

    I don't follow her or even know who she is. Has she had her twins yet? How does she even know she will be physically able to return to work in two weeks? I just couldn't imagine going back to work at 2 weeks. Physically I wasn't healed yet and all the swelling had just disappeared. I think it's easier to make your plans before you actually experience having kids.

  19. Maysprout

    grapefruit / 4800 posts

    @Mrs D: I worked for assholes who were eventually fired. But I was told expectations directly, there was no perceived pressure, there was direct pressure. Just bc something is illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen and it takes a long time to remedy.

  20. shabang

    apricot / 370 posts

    It seems hypocritical to say that we support a woman's right to choose whether to work outside of the home or stay at home and then a second later judge this woman for making a choice that apparently works for her, her career, and her family. Empowering women is about letting each woman make the choice that works best for her and her situation.

    I agree that more favorable leave policies would be beneficial for all families, but Marissa Mayer doesn't owe it to anyone to be an example to all moms.

  21. Adira

    wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts

    @Mamasig: She had the twins yesterday.

  22. Mrs D

    grapefruit / 4545 posts

    Interesting comment I just read in an article...apparently she has been an advocate for better leave...

    "In fact, Mayer has been sympathetic to the needs of her employees and she doubled Yahoo’s paid maternity leave from eight to sixteen weeks in 2012, even though she stuck to a two-week leave after giving birth to Macallister in 2012."

    So - she has been an advocate and is still being bashed for having her own personal desires to come back to work - which she is following.

  23. BandDmommy

    pomelo / 5660 posts

    @Shannon: exactly!

  24. Mamasig

    pomegranate / 3565 posts

    @Adira: still seems crazy to me! I was still a bleeding hormonal mess at 2 weeks. I just can't imagine going to work then.

  25. Adira

    wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts

    @Mrs D: She ALSO eliminated Yahoo's policy of telecommuting...

    ETA: Leaving to pick up the kids, so I'll catch back up on this conversation later.

  26. Mrs D

    grapefruit / 4545 posts

    @Adira: so now its not good enough that she expanded leave? Helping working moms who want longer leave?

    As a note: I have never had a good experience with telecommuting employees so I stay out of discussions about it because I am biased by my experiences.

  27. Truth Bombs

    grapefruit / 4321 posts

    @Shannon: agree completely

  28. Autumnmama79

    pear / 1703 posts

    It seems like the giant point thats being overlooked here is that she's NOT 'going back to work' in the traditional sense. As in leaving babies at home or in someones care, being away from them for hours at a time, etc, etc, etc. Someone mentioned she'll have a nursery and staff beside her office? Bahahahaha. Thats NOT 'going back to work'. So, she pops in the office for a couple hours a day while a wet nurse fawns over her newborns next door. Sounds super stressful and exactly like what most mothers go through when they 'return to work'. Its comparing apples to oranges I'm afraid.

  29. Kemma

    grapefruit / 4291 posts

    Can I just say how interesting to me it is that nobody has mentioned how taking such a short leave might effect her children? I'll probably get slammed for this but I absolutely think newborn babies belong with their parents and not with a team of nannies. It's such a cliche but they're only little for such a short period of time and you can never get that time back.

  30. Freckles

    honeydew / 7444 posts

    I haven't read a lot of the previous comments, but i think she's getting shit for nothing. She is a CEO and yes, executives will be held to a different standard whether they are male or female. I don't expect her to be an example or lead the way for leaves. I also doubt that Zuckerberg is competely disconnecting while on leave so what example does he set for men who go on leave then - that they can take a leave as long as they are still accessible to their employer?

    Honestly, the problem with leave policies in the US is that there are no government mandated leave policies. Heaven forbid THAT happen, right? That's the only way it's going to happen. It's just like how people take less vacation in companies with unlimited vacation policies. Canada has mat/pat leave BUT women are typically the ones who take most of the leave. A lot of men STILL don't take parental leave. Before DH got tenure, he didn't take official time off for both of our kids because it would look poorly on him. His department was already stretched thin because of sabbaticals and if he took official leave, then someone would have to cover him for his classes and students. Instead, he just went to the office a few times a week but was mainly at home with me for 1-2 months.

  31. Mrs D

    grapefruit / 4545 posts

    @Freckles: We do have FMLA that covers us for 12 weeks...it protects your job (or similar) for when you return. You are technically not supposed to work while you are on short term disability - I think its a part of the policy.

    i agree - its not fair to make her the poster child as she is not your "average working mother".

    @Kemma: Is it best for a baby to be home with a mom who is having depression over being stuck at home? It isnt a one size fits all situation. For some babies - they may be better if their mom returns to work. Plus - I just dont buy into the criticality of those early weeks for the bonding - but thats just my own personal opinion.

    I wouldnt trade my early weeks with DD for anything - but I dont think its an absolute must to have a healthy kid!

  32. Maysprout

    grapefruit / 4800 posts

    @Freckles: I think your husbands situation is part of the problem. It's hard to keep women in high powered positions when the expectation is that they won't take family leave. It's great he could have a more relaxed schedule for a couple months and had that sort of flexibility. But what if he was the one giving birth, that pressure to come back would still be there.

  33. pinkcupcake

    cantaloupe / 6751 posts

    @Mrs D: I'm not sure why you seem to have such an issue with Zuckerberg saying he is planning on taking off 2 months. You're making all these speculations about what he is publicly stating versus what he may actually be doing. Not sure what the point is. Is it that horrid that he's supportive of focusing on his new child for 2 months? I'm pretty sure this guy is smart enough to have a plan in place to make sure FB isn't gonna explode while he's checking out (also, pretty sure the BOD wouldn't allow him to do so without a rock solid plan in place).

    While 2 weeks personally would not be anywhere near enough for me, kudos to this woman for making it worth. She's fortunate enough to have the money to make this happen.

    We all have different priorities. *Shrug*

  34. Dagny

    apricot / 461 posts

    To add to the comments about her eliminating the option to telecommute - how can she possibly think it is fair to have a nursery with nannies at her office and not allow parents to telecommute to get a somewhat similar benefit while working. That is totally hypocritical. I mean, they are not exactly the same thing of course, but that really rubs me the wrong way.

  35. lepamplemousse

    cherry / 137 posts

    @Shannon: I completely agree!

    @pinkcupcake: To Mrs. D's point, it's highly unlikely that any CEO (male or female) would actually completely disconnect which is why she had brought him up.

    I think we should all keep in mind that MZ and MM are in very different positions. While they are both CEOs, MZ was the founder of Facebook and has been in that position much longer. MM started at Yahoo maybe 3 years ago? So she has to prove herself as a new CEO and also turn around a declining company. While she is in a prominent position, as Yahoo's CEO her job isn't to advocate longer US maternity leave policies, it's to ensure stockholders have a return on their investment. And stockholders want to know that their CEO is working.

    I'm disappointed to hear so much harsh criticism about MM for doing what is best for herself and her situation. Women should be supporting each other for whatever their decision is.

  36. lepamplemousse

    cherry / 137 posts

    @Dagny: She had eliminated telecommuting because they had discovered that employees who worked from home were much less productive. It's not to say that someone could never work from home but those who never showed up to the office often times abused the telecommuting benefit.

    The nursery next to her office seems like more of a short term thing so she could return to work so soon. I doubt it will be longterm.

  37. 2littlepumpkins

    grapefruit / 4455 posts

    @Kemma: I think ideally yeah a mom can stay home with baby or babies and breastfeed and rest and all of that. But everyone's situation is different so the bigger picture doesn't mean she won't bond or recover or whatever. I can't see myself working two weeks after having a baby but it's not really my place to say she can't or shouldn't. As long as they are with responsive caregivers (which I'm sure they will be) I think they'll be ok.

  38. Dagny

    apricot / 461 posts

    @lepamplemousse: that is true, it is short-term, but she is still benefitting from having a more flexible work environment for her family while others at Yahoo no longer have that option in general.

  39. gingerbebe

    cantaloupe / 6131 posts

    I think as CEO her responsibilities to her company, her thousands of employees, and shareholders is much more important to her than an employer may be to the average employee. The company is shaky and going through huge change as they stake out their future and I don't think any CEO would disconnect for 12 weeks, whether it was a new mother for a baby or a male CEO recovering from a kidney transplant. That's just the job she signed up for. And frankly it's the culture of the industry she works in overall.

  40. Foodnerd81

    wonderful cherry / 21504 posts

    No one has ever mentioned what kind of leave her husband is taking.

    I see both sides- I can see how it does set a precedent that women don't need to take that much time to bond. She could make more of the fact that she has a host of people making it work for her. She is in a really unique position as such a public figure.

    But she didn't ask to be a spokesperson for all working women. She happens to be a woman who is in a very public role, but it's mostly so public because she is such a high powered woman. Who says she has to be a spokesperson for all working moms? No bats an eye if a male CEO is taking calls in the delivery room (except maybe his wife).

    Personally the idea of trying to do anything 2 weeks after birth is laughable, but I don't have the help she does! And I'm making assumptions here, but I'm guessing breastfeeding isn't at the top of her priorities, which is true for tons of women. Whatever.

    Eta: when I say laughable, I mean for me. Not for everyone!

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