Hellobee Boards

@MrsTiz: oh FFS. I NEVER said you called him a thug. I says that word is used interchangeably with animal and I stand by that. It is. I also never said anything about YOUR thoughts on white people riots. I says PEOPLE don't care as much or talk about it as much. And they don't. Please read my statements more carefully. The only thing addressed to you is the fact that it's not surprising they would riot in their own neighborhood. But sure, this is all about you.

Edit: "Also, it's pretty funny how no one gets so outraged calling people animals when white people riot over stupid shit." <-- nowhere do I see "you" or mrstiz there. But I edited to clear up confusion.

@plantains:

@MrsSCB: lol all about me eh? Forgive me for thinking something you tagged me in had something to do with me, how silly of me. And responding to a comment that posted about me saying that those two words mean the same thing to you, I'm so sorry that I thoought you were referring to me and my use of the word animal, which you were. How could I possibly mix that up?! Jeez. Sorry.

@coopsmama: Oh man, that makes me so sad to hear (and honestly part of the reason homeschooling in general makes me nervous). The 3/5 Compromise is just the tip of the iceberg to fully understanding race relations *today* in this country. When people (not meaning you personally; it’s certainly not your fault you were not taught that!) don’t fully appreciate history and context, how can we really have truly fair and meaningful talks about racial inequality?

@Meltini: I read all your posts, and I was appalled. I didn't read between the lines, I just read what you wrote in response to people expressing concern over how to explain this issue to their children. I didn't put words in your mouth, I am telling you how your comments made me, a black woman feel and I am saying that a bit more empathy is needed.

@Meltini: from littlejoy:
"It's sad to me to think that black moms and dads must have conversations with their children about how to walk, talk, dress in public and near police. What a scary, scary world to live in."

your response:
"I personally hope they tell children not to attack police officers because it probably won't end well."

no, based on that exchange, my comment was not a huge leap. those are serious, life saving, heartbreaking conversations parents of black children need to have. your comment minimizes those conversations & makes it seem as though it's as simple as, 'don't hurt cops and you'll be fine.' that's not true, it's not that simple! i long for a society where that's all that needs to be said, but i don't live in that society. "Yes if we want to talk about race we all know that black males who act and dress a certain way are perceived negatively" enlighten me, how should a black male youth dress in an urban environment? if i have a son, i should dress him unlike his peers so that he's not a target for police? but what about at school, doesn't that alienate him from his peers? how do i teach him to love and respect those in his neighborhood while in the same breath telling him he can't dress or talk like them if he wants others to respect him? these conversations matter, these children matter, it's nothing that should be minimized.

@Meltini: those were my words, I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was commenting on the fact that your responses to what is a real issue for black parents in the US was incredibly callous. Additionally, your injection of 'or whatever you said' into your response with me indicates that you can't be bothered engaging in a discussion and are only interested in being flip on an issue that is actually deeply and emotionally painful. You are only underscoring my initial observation that some more empathy would go a long way.

Thank you for acknowledging that my experiences might have been less than pleasant, I really do appreciate it.

@lizzywiz: I guess this is one of those threads where it becomes evident that we've all come from different backgrounds and have had different experiences that have influenced our opinions!

@lizzywiz: I feel like this thread has been pretty positive. Most interactions are working towards a point of understanding. Of course, there are always going to be tangents and points taken out of context when delivered in an online forum.

I don't think everyone needs to agree for a conversation to be meaningful. I appreciate this conversation, and I appreciate being a part of a community that can have talks like these.

here's the national bar association's response @mrsjazz: mentioned for those who haven't read it and are interested
http://us7.campaign-archive1.com/?u=b493e6c4d31beda32fdaf8e2d&id=73514e334b

These conversations are really hard to have but they are necessary. A little mindfulness and tact goes a long way.

@littlejoy: Oh, I agree that the thread is a excellent conversation! I'm just saying that those tangents and flashpoints happen in the IRL discussions, too, and it can be hard to navigate without any fallout.

This interesting article just popped up: "...But I'm raising my black son with my black husband, who also happens to be a police officer in Washington."
http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/25/opinion/simmons-ferguson-grand-jury-complicated/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

@NeekieRose: Professionals can be objective. That's like the black Ferguson residents saying the white prosecutor can not objectively do his job because his dad was murdered by a black man.

@mrsjazz: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/animal?s=t
The way I was using "animal" is best defined by #'s 4 and 5 from there.

Animals tear things up when they don't know how to deal with their emotions. They tear down blinds when their owners leave, they shred couch pillows just because. People flip over police cars when their team wins the superbowl. They burn down buildings when they don't feel justice was served. They vandalise and steal just because. Those behaviors would cause me to say "they're behaving like animals" no matter the race of the offender. I don't think I've ever heard African American's being referred to as animals and *I* certainly didn't mean it that way. I know you weren't being snarky so I'm going to respond to you. You're right about having empathy, but people also need to be more hesitant to accuse someone of saying something or being something they aren't or never gave any reason to be accused of it which I'm seeing a lot in this thread.

@mrsjazz: "Can we talk about how people on this thread have talked about how the grand jury has spoken and oh we need to trust them...but statistically a Black man and white man could be arrested and tried for the same crime and the Black man will receive a harsher punishment?"

I don't feel like it is about trusting them or not trusting them. There is legal precedent that gives police officers tons of leeway in use of deadly force/self-defense. Like I said a couple pages ago, doesn't mean that the law doesn't need to be changed, but as it stands now (from my understanding) the jury couldn't have indicted him. And supposedly this is a common problem in police use of force cases.
Of course, people question whether the prosecutor gave the jury all of the pertinent evidence...

I thought this thread was really informative. There's been a lot of respectful, engaging comments about topics I haven't considered in regards to this case (grand jury process, etc) and about the state of race in our country (discussions about the "right" way to dress and talk around officers). Every comment serves to further my belief that the real issues surrounding this case are so complex and run so deep that the only way to progress is through lots of genuine discussions with a mind open to different ideas.

@MrsTiz: "There is no point in this thread. I'm surprised it's still open. No one can have a point if it's not the one that supports the victim." Well, I think this thread clearly holds value to lots of people, who are discussing some interesting ideas. Just because it doesn't hold value to you doesn't mean it should have been closed or dried up by now. Also, it's very clear that you *do* have a point. Maybe people would have been more open to discussing it if you hadn't used such harsh words and sarcastic tone ("pathetic" "animals" "are you kidding me?!" "surprise surprise!" Etc).

@yoursilverlining: You are absolutely right - where there is a lack of true knowledge, meaningful conversation and true change cannot happen. I don't think I'm the only one in this boat in this country, either, and probably not just because of homeschooling as I'm sure there are others out there who went to public school who didn't get a lot of information regarding racial issues. Believe me, I will be doing more reading about that compromise when I have time. (Btw, I was homeschooled because I grew up in an area where *I* as a white person would have been the racial minority, which is so fascinating to me in light of so much discussed in this thread.)

@TemperanceBrennan: Very well put. I have been silently following along. I haven't had much to say but I am learning A LOT. This is important stuff.

@coopsmama: Oh, you’re definitely not the only one!! One of the courses my husband teaches is The Politics of Race & Ethnicity and some of the responses/interpretations he’s gotten on exams about the 3/5 Compromise (and other things) are well....surprising, and show a lack of understanding of pretty basic American racial history (and this is an upper-level college course, so arguably, they should know better).

When I was in middle school, the public school I attended was one where whites were the minority. It was a fantastic school, and experience, that's too bad you didn't get that chance!

My comment about homeschooling was more to your comment about your education being "ultra conservative"; if you have an agenda, it's easier to control if everything is under your rule. But, clearly from my husband's experience, it isn't like public/private school guarantee basic history lessons either!

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but I just read this statement from the National Bar Association that is interesting:

"The National Bar Association is questioning how the Grand Jury, considering the evidence before them, could reach the conclusion that Darren Wilson should not be indicted and tried for the shooting death of Michael Brown. National Bar Association President Pamela J. Meanes expresses her sincere disappointment with the outcome of the Grand Jury’s decision but has made it abundantly clear that the National Bar Association stands firm and will be calling on the U.S. Department of Justice to pursue federal charges against officer Darren Wilson. “We will not rest until Michael Brown and his family has justice” states Pamela Meanes, President of the National Bar Association.

President Meanes is requesting that the citizens of Ferguson, Missouri not allow this decision to cause an unnecessary uproar in the community that could lead to arrests, injuries or even deaths of innocent people. “I am asking for everyone to remain as calm as possible and to join in solidarity as we continue to support the family of Michael Brown and put our legal plan into full effect” says President Meanes “I feel the magnitude of the grand jury’s ruling as Ferguson, Missouri is only minutes from where I reside”, adds President Meanes.
Over the last couple of months, the National Bar Association has hosted Town Hall meetings informing attendees of their Fourth Amendment (Search & Seizure) constitutional rights, whether it is legal to record police activity, and how citizens should behave/respond if and when they interface with police officers. “The death of Michael Brown was the last straw and the catalyst for addressing issues of inequality and racial bias in policing, the justice system, and violence against members of minority communities,” states Pamela Meanes.
The family of Michael Brown requested that District Attorney McCullough step aside and allow a special prosecutor be assigned to the investigation to give the community confidence that the grand jury would conduct a complete and thorough investigation into the tragic shooting death of 18 year old Michael Brown. The grand jury’s decision confirms the fear that many expressed months ago — that a fair and impartial investigation would not happen.

“The National Bar Association is adamant about our desire for transformative justice. While we are disappointed with the grand jury’s ruling, we are promoting peace on every street corner around the world. The only way to foster systemic change is to organize, educate, and mobilize. We are imploring everyone to fight against the injustice in Ferguson, Missouri and throughout the United States by banding together and working within the confines of the law,” states President Meanes."