Hellobee Boards

I saw this today and immediately told dh we aren't flying United anymore, esp in combination with the ridiculous leggings thing a couple weeks ago. But, we never fly United anyway (my hometown is a Delta hub, and we fly that or Virgin usually) so it's sort of a meaningless thing to say!

Holy crap! I never fly United anyway but I will definitely try to stay away from them!

I watched the video today and it was horrific. The way they handled it and even their reasoning. Why should a paying customer have to give up their seat for United employees? Bump the employee to the next flight!

Horrible all around and I plan on never using them again.

@travellingbee: we flew with them for the first time in my memory to Mexico in March and we had some major problems. When we arrived we talked to our friends about it and it sounds like no one there likes United or will fly with them.

Won't fly with them again. Our go tos are SWA, AA and Delta

I've been boycotting United since they refused to refund (or credit me) my flight that THEY cancelled a few years ago. They also completely screwed up cross-country flights for my 70+ year old MIL and her sisters - it took them 4 days to get from CA to MA in the middle of summer/good weather. Never again.

This latest from them doesn't surprise me one bit. They have gotten away with treating their customers like crap for years. Not surprising it would escalate.

@Adira: I get that, but I still don't think it's a good enough reason to tell paying customers that they have to get off of a plane. They overbooked so it's their problem if their employees can't fly to the next destination and they then need to answer to all of the other customers they pissed off if a flight is delayed. Flights get delayed all the time, it's not a reason to tell customers they can't get on a flight they paid for.
(ETA: I know you don't agree with them. Lol. Just venting about united, not your comment)

Absolutely awful and totally inexcusable! There were a number of serious errors in judgement that lead to that outcome and there really isn't anything United can say to mitigate how wrong they were. Definitely won't let them have my business after this. I used to love the service I got from Continental but United really stinks.

I can't really boycott...their hub is in NJ and they have direct flights to Europe that we leverage.

I am outraged at the airlines in general about the overselling though. I don't get why they are worried, there are less planes but more passengers on every route these days. I never see open seats. They're also clearly at fault about having not planned well to manage their staffing and the handling of that man is just downright barbaric.

Was looking to book some travel today and the only good flight times were with United but I won't fly with them after the news today.

I'll preface this with acknowledging that my opinions will not be popular here. I'm no fan of United either, never have been. That being said, I do think that some of the public uproar is misdirected and here's why. I don't speak for any airline obviously. And I do agree with 2littlepumpkins that unfortunate incidents (either for passengers or airline or both) could happen on any airline that handles millions of passengers daily.

1. None of us know exactly what transpired prior to the recording of the video. What we DO know is four people were selected to get off the plane, and three out of the four complied and didn't make the news. Even media stories confirm that the passenger in question was asked several times by airline personnel, then again by the police before actual force was used. Whether he agrees with the airline policy or not is the the point here. Federal regulations allow for airlines to make decisions on who gets to board their plane or not, amongst other things. There was no need for him to be dragged off if he had complied in the first place. Am I condoning violence because he had multiple chances to stand up and walk off on his own but didn't? No of course not but he is a grown man who certainly did his part to escalate this situation to the point it did.

2. From the news reports I've read, when the police were summoned, they also asked the passenger several times to leave. Ultimately, they were the ones who made the decision to use force, not United employees. I don't know that any normal human being, can see the video and feel "oh that's right, that's justified." But personally, if the police approached me, whether or not I felt justified in my own right, I would comply with their instructions before it became physical. (And I'm not even getting into the whole use of force by police in general but this specific instance.) I could be public crying screaming upset but once the police approached me and asked me to leave I'd be ok shit just got real, game over. I might continue crying and whine softly to the police about the unfairness but I'll do it while walking off the plane.

3. Re:overbooking - here's my personal experience - I have flown as a passenger on hundreds of oversold flights, and can count on one hand the number of flights where EVERY single passenger actually showed up. Airlines are in the PRIVATE business of selling seats, they operate on razor thin margins, and have every right to try to make a profit (which they only started doing in recent years.) So why should they be penalized if people don't show up for whatever reason? (If overselling wasn't allowed, the seat of a no-show would go out empty but the no-show passenger would generally still be allowed to reuse the value of the flight within a certain time frame... essentially the no show passenger would be double dipping while the airline loses revenue.) Bottom line is, airlines determine what flights can be oversold by how many seats using whatever data their number crunchers use, and it's pretty accurate and they are within their rights to oversell. It happens every day on almost every airline and people don't know it cause it's usually not a problem.

4. Flying is not a right. Just like any private business, the airlines can refuse service i.e., deny boarding or boot someone for reasons they see fit (outside of discrimination obviously). It seems for some reason, the general public tends to view flying differently than other goods or services for purchase, like it's something they're entitled to. It's not. Certainly this passenger could have made a complaint to United, try to get them to "make it right," etc., once he got up and left. AFTER he left. But it's not like he had some kind of inherent basic human right to the seat on this plane.

5. Re: Bumping paying passengers for working crew. First of all, this isn't optimal for anyone involved. Airline management doesnt want to lose revenue any more than a passenger wants to be kicked off a flight. But if a subsequent flight(s) get delayed or canceled because crews couldn't get to their jobs, it causes further and bigger cascading problems down the line not just for the airline itself but for other passengers.

Crews have to be repositioned at times for a variety of reasons, and this can be last minute due to the extreme FLUID nature of this job environment. There are so many scenarios I can't even begin to list them here. You can plan as far ahead and as best as you can, but weather is weather, air traffic gets just as congested like traffic on the ground except maybe worse cause planes have way more limitations than cars stuck in traffic on the ground, and planes break over time just like any machine. So much of that is invisible to the average passenger's eye (why are we delayed for "weather?" The weather is great here and there.) Look at Delta last week, ONE day of bad weather in their biggest hub and they were dealing with the aftermath of cancellations and delays for the ENTIRE rest of the week afterward because planes and crews were not where they were originally planned to be.

I do think that airlines and their employees can often do a better job of keeping passengers informed. I can see it from both sides - passengers displaying rude behavior and taking out their anger and stress on gate agents and flight attendants who have absolutely no control over delayed flights, and airline employees who can be more customer service oriented.

Someone brought up, why didn't United bus or cab the crew over? For one thing, crews have federally mandated duty day limits and rest requirements. For flight attendants the duty day limit is generally 16 hrs, and 12-16 hrs for pilots depending on several variables. That isn't a short work day for people operating heavy machinery with people's lives in their hands. We have no idea how long this particular crew's duty day was prior to this flight, how many hours they had remaining, how many flights they had left to operate, and what kind of effects their absence would have had on their remaining flights that day or even the day after, had they taken a 5 hr drive versus a 1 hr flight. This isn't just about the airline's bottom line - if the airline has to cancel a flight because the crew couldn't make it, you are talking dozens to hundreds (depending on size of plane) of passengers inconvenienced compared to the FOUR you just kicked off. Who is anyone to say those four passengers trips are more important than those of the 50, 100 more? Of course it sucks for those four people but the alternative is it would suck for many many more and that's the airline's big picture.

I just watched the video. I am appalled. The people that forcefully dragged the man were security officers, not police officers. The incident resulted in 1 security officer placed on leave.

Sign me up for this boycott. It would also be awesome if United were booted out of Star Alliance.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/10/business/united-flight-passenger-dragged.html

@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: The other thing, at least from my understanding, is that they are not supposed to separate people flying together and this man who was dragged off was flying with his wife, who was NOT chosen to be removed from the plane!

@Adira: @SweetiePie: well United needs to follow the rules if they are going to overbook flights. No consideration.

Did you all see the second video after the passenger got back on the plane? Fellow passengers speculate he was sedated in order to finally remove him. United CEO had a chilly, but diplomatic public statement, but his internal memo unflatteringly characterizes the passenger.

@Meow: I can appreciate you laying it all out there and I would have gotten up too as soon as airport police entered the situation. There has to be a better way to handle situations like this. People want to get to their destination.

@Meow: You made some really good points that I hadn't considered. I've always been against overbooking, but that's because I've never missed a flight. I have, though, had to cancel a flight and been allowed to use my credit in a certain time frame. If I'm against overbooking, it probably means I should support the airlines saying if you miss your flight or cancel your flight that credit will not be extended.

@travellingbee: Question - are you going to boycott the Chicago airport as well? Protest against the Chicago Department of Aviation security officer? I understand United requested he be forcibly removed, but I would assume they didn't condone the excess force.

I do want to say I disagree with how this was all handled and would be interested to hear more witness accounts of how things got so escalated. I'm not condoning United by any means, I just think the anger needs to be properly routed to all involved parties.

@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: Completely agree. I think that was the biggest mistake as well, but people were citing the violence not that someone had to leave the plane in general (which is an overbooking issue).

I am waiting until all of the facts come out before I make a full assessment of the situation. United obviously made some serious mistakes. Chicago Aviation Police obviously made some serious mistakes.

On the other hand, there are reports that the man was shouting "just kill me" and saying he was on the phone with his lawyer before the Chicago Aviation Police entered the plane. Whether or not he was was upset about being chosen to leave the plane, that is not appropriate behavior for a flight. If the airline had suddenly changed their mind because of his tantrum, I would have been uncomfortable having him sit behind me for the rest of the flight since he was clearly extremely agitated and irrational. Yes, I would be 100% pissed and scream at United at some point but any sane person complies when the police tell them to get off a plane.

According to NPR his wife WAS chosen and left the plane so they did not break up a party that was traveling together.

@Meow: While you make some valid points re: Overbooking, I don't agree with your conclusions. As you stated, United Airlines is a business. They have every right (and actually, they have an obligation, as they are publicly held) to try to be profitable. That being said, this isn't the way to do it. Needing to remove four passengers means United isn't operating with an appropriate margin of error for no-shows. As others have stated above, while the violence is an isolated incident (and partially attributable to the security officers, though it's important to note United Employees did nothing to intervene), having a bad experience while flying with United is not an isolated incident. As long as United operates within the confines of the law, they are able to run their business as they see fit, but ultimately, the CONSUMER deems whether their choices are appropriate. The Consumer has every right to say "I will take my money elsewhere, as I don't agree with the business practices of United". Bad customer service and bad PR are going to hurt their profit margins a hell of a lot more than assuming fewer no shows and overbooking less.