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@LCTBQE: I just wanted to say that you are doing a great job and you are NOT a mean mom. Everyone has their own opinions, in the end you spoke with your medical provider and made the decision that was right for you and your kid.
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@LCTBQE: You gotta do what works for you! I'm glad it's working so well. I'm a firm believer that a baby that's hungry will keep waking up and keep crying, not self soothe and go to sleep.
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@LCTBQE: oh my god you're giving me hope. My baby woke 6x last night. I'm a wreck and we are going to have to cio.
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@Mama Bird: ugh bless, why are they so stubborn?! yes I think the key (or part of the key) is plying them with milk all day, but I am turning myself inside out to get him to eat. I hope this distracted phase doesn't last forever
@mrsjd: shit, that is worse than newborn wakeups. she must be so tired, too
have you asked your ped about it? I do know a few women IRL whose babies regressed at that level and it pushed them to (successfully) CIO. if your daughter is already getting plenty to eat during the day, maybe she won't end up crying for very long? Let me know what happens 
@Silva: @ShootingStar: still feel like a monster listening to him cry like that, but thank you for the support
@Silva if you don't mind my asking, does your DH have a strong opinion about CIO, or does he see it in a more situationally dependent way?
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@LCTBQE: You are not a bad mom! Everyone has different opinions and ways to parent! Hang in there
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I also want to second (or third! or fourth!) that you are not a mean mama! You did something really incredible--you followed your gut, and did what you thought would be best for your little. (Which is saying a lot considering the split of opinions on this, even amongst the medical community).
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I live to be a mean momma, it means I have done my job and that I am not giving in to every demand from my son. It's a life skill.
I think you've done a great job, you didn't give up after the first night, I hope you reap the rewards!
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@LCTBQE: You sound like you are doing great! And hooray for your baby boy sleeping through the night. Please update on what happens tonight! So I jinxed myself. Baby girl was up 4.2 times last night. It was tough. I nursed her all 4 times. She was done in about 8 minutes each time. She seemed totally hungry when I picked her up each time. I'm a sucker mom. The .2 times were after wake up #3. She woke up immediately after I put her in her "crib" just as I was putting my second leg into bed. Then when I put her back in again, her damn owlet sock had shifted off and the loudest yellow alarm went off and startled her. Ugh. I do let her fuss for maybe 5 minutes. (Or maybe its 2 minutes. i don't know) but I just can't let her get to the full cry. When my husband gets home for the week and he's home at nights, I will reconsider what to do. That's Wednesday night. Lord help me if I have mind f*ck sleep deprivation until then.
ETA: To answer you question... no, i don't think we will be putting her in her own room soon. Probably put a pack and play or get a mini crib next to our bed since she's outgrowing the halo and rock and play. When did I become this kind of mom!?!?! I also sit in the back seat of the car with her. *Face in hands*
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@LCTBQE: Yeah she was a strictly 1-2 wake up baby until a month ago. My pediatrician also advised sleep training. He recommends Ferber. We also think she is teething (we have dentists in the family who checked her gums). It's just a shit show. DH doesn't want to CIO but I basically said we are going to or his ass can get up and do all the wake ups like I've been doing. It just kills him to hear her cry, which I get, but I can't survive on this amount of sleep. It's getting worse not better and she appears to have classic wrong sleep associations.
We are on vacation this week with her so we will start when we get back. I'll definitely let you know!!
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@LCTBQE: You're doing a good job! You know your kid AND yourself better than anyone and you do what works for your family. He's getting enough to eat, he's growing well, and you're helping him learn to get adequate rest. Just stay consistent - it's unfair to go back and forth on the CIO yanno?
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@mrsjd: I highly recommend making your husband deal with the wake ups! I broke down when DD was 15 months and told DH that I cannot be up for hours every night and he has to take over. Up until then, he thought that if she's crying at night it's either because I've lost my temper and yelled at her, or because I'm too slow to come and get her. Once he was responsible for her sleep, he finally understood just why I'm trying to not jump every time she cries. She sleeps in our room, so she wasn't alone all night, but I'd hide on the far side of the bed and he was on the near side talking to her. That's when he woke up at all... if she just fussed a little, he didn't even hear so she'd go back to sleep - if I was the one dealing with her, I'd have already gotten her out of bed just in case she starts screaming louder and wakes the house.
Between him not interfering with my attempts to sleep train and milk no longer being an option, it was less than a week before she stopped demanding to be picked up and fed/entertained/rocked back to sleep. She definitely knows we still love her, but we're all a lot less exhausted and miserable. Especially DD herself.
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@LCTBQE: yay! Just saw this now! For some reason I never get alerts that you tagged me.
If you're a bad mom, I'm the worst
You aren't a bad mom. You are strong and you are doing what you know is best for you and the baby. There's a reason sleep training and CIO exist. May not be for everyone, but it's highly successful for those who can stick to it.
KeepIt
Agree with @gingerbebe: that consistency is the most crucial part of sleep training/CIO. GREAT JOB! You've passed the hardest part! -
@LCTBQE: he views it as situational! Basically he has been wanting to do full CIO to get A to put himself to sleep since 3/4 months because he hates that I co sleep. I think he'd generally be supportive of whatever a patient thought was best, as long as the baby was growing well.
The only caution we've ever discussed is that full night weaning can impact breast milk supply, so if that's really important to a family it's worth keeping a night feeding or two until the kid naturally drops them. -
@LCTBQE: Just seeing this. You're not a mean mom at all, and you're doing a great job!
I will echo what @SweetiePie: said. We also eliminated night feeding early (we dropped an ounce at a time), and followed "12 hours sleep by 12 weeks". DS1 slept 12 hours at 8 weeks and DS2 by 12 weeks. I will say, both my boys were ravenous eaters during the day and were both at the top percentiles for weight. Now, at almost 4 and 1.5, they still are both great sleepers.
You're doing a great job! Do what you gotta do! Moms need sleep too!
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@FaithFertility: @pwnstar: @looch: @agold: @gingerbebe: @SweetiePie: @ValentineMommy: thank you so much for reassuring me and telling me your experiences, ladies
My update from Night 4 is that the baby STTN without a peep!!! and woke up super happy and sweet at 7am for the second day in a row--I am floored. Feels too good to be true, but he is doing it and I am so happy 1) that we're all getting better rest and 2) that the CIO fucking horrible worst night of my life wasn't for nothing.
I think the missing piece of the puzzle for me was making sure he got ALL the milk he needed during the day, which this thread really brought to my attention. He is still eating distractedly, but it's no longer impossible to feed him (even daycare was able to feed him well today).
@looch: haha, I love this
@SweetiePie: @gingerbebe: thank you for the reminder to remain consistent! kind of half-expecting an extinction burst at some point, but I'm so encouraged by your remarks and how quickly the baby took to STTN that I don't think I'll be as tempted to throw in the towel. still torture to hear him cry, but if the price of the ticket really does turn out to be two shitty nights vs umpteen months of interrupted sleep for everyone, I'm kind of glad to have paid it.@ValentineMommy: wow, your sons did great! SweetiePie and several people IRL have told me about that book, too--I'm going to have a look at it for #2 for sure. and couldn't agree more with moms need sleep too. maybe I'll start a line of t-shirts and bumper stickers
@Mama Bird: OMG, you went 15 months being the only one waking up? BLESS. my husband basically refused to help me until I went back to work at 3.5 months, and I was about to kill him even then. once they get a taste they really have a new appreciation for broken sleep.
@mrsjd: good luck with ferber, I'm curious about it--let me know what happens. our ped's group practice recommends full-on extinction (I'm not really sure why--maybe they think it takes slightly fewer nights?), but god the checks sound so much less awful. husband situation sounds familiar
no skin off their backs to have you up all night soothing, right? also I'm sure you were planning this, but recommend that you start on a Friday night and count on the whole weekend being not great -
@agold: I laughed at 4.2 times and your face in hands
you're not a sucker mom! you're taking the best possible care of a tiny helpless little human it sounds like the other night was an anomaly, though, and that she's a pretty good sleeper overall (so maybe you don't *need* to let her get to insane cry?)
I can't believe she's still in a RNP though, our boo outgrew his at like 5 weeks--he started getting super squirmy and it seemed like he really wanted to stretch out. BTW I would ride in the back seat too except I get terribly carsick
@Silva: that sounds like a super reasonable philosophy for both you guys and his patients (but I think it's great that you get final say
). we co-slept on vacation over Christmas and my husband similarly hated it. did you guys do it when your DD was tiny, too?at our group practice they are slightly religious fanatic-y about extinction. I don't think if I hadn't expressed (possibly ardent) interest in getting more consistent sleep from our boo that the ped would have pressured us, though.
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@LCTBQE: yay!
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@LCTBQE: yes yes yes!!!! So happy to see this update. CIO is damn hard but it works and is damn worth it.
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@LCTBQE: okay... your success story might have put me over the edge. Once my 8 month old is over his cold, I think I will make sure he's eating lots during the day including a pumped big bottle before bed and give my pro- CIO husband the monitor. You are amazing for getting through that hellish night and you andyour baby both seem so much happier for it. I have been sleep deprived for way too long and it's affecting my health and sanity, so I think we're going to go for it!
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@LCTBQE: he's a pretty "research informed" kind of doctor and all the research on CIO says it's fine and probably helpful. Congrats on the sleep- that's amazing! I lost my shit last night because sleep is so bad here. We have coslept since day one. I don't really like it but it's easier than getting out of bed (which is what we are doing now as we try to transition to the crib
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@Silva: @LCTBQE: Yes, FWIW, the AAP has also specifically said that sleep training is "effective and safe."
@LCTBQE: Glad things are going well for you guys!
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@LCTBQE: I'm glad you laughed. I laugh at myself in embarrassment.
My toots is pretty much back to her normal - 330 am wake up to eat and back to bed and then a 630 am followed by a tiny nap. She is fussing about 15 mintues after I initially put her down, though. So crazy. I'm happy with it enough that i don't yet feel the need to do any kind of sleep training. I am currently the only one who wakes up with her! My husband never wakes up. I'm longing for a Saturday morning when I can sleep in a bit!! Hey - have you left your baby with a sitter for an evening yet? I have a birthday dinner for a friend I want to go to next month. She will be 6 months. But I will need a sitter (my sister) for the evening and she will have to be put to bed by someone else! Have you done that yet? And hey - good job on sleep training your boy! I think you are doing great!!!!
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Update for anyone still curious, or dying of sleep deprivation
So we have done 8 nights since we started full-extinction, night weaning, CIO sleep training. 4.5 month old baby boo was previously taking in 1/3 of his calories during the night feedings, now is getting all 30 oz during the day.
Nights 1-2: absolutely awful (between 1 to 3 hours crying)
Nights 3-4 amazing (barely a peep)
Night 5: worst night of my life (4 hours straight fussing/hard crying)
Nights 6-8: pretty good! (baby waking and fussing around 5am, taking 10-ish minutes to fall back asleep).I think Night 5 was an extinction burst, and it was FROM. HELL.
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@LCTBQE: came back to read this last update. How are things going since you're almost a month in? xoxo
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@LCTBQE: curious for an update myself. I am looking for encouragement to get started with my 5.5 month old who likes to eat more at night vs. at daycare. As I lay in the dark angry that he keeps needing help to sleep. Ack
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@Plainpistachio: so, all in all, the CIO really worked. I started this thread in January and we've yo-yo'ed and had a few bouts of maybe 4 or 5 days "off the wagon" where I'd feed him if he woke up in the middle of the night. each time that happened I was sure it was associated with either a growth spurt or teething pain (in which case I gave baby advil with a small bottle). twice in these past few months, those off the wagon times kind of got out of hand and we had to re-train (i.e. grit our teeth and re-commit to CIO)--and each time it worked in one night with about an hour of crying, and then back to STTN. so it hasn't been perfect and I haven't been totally hard as nails about it like I thought I would be, but on the whole it has been *really* effective. I was losing my mind with exhaustion before we trained, and now he STTN 7:30pm-6-ish am, not always, but almost always. I know there are a lot of other methods out there that don't use pure extinction, but they only made my baby more upset, so this is just what worked for us. if you have any specific questions i'm happy to answer if I can! good luck
ETA--because you talked about the feeding problem with your boo--the times that I have fed him at night, a little 4-oz bottle is enough to get him through if he's in a growth spurt--but we are entirely off the business of taking in 1/3 of his total calories in the middle of the night. my baby is *really* easily distracted eating during the day, but once the night feedings weren't an option, he got on board with eating during the day. -
@SweetiePie: there's my update! sorry I somehow missed this tag from a few months back--still so grateful for your support on this topic
it's a shitty topic, but easier with veteran cheerleaders -
@LCTBQE: Thanks for the update and tips! Glad to hear it. Omg sleeping solid until 6 am is a dream! I'm armed with my Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child book, baby turns six months in a week while we are on vacation (in 3 hour different time zone). So plan is to try his own room and sleep training in early June. In the meantime I'm just soaking up all the information I can. His dad is ready. I'm the one who will need to be strapped down to not respond to him! Last night he had sweet potato (so far we've only tried cereal and a couple foods. He slept longer than usual. Maybe carbs help him stay more full. Even though my book says food has nothing to do with it, lol.
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@Plainpistachio: you can do it!! sleeping until 6am is accessible, it really is
don't know if you can discern from this huge thread but our baby was *really* not naturally a good sleeper. great plan to start when you're back and settled in from vacation. for us, just making sure that he got all the milk he needed during the day was key, I went kind of crazy making sure that happened. not sure about solids but some people seem to think it helps their babies. also, I think that Weissbluth book is educational/interesting but I got really frustrated with a lack of structure in it--curious, are you finding it helpful? anyway, good luck and let me know how it goes
have you asked your ped about it? I do know a few women IRL whose babies regressed at that level and it pushed them to (successfully) CIO. if your daughter is already getting plenty to eat during the day, maybe she won't end up crying for very long? Let me know what happens 
My toots is pretty much back to her normal - 330 am wake up to eat and back to bed and then a 630 am followed by a tiny nap. She is fussing about 15 mintues after I initially put her down, though. So crazy. I'm happy with it enough that i don't yet feel the need to do any kind of sleep training. I am currently the only one who wakes up with her! My husband never wakes up. I'm longing for a Saturday morning when I can sleep in a bit!! Hey - have you left your baby with a sitter for an evening yet? I have a birthday dinner for a friend I want to go to next month. She will be 6 months. But I will need a sitter (my sister) for the evening and she will have to be put to bed by someone else! Have you done that yet? And hey - good job on sleep training your boy! I think you are doing great!!!!
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