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If you typically vote Republican...

  • poll: Would you vote for Trump?
    Yes, I would vote for him no matter what : (8 votes)
    10 %
    I would vote for Clinton over Trump : (9 votes)
    11 %
    I would vote for Sanders over Trump : (19 votes)
    24 %
    I would vote for a third party over Trump : (20 votes)
    25 %
    I would not vote : (8 votes)
    10 %
    I'm not sure : (16 votes)
    20 %
  1. daniellemybelle

    cantaloupe / 6669 posts

    @Anagram: @yoursilverlining: I never meant that there are certain people that don't deserve lawyers. But I have a hard time reconciling that a women's rights advocate was a lawyer for a child rapist. I appreciate some of the context about her role at the time. But I do think that's reasonable? And I think it's also reasonable to say, "Hey, wait a minute, you think all victims should be believed... except your husband's victims?"

    ETA: This is where the political allegiances really come in, I think. I really believe that if a woman was running for President as a Republican and she had done the above, she would be very criticized by "the left." And again, I'm definitely left myself! But this stuff still bothers me - I don't want to just overlook it because she's "our candidate."

  2. pinkcupcake

    cantaloupe / 6751 posts

    @yoursilverlining: thanks for explaining that so well. I hate to see a criminal defense attorney unfairly criticized for doing her job and abiding by the legal ethics rules.

  3. lawbee11

    GOLD / watermelon / 14076 posts

    @yoursilverlining: Thank you for your post. Clinton representing a rapist as a criminal defense attorney in no way means that she is not an advocate for women. There are plenty of things that Clinton deserves criticism over, but this is definitely not one of them.

  4. artsyfartsy

    cantaloupe / 6692 posts

    @avivoca: Don't get me started on our new governor! As a state worker, his first executive orders completely demolished any good we had going for us.

  5. LCTBQE

    nectarine / 2461 posts

    @yoursilverlining: @daniellemybelle: I think the reason why HRC's child rape case is still memorable 40 years later is that it's the first time of many (whether it was, as she saw it, her professional duty or not) that she discredited the character of a victim of sexual violence. I am glad to learn that she was professionally obligated to defend him and asked to be removed, but I do recall that she painted the child as having a history of dishonesty and seeking out older men-- nice touch. I hope my recollection on that is wrong (it's been a while) but this followed up by years of scraping Bill Clinton's victims of sexual violence/exploitation off the bottom of her shoe is really not the liberal champion of female rights that I would *love* the opportunity to vote for.

    That said, like @daniellemybelle thinks, of course she'd do miles better for women's rights than any of the republicans, no question--and no one thinking seriously about their vote will overlook that. but I can't shake the stench, or the feeling that we're just a vehicle for her.

  6. pinkcupcake

    cantaloupe / 6751 posts

    @LCTBQE: Unfortunately (I think that's the right word to use in this situation?), defense attorneys have the legal and ethical obligation to "zealously advocate" for their client and this means presenting the strongest defense and arguments for your client. If she painted the victim in a certain light, it's because it was her ethical obligation to do so, as an attorney. She had to zealously advocate for her client or she would be violating ethics laws.

    I know a lot of people are disgusted by criminal defense attorneys, but they do what they are legally obligated to do.

  7. daniellemybelle

    cantaloupe / 6669 posts

    @LCTBQE: All of this - thank you. I would love the opportunity to vote for a sincere champion of women's rights, as well!

  8. Adira

    wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts

    @yoursilverlining: @pinkcupcake: Yes yes yes!!! Thank you to you both for saying this! It's so unfair how she's being attacked because she did her JOB and had a legal and ethical responsibility to do so, even if it sucked!

  9. caitlanc

    cherry / 156 posts

    I asked a friend (who holds very different political opinions than I do) and I think he summed up his predicted Bernie vs. Trump race really well.

    "I don't want Bernie or Trump. It seems like a common trend lately that we have to vote for the lesser of two evils... But this year is different... Like worse. Do we choose to become a socialist nation or an isolationist nation where nobody can come in?"

    Personally, between those two, I feel an isolationist would do more damage on the world stage. We can survive (and recover, if need be) after 4 years of Democratic Socialism. I'm not sure the same can be said of isolationism.

  10. pinkcupcake

    cantaloupe / 6751 posts

    @Adira: thank you. And this is exactly why as a lawyer, I never ever wanted to get into criminal defense.

  11. Maysprout

    grapefruit / 4800 posts

    I kept thinking Rubio was going to be at least the VP nominee but did anyone catch the debate? He sort of self destructed in the Christie exchange.

  12. lawbee11

    GOLD / watermelon / 14076 posts

    @Maysprout: I was out of town but watched a video of the exchange on YouTube...cringeworthy!

    ETA: Here's the clip I watched:


  13. Tidybee

    nectarine / 2834 posts

    @Maysprout: I'm certainly not a rubio fan (or a republican for that matter) but DH and I are very into politics. I couldn't help but cringe watching this live. I'm fairly moderate and think he plays to the base way more now than how he'd be as president, but his inability to think on the fly and even just choose different words is very concerning for someone who wants to be president and have to make extremely major decisions.

  14. Mrs. Chocolate

    blogger / nectarine / 2600 posts

    @lawbee11: Ok this was a bit sad to watch. Its like he is on a bad loop. I thought I hit rewind by accident until the 3rd time.

  15. Applesandbananas

    pomegranate / 3845 posts

    @lawbee11: cringe worthy for Chris Christie! I was appalled when I saw the news story Marco Rubio is referring to. Christie absolutely did not want to go back, he was undeniably shamed into it, and left the second he could, to get back to the campaign trail. I think Christie exaggerates his so-called accomplishments.

  16. lawbee11

    GOLD / watermelon / 14076 posts

    @Applesandbananas: Oh I thought it was way more cringeworthy for Rubio. He even got booed for firing back at Christie like that. At the end of the day I'm not voting for either of them, but it was painful to watch Rubio.

  17. Tidybee

    nectarine / 2834 posts

    @Applesandbananas: He does. As a NJ resident, I can speak to this. But one thing he does well - he calls it like it is...which can be both refreshing and cringeworthy depending on the situation....and he certainly called rubio what he is.

  18. Mrs. Chocolate

    blogger / nectarine / 2600 posts

    @lawbee11: As another Nj resident I can say I dislike Christie for so many reasons this storm just adding on the pile. I would never in a million years vote for this man, I wish I could oust him as governor as is. All of this is moot point though as Ill never vote Republican especially with this lot as the choices.

  19. Mrs. Chocolate

    blogger / nectarine / 2600 posts

    @lawbee11: Yes OMG cringe worthy for Rubio. I honestly thought I rewind the video when he verbatim said exactly what he said a few seconds ago as if no one would realize? Talk about not being able to go past a script

  20. Applesandbananas

    pomegranate / 3845 posts

    @Mrs. Chocolate: I didn't watch the debate in full, but I think his goal was repetition for emphasis and it fell flat with Christie screaming at him. I reaaaaally hope Christie fails miserably in NH and drops out. He's so embarrassing to the GOP. Him and Trump, ugh.

    Rubio's my guy. I don't love the fact that he isn't the most experienced guy out there, but I'm hoping he can bring change to Washington by not being the guy who's been there for 30+ years. He's certainly not perfect, but IMO, is the best shot the GOP has.

  21. Applesandbananas

    pomegranate / 3845 posts

    @Tidybee: I used to like Christie's tell-it-like-it-is approach, when he first started gaining national attention, but he's self-destructed since.

  22. Pirouette

    pomegranate / 3331 posts

    I was so glad someone finally called Rubio out on what i see from him every single time he speaks. He just launches into his memorized talking points, regardless of whether they have anything to do with the question. Not to mention I could never vote for someone who refuses to show up for his current senate job and doesn't participate in votes so as not to create a voting record so he can later flip flop on the issues.

    I don't love christie, nor do i think he stands a chance, but at least someone had the guts to finally say it out loud.

  23. Pirouette

    pomegranate / 3331 posts

    @Applesandbananas: I wouldn't worry about Christie going too far. I'd say Trump has a similar personality in a lot of ways and is taking all of the votes from those that vote based on that type of personality Christie will be one of the next to drop out, I'd say, along with Fiorina and possibly Carson.

  24. Maysprout

    grapefruit / 4800 posts

    @Applesandbananas: I'm not republican but from when I've heard him, which isn't much, it seemed like he could best explain the issues and rationally defend his choices even if I didn't necessarily agree. I think he's picked more party lines since running, which I guess he has more difficulty defending or something? Or maybe was too worried about staying on message that Obamas relatively little time in the senate made him naive since Rubio just kept repeating he knew exactly what he was doing. It was strange.

  25. lawbee11

    GOLD / watermelon / 14076 posts

    @Pirouette: I have a group of girlfriends I group chat with during the debates (both republican and democratic debates) and we've noticed since the beginning that Rubio often doesn't answer the question asked and just has a canned response he uses even when it's not relevant. So I'm glad we're not the only ones who have noticed that! This encounter with Christie was much worse and more obvious, though.

  26. Pirouette

    pomegranate / 3331 posts

    @lawbee11: um, how do I get in your girlfriends group? that sounds fun. and yea, this one was so blatant you simply couldn't miss it, but it's a common theme with him, for sure. I have found that he's the kind of candidate that I like less and less the more i see of him - he may have been better served by having fewer debates.

  27. Tidybee

    nectarine / 2834 posts

    @lawbee11: that's why my dislike for him has grown. it's the same talking points over and over. I want to start a new debate drinking game that makes you drink every time he says "in the history of"; "disaster" and "apocalyptic".

  28. sunny

    coconut / 8430 posts

    @lawbee11: I think a lot of politicians do this. As much as I love HRC, when I attended an event she was speaking at, she totally just spouted off a canned answer regarding (illegal) immigration even though the question was regarding legal/skilled labor immigration.

  29. lawbee11

    GOLD / watermelon / 14076 posts

    @Pirouette: LOL, yeah we were bummed when O'Malley dropped out cause he was our eye candy

    @Tidybee: Hahaha you'd be drunk very quickly!

    @sunny: Oh yeah, definitely. I feel like it sort of comes with the territory of being a politician to an extent. It just seems like with Rubio (at least from what I've observed) a lot of his answers always end with ISIS, we will destroy them, etc. when a question had nothing to do with that. But he's definitely not alone in having canned answers!

  30. Pirouette

    pomegranate / 3331 posts

    @Tidybee: haha disaster is like every third word out of his mouth! It sucks not being able to drink for these debates

    @sunny: oh absolutely, they all have their talking points and tend to run into practiced answers at least on occasion (how many times has trump said he's going to make something terrific or great?). but Rubio's responses tend to lack substance even when they aren't canned responses so it just seems like it's rare to hear an actual original thought out of him.

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