Hellobee Boards

@Miss Ariel: the thing is, the police didn't know whether or not his gun was legal and Louisiana is an open carry state. If someone has a gun in their pocket, the automatic response should obviously not be to shoot them, since it is perfectly legal for people to carry weapons on their person. Not that that should be the automatic response anyway...To me this is a fundamental problem with the idea that the general public should be armed wherever they go. How are people to know which firearms are legal and which aren't? And guns can do harm in a split second. Anyway, history shows many seem to think when a white man carries a gun, he's exercising his rights and when a black man carries a gun he's a threat.

@MrsSCB: It's my understanding that Philando Castile informed the officer who had stopped him that he had a conceal carry license and was reaching for his wallet when he was shot. I don't understand how things went wrong when he informed the officer of his weapon, was asked for ID, and then was shot while trying to get the ID.

@daniellemybelle:

@agold: @psw27: I don't believe his girlfriend started filming until after he had been shot.

@Adira: That could very well be the case regarding the filming of the car stop. Do you know if the officer had a body camera on?

@agold: I read that the officers in that area do not wear body cams, so unfortunately, I don't think there's an visual evidence for what happened prior to the shooting.

@agold: but what does that comment have to do with the cases people are discussing? Neither of the black men that were shot and killed were hopped up on meth, or gang members...they were just Black.

@agold: When my white DH was carrying and got pulled over for speeding and told them he had a conceal carry, they didn't shoot him. In fact, he didn't even get a ticket for speeding.

@lilyann: That's great for your husband. I haven't been shot when pulled over either. Neither have any of my black or asian friends. Phew.

@agold: So glad you live in a place without racial profiling. Wish I could say the same for my friends of different races.

@mrsjazz: I saw an article about that DJ rant and totally agree. While in general, I believe most police officers are good people who try to do the right thing, that doesn't mean they are never at fault. It oftens feels like, after a tragedy like this, we try to find reasons why it happened to defend the police officer in question, when sometimes there really is no defense. Not saying that we should automatically assume a police officer involved in a shooting is guilty of a crime, but neither should we just assume that the person who was shot deserved to be shot.

@lawbee11: These stories just hurt my heart now. I lived in Europe for many years and things like this just didnt happen. The number of people killed by cops in this country is a joke and all my family and friends in europe think its insane. The worst thing is that it just repeats itself and more often than not the "good cops" look the other way or corroborate the story of the bad cops and there is no justice.

@Miss Ariel: And yet both incidents ended the same way. So it seems no matter what these men did, it wouldn't have been enough to save them. Simply possessing a gun somehow made them threatening, even though so many in this country claim gun ownership to be a fundamental right for all citizens.

@agold: I think, to be fair, you have to compare apples to apples. Take Castile, for example. I do absolutely believe that if a white man was stopped for having a broken light, and he told the officer he was getting his license and registration, just as the officer asked, and also that he had a gun that he was legally permitted to own in his car, he would not be shot by the officer.

@MrsSCB: I can totally compare apples to apples. But I haven't seen the full video of that car stop at issue. I don't know what happened before. I have seen one picture of that guy with two kids pointing guns at the camera. If it was a white guy in that same picture, I would be making the same presumption that the guy did something to make the officer fear for his safety. But either way, its so sad and awful. Maybe the officer wasn't well trained and was scared too easily. Maybe he hated black people and shot that guy for no reason. Maybe the guy who was shot was a piece of shit who did something to cause the officer to reasonably fear for his safety. I don't know. I haven't seen what happened. Sucks all around either way.

I am so sad, for the families and for everyone who is affected in one way or another by incidents like these.

@agold: I think police officer tribalism is a big part of the problem. It's a unique field, I wouldn't want to have to confront mentally I'll and possibly armed people on a regular basis. But at the same time I can't say that it's normal to just jump to conclusion of innocence either just bc youre in the same field - not saying you have, just a lot of police officers and their families that's the outlook I get.

I don't think everyone accused of making up data is wrongly accused and Dh doesn't think all malpractice cases are BS, it's just not logical.
I feel like what's going on with police officers now it's the same sort of denial that happens in any sort of blind tribalism. For example the Catholic Church, a small minority of priests were child abusers but that crap went on for decades pretty much sanctioned by the church as abuse was denied, covered up or priests were just shuffled to a different congregation to abuse elsewhere. It took external pressure to change but really it wasn't until the church really got on board has there been real change - it takes responsibility from within the tribe to effect change.

@Maysprout: I'm definitely not jumping to conclusions as to guilt or innocence. Except with respect to what what we do know - someone called the police regarding the guy in front of the store doing something menacing with a gun and the guy in the car had a broken tail light. I don't know anything else because I didn't see a video showing the first part of the car stop and I wasn't part of the scuffle in front of the store. I definitely know there is tribalism amongst the police force. It's a scary job and we do all look out for each other's families. But I'm so glad that all of the police families I know consist of great cops, all diverse amongst themselves, who have no desire to cause any injury to anyone and just want to protect their communities. There is, however, a strong desire now, because of the harsh liberal media scrutiny, to stop proactive policing. That would be a sad thing for many communities. It's hard to even want to respond to calls when you know you can be sued for how you respond. . Regarding your comparison to the Catholic Church. That was a sick massive cover up with innocent children being the victims. With police shootings, there is almost always in all cases I can think of a person committing a criminal act; and then a subsequent confrontation with police officers. Of course a criminal doesn't deserve to die, but if he causes a cop to fear for his life, then he is creating that sad situation for himself. So totally different scenarios in my mind. Children being molested versus criminals being shot by police. I think that police need to have better training so they aren't so quick on the trigger. But any time any one has a gun and isn't complying with an officers demands then it's tough to fault an officer who ends up in fear for his own or the public's safety. It's sad that society is now encouraging people to be afraid of police and to question police and in general not comply. I think it would be better to be thrown into jail for a night even if wrongfully so and then pursue a civil rights lawsuit immediately after. There are plenty of attorneys waiting to sue cops and police departments so no problem doing so. As for the two men at issue, I don't have any conclusions about what happened. But the media automatically concludes that these men were choir boys targeted by white cops who hate black people. I haven't seen anything that would lead anyone to that particular assumption. It's so sad all around. So sad for the men who were killed. So sad for the cops who know have to deal with killing someone and all that comes with that. I highly doubt either of these cops went about celebrating their kill. It's horrible. I always pray that my husband stays safe and that he doesn't have to shoot anyone. What a horrible thing all around to have to deal with. When my husband and I watched those videos on the news, all we thought was just that it's a horrible situation. We can't and didn't assume anything about either side.

@agold: in a lot of the cases victims have not been aggressive or criminals.
But Dallas is ridiculously tragic, I don't even really understand what's happening there. How did what sounds like trained snipers get access to business roofs to cause such horrible tragedies

@MrsSCB: exactly - in this country, if you are black, yoire damned if you don't and damned if you do. Make no mistake, they weren't perceived as threatening because they simply had a gun, they were perceived as threatening because they were black. Plain and simple.