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@JoJoGirl: haha, well, I only mentioned it because @littlejoy: said baby names websites would mention that it was offensive and then @mediagirl: posted one that DID mention it was offensive, so I wanted to point out that not all of them do, so expecting someone who's never heard of this before to know might be asking a bit much.
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@Adira: Ah okay got it
I would never have guess Delilah may be offensive to some!
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@JoJoGirl: I didn't know that one could be offensive either!
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To address the question of what's wrong with saying it's ignorant - I think people have kind of come to associate ignorant with being dumb and uneducated. It seems to carry a very negative connotation with it these days - almost seems synonymous with bigoted. So I think that's where people feel it's offensive to be called ignorant.
With regards to the name itself, I like the name. I consider myself to be relatively in touch with cultural sensitivities, Jewish in particular due to working with the Jewish population at one point in my career, but I was unaware (ignorant) of the strong historical/religious aspects of the name. Now that I am aware, it would make me think twice about using it for my own child.
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I have a family member who named her son Koen. We are not Jewish and myself and definitely my family member would have no idea that this name could be offensive.
To call someone ignorant, undophisticated, and not worldly because they chose this name for their child to me is very offensive and hurtful. I am en educated person and so is my family member. Some people name their child a name because they like the way it sounds. Some people do not research names, so be it. Doesn't make them a bad person.
I usually do not respond negatively to posts because I think everyone has a right to their own thoughts, feelings, opinions and the ability to express them. What I like about HB is all of the things that I have learned and different perspectives. If I do not agree with something I usually do not respond but today I feel compelled to. I am personally offended and hurt about some of the responses on this thread. I do not think it is very nice what is being said about people based on their name choice for their child.
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@JoJoGirl: @Adira: I don't think the misgiving about the name Delilah is that it's possibly offensive, it's that there is a woman with that name in the Bible and she's rather infamous. Sort of like the names Iago, Voldemort, Screwtape, or Sauron aren't necessarily offensive, but would possibly raise eyebrows if you are familiar with the stories they feature in.
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@honeybear: thank you, I was coming to say that.
@JoJoGirl: as the person who mentioned Delilah in the other thread, I didn't say it was offensive, I gave an example of a religious name I personally would never use because I know the story in the bible. I also said its a really cute name so it's a bummer I have that connotation in my head. I couldn't care less if someone else used the name though! -
@travellingbee: Ditto!!
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@Mrs. Pen: Ah okay! Just using it as an example.
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@Canoli: not 100% sure about this, but I lived in the Netherlands and have known two men named Koen (they pronounced it kind of like "Koon") and I believe that it's actually an unrelated Dutch name, not a variation on Cohen.
I don't think names of other cultures should be off limits, and wish it didn't feel like that was the case. I'm not hispanic or a Christian, but I love the names Inez and Guadalupe; I'm not black but I love the name Tyrone, which my husband laughed at me for. but, while I wouldn't think someone was "ignorant" for not already knowing what Cohen means, I do think it's pretty amazing that someone would name their child without looking into it.
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I would hope that anyone thinking of giving their kid a name that may be seen as disrespectful or a sign of ignorance on religious grounds would consider how bearing that name might impact their kid as they go through life. The parent might not care about thumbing their nose at the religious significance of the name, but do you really want your kid to have to deal with that just because the name sounds "fresh" or "modern"? (Which makes me laugh because "Cohen" is positively ancient.)
As a Jew, I can't say I necessarily find it offensive, just like I can't say I'm "offended" by the lack of Jewish content on Hellobee. I guess you just shrug your shoulders and come to expect a lack of knowledge or interest in Jewish culture or tradition in most parts of the US.
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I grew up in a big Jewish neighbor and was not aware that Cohen as a first name would be offensive... As a name itself, I don't really like it since I associate it as a last name too.
I'm Christian, and there are tons of people out there name Jesus and I'm not offended...?
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@LCTBQE: the good thing is Tyrone is not a black name just stereotypically associated with black people. The black & white photo is the film actor who popularized the name in the '40s and '50s. If you recall one of the victims in Benghazi was named Tyrone- he was white as well. The name Tyrone is Irish Gaelic in origin.
I'm sure there are tons of names we associate as black names for example Tamika, but that's actually Japenese or Dwayne, which is Irish or Latoya, which is Spanish. Don't get me wrong when I see a white Lamar say TN Senator Lamar Alexander I do a double take, but I have to remember there really aren't black names aside from clearly the creative names that seem to have started in the '60s and are American in origin.
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@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: ah, love your whole post! so educational
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@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: I just wanted to let you know that as a person of Italian descent, I'd have no issue if you used Luciana, but using the nickname Lucky would cause me to "think twice." A lot of Italians aren't proud of the glorification of the mob.
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@looch: point taken.
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I don't think naming your kid Cohen is like naming your kid Jesus. I think it's more like naming your kid King, or Priest, or Senator, something along those lines. People do it, but many people would scratch their head. And that's just the name itself, without the element of cultural appropriation or offense.
Then again people name their kids Hunter, which, when I think about it, what? Would they also name their kid Butcher? Just, why? I mean, the German last name Metzger means butcher, and last names as first names are hot so... /tangent
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@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: @looch: we should also remember that Luciana is a real first name. Italians might feel differently if you named your kid Pope or Il Duce or...
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@MoonMoon: yes, and as Christians we are not in a tradition of passing on, and valuing the passing on, of the name Jesus. So it is not similar.
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@Greentea: Right
But if there was some last name that identified some people as being a descendant of Jesus, and someone non-Christian named a kid that as a first name because it sounds cool, would that change things? Again I'm not the least bit offended, but trying to draw some sort of parallel -
@Greentea: What do you mean Christians do not value passing on the name Jesus? All of the Hispanic men I know named Jesus are from Christian/ Catholic families.
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@Canoli: Koen is different from Kohen/Cohen. If you google the name, you can see that it's just the short form for Conrad in Dutch. I wouldn't go so far as calling someone unsophisticated and unworldly for choosing the name, but i am surprised by people who upon finding out say "who cares, i like the name!" Obviously, my friend who named her kid Cohen didn't do any research on the name and friends teased the dad (after announcing the name change) since he grew up with Jewish friends with the last name Cohen.
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@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: Cohen is passed down and having the name means that the family is descended from the ancient Kohanim. To be similar in Christianity, anyone named Jesus would be descended directly from Jesus.
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@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: ms. @oliviaoblivia: explains!
@JoJoGirl: yeah! Like @oliviaoblivia: details!
@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: I do not mean it is not valued, rather the name Cohen implies a descendant, while I don't know of that connection with the name Jesus.
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@MoonMoon: Very true. But I do know a few Benitos!
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@oliviaoblivia: thanks @Greentea: ah ok now I see what you were getting at.
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Well wow!! Ok! I'm glad I chose to go a more common route for our baby names.
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I like the name! I am not religious in any way shape or form, and as an atheist I do not associate with any type of religion. So, to me, it just sounds like a nice name.
In regards to not using it because of its association, you could have that attitude towards just about everything and religion. If someone chooses to be offended or surprised at a name selection which was made with no intention to have any correlation, then that's their own problem. Shrug.
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@anonysquire: lol.
I would never have guess Delilah may be offensive to some!
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