I am back at work for the third week, and LO is 12 weeks old as of yesterday. LO has been EBF "on demand" and I pump for bottles. Our childcare varies every day - my mom, MIL, or DH. I also leave the house at different times every morning depending on DH's work schedule. LO doesn't sleep through the night yet, and he doesn't wake up at the same time (or nap the same time) every day. I am willing to wake him up at a set time to start creating a schedule.
Here's the problem - we have been giving roughly 8-9 oz of pumped milk every day that I am at work. Goal was to feed LO based on his hunger cues, but roughly every 2 - 2 1/2 hours. It's not working. Both of our moms are over-feeding him in our opinion. He fusses, they try to soothe him for a minute, then it's straight to a bottle. So they feed all his milk to early in the day and then he's "STARVING" (their words, ugh) when I get off work at 5 pm. I feel very stressed rushing to get to LO after work every day. Something needs to change! I thought we could get him on more of a set feeding schedule, starting at 5:15/5:30 pm and working backwards! Can someone experienced help me figure this out? I nurse on my lunch break every day so that feeding is already set (12:15 - 12:30 depending on if I go home, or go to MIL's).
How many times a day did your EBF babies eat, especially around 3 months? The average for my LO when he nurses on weekends is 9 feedings. 3 of those usually in the evening. 2 are usually middle of the night/early am (2-3 am ish, 430 -530 am ish).
I can give more detailed examples of schedules if needed (need to grab them from my notebook and ipad at home). Thanks for any advice!
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My LO started day care at 15 weeks and by then (and still now at 7 months) she was eating every three hours. She's still not technically on a "schedule" because her wake up time varies. But whenever she wakes up she eats and then she gets a bottle every three hours after that. She used to have a 4 ounce bottle every three hours, around 4.5 months we bumped it to a five ounce bottle every three hours and at 6.5 months we added two servings of solids per day. I would pick the time you want him to go between feeding and then work backwards from your set lunch time nursing session. So lets say you want to nurse at 12:30 and have baby eat every 2.5 hours. So feed baby at 7:30, tell your mom/MIL to feed him at 10, you nurse at 12:30, mom/MIL feeds him at 3 and then you nurse him at 5:30pm. And just tell them flat out, if it's not time for him to eat again, they're just going to have to find other ways to soothe him.
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@MamaMoose: Thank you. I question myself so much over this. Am I feeding him too much/too little? Am I feeding him too often/not often enough? It's so hard!
The 7:30 am feeding is a little stressful because on days I have to take LO to my MIL's (15 minutes away from our apartment, then another 15 minutes to get to work after dropping him off) I need to leave by 7:45/7:50 am. LO definitely doesn't eat that fast!
I pump once every AM and I freeze all my pumped milk each day and rotate the oldest milk out for bottles. I guess one option would be to NOT freeze my first pump of the day on MIL days. That was he can have a quick bottle either before I leave, or as soon as we arrive at MIL's. I just HATE that it's not a consistent routine every day - my brain works best with consistent routines. -
is it even possible to get a 12 week old on a schedule during the night? like if I tried waking him at regular times to eat would that be a disaster waiting to happen?
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@cmomma17: believe me I know the feeling. My LOs wake up/eating time not being consistent also means my pump times at work aren't consistent which gets frustrating! We also always have issues with other people over feeding her. Babies tend to want to eat more when they are in unfamiliar situations because its a comfort for them. So your LO will probably seem less hungry as he gets used to his new normal schedule. And I promise the time to eat will get better too. My Lo used to nurse for sooooooo long. Now she can finish off a boob and be totally satisfied in 5-7 minutes!
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We used to do the same as @MamaMoose. At 3 months, LO was eating just about every 3 hours. And at that point, he could stand to be awake for about an hour and a half. We would wake to feed, play until he was up for an hour to an hour and a half, put him down for a nap, and wake to feed. If the nap wasn't long enough to get him to 3 hours from last feed, we would try to prolong it to get him as close to 3 hours as we could.
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@cmomma17: don't wake him to eat at night! Then he'll get used to always eating a specific time and will be less likely to stretch out his sleep periods.
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@2PeasinaPod: that's another problem with mom/MIL, they don't get him to nap very well! And I can't say what the issue is there because I'm not there to witness it
I gave them all my tips and tricks but they don't listen. So most of LO's fussing is probably tiredness from poor napping. Argh. Frustrating ...
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@MamaMoose: don't know what I was thinking even suggesting that!
moment of weakness in my desperation to figure out the feeding schedule issue.
Do you think things will improve for us is we stick to a strict 730, 10, 1230, 3, 530 routine? I would even make sure to offer the boob at exactly those times on weekends so it all matches up for LO. The "hurry up, he's starving!!" thing is really getting to me. And DH is frustrated because he started leaving a 2 oz "just in case" bottle that gets gobbled up immediately. -
@cmomma17: yes I think it's much easier for caregivers to have a set schedule (or at least a set time between bottles) so that feeding is simply not an option unless its meal time. This will force them to try harder for naps and other ways of soothing your LO. It's up to you if you want to maintain the exact same schedule on the weekend. My LO is fed on demand on the weekends and she has no issue with that.
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@cmomma17: Do you know how long they're keeping him awake for? Or if he finally does sleep, are they letting him sleep past the feeding time?
This was definitely the hardest thing for us too. It was my dad and FIL though rather than my mom and MIL. My dad was pretty good at keeping to the schedule, but my FIL just wanted to stick a bottle in his mouth. Maybe have them try to put him down after he's been awake for a full hour and see if that helps. The longer they wait to put him down after he's tired, the less he's going to want to go down for them. And I know it's so much easier said than done b/c my FIL never listened to me!
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Xander's on a pretty set schedule for eating, though his naps are all over the place. Here's his schedule:
5:00 a.m. - I wake him (or he wakes up) and nurse. He's STTN so I'm pretty full at this point and this feed will last him 4 hours
9:00 - first bottle at daycare (5 oz)
12:00 p.m. - second bottle at daycare (5 oz)
3:00 - third bottle at daycare (5 oz)
6:00 - nurse at home
7:00 - bedtime!
9:00 - dreamfeed (nursing)At 12 weeks, they SHOULD be able to go 2.5 - 3 hours between feeds. If he can't go that long, it's possible he's not getting enough to eat. Xander needs 5 oz to go 3 hours. How much is in the bottles your LO is getting? Will he eat more if there are more in the bottles?
I agree with @MamaMoose's plan of starting at your 12:30 feed and figuring out the timing around that. Since 7:30 doesn't really work, maybe you can nurse him at 7:00 and then just have 1-2 extra ounces to top him off? And I wouldn't wake him in the middle of the night at set times - just continue those as usual, but always start the day at the same time.
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And maybe tell them "Do NOT give him a bottle except at these times, unless it's within 30 minutes of when he should have his next bottle." And I'd send a couple extra ounces (or one extra bottle) just in the case of growth spurts or something. Even though Xander always takes 3 bottles at daycare, we always send 4 JUST in case he goes through a growth spurt and ends up taking a bottle sooner than every 3 hours. But let your mom/MIL/whoever know to only use the extra bottle in EXTREME cases. They shouldn't resort to it willy-nilly.
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When my DS was 12 weeks...
7am feed
830 nap 1-1.5 hours
1030 feed and then play
12 nap 1-1.5 hours
130/2 feed
330 feed 1-1.5 hours
430/5 supper feed
530/6 catnap...45 mins
7/730 bath
730/8 bedtime feed -
@2PeasinaPod: I instructed everyone to put LO down for naps after he's been awake for 90 minutes (or before if he showed any tired signs). It's impossible to get everyone to listen! I have had in person discussions, I typed all the info up so they can refer to it as needed, etc. LO really fights sleep during the day so you have to work hard to put him down. Grandma and Nana just don't watch the clock or don't follow my steps for putting him down properly (swaddle, white noise, etc.). It's so frustrating!
Would you recommend telling them TO wake LO up if he's sleeping past a feeding time? Or tell them do NOT wake him up and let him sleep? I'm confused on what to do there.I do have them write down when he sleeps and eats in a book, I've just not had time to look it over in great detail yet.
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@Adira: I know I started the thread to talk about eating/feeding but now I'm re-thinking LO's sleep! I have been doing his bedtime routine (bath, lotion, pjs, swaddle, nurse) starting at 8 (sometimes a little later) for a few weeks now. I think I may need to bump it up a little earlier. Some evenings you can tell he's getting pretty exhausted by 8 pm and then he's super fussy during the bedtime routine. Depending on how long things take he goes to bed for the night anywhere between 830 - 10 pm.
I think I've just been selfish because I miss him while I'm at work and want to spend time with him in the evening! What do you think? -
@Adira: these ladies are always willy-nilly it seems! And my mom is the worst offender so that makes me feel guilty.
Does daycare send your unused bottles home and then they get used the next day? I am worried about wasting milk/depleting my stash!Of course now I'm also worried about him not eating enough and me not producing enough! We started with 3 oz bottles and then moved to 4oz. We think he would eat as many oz as he was given. He'd just spit up after. He can be quite the little piggy (on both bottle and boob).
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@matador84: Thanks for sharing your schedule. 3 hours really seems to be the norm. Now I'm worried about how we've been feeding every 2 - 2.5 hours. Am I chunking my baby up? I thought breastfed babies couldn't technically overeat but I'm not sure ....
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@cmomma17: I wouldn't have them wake him up to eat - I think it's okay if he just ends up shifting his schedule later. Do you have the flexibility (haha, yeah right) to take your lunch later if he ends up napping past his 10:00 feeding and doesn't eat until 11:00 or something? If you do, then you could have whoever's watching him call you so you know when to go do his lunch-time feed. OTHERWISE (this is probably more likely knowing your boss), you can just feed him at 12:30 regardless of when he last ate. He might not eat as much if he ate recently, but it should top him off so he can still go 2.5 hours and be back on track.
Xander used to stay up a lot later and his bedtime was closer to 9:00, but he naturally started falling asleep earlier on his own, and now he has a set(ish) bedtime of 7:30. It actually all depends on his naps though. For example, sometimes he'll nap in the car on the way home from daycare and will wake up around 6:30 to eat. On these days, he might not get to bed until 8:00. Yesterday though, he woke up from his last nap at 2:00 and REFUSED to take a later nap. He ended up going to bed at 6:00 (asleep by 6:30) because he was so tired.
I know what you mean about wanting them to stay up so you have more time with them though! When Xander went to bed at 6:00 last night, I was sad because I missed out on an hour+ time that I normally have with him. But I knew he needed the sleep. I think your bedtime will probably have to depend on his naps. If he wakes up from his last nap at 5:00, you probably want him in bed by 7:00. Though all babies are different. Xander doesn't get a lot of daytime sleep in (maybe 3 hours tops), so he needs all the sleep he can get at night. If your baby is getting plenty of naps during the day, he might not need as much sleep at night and so 8:30 bedtime might work for you!
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@cmomma17: My daycare will send any unused bottles home (sometimes I have to remind them). I then just send back the unused one + 3 new ones. I'll write on the old one "USE FIRST" since I don't want it to go bad.
I don't think babies can over-eat too much when they are on the boob, but they really have to work at it there, so it usually takes them longer to eat, so they get that full feeling and then they'll stop. Why keep working at it when you're full?? It's a lot easier taking a bottle though, so even though it's BM in the bottle, it's easy to over-eat. I'd maybe talk to your mom/MIL about paced feeding, to help mimic the act of breastfeeding when taking a bottle. That or have them stop him after every 0.5-1 ounce and burp him so that it takes longer. If they let him down a bottle in 5-10 minutes, he won't realize right away that he's full and will still think he's hungry and want more! Feeding by bottle should take at least 15 minutes I think.
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I found this helpful:
http://www.hellobee.com/2012/09/26/sleep-training-noelle-part-i/
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@Adira: sounds like my LO is pretty similar to Xander. He sleeps pretty poorly during the day, especially when I'm away at work. And you know from my posts about work that I do NOT have that lunch time flexibility!
I actually use the timer on my phone to make sure am away from my desk for exactly one hour and not a minute more (stresssss!). C (my LO) used to stay up much later but since I've been back to work I'm noticing him becoming much more tired in the evenings. I've been keeping him up until his bed/bathtime at 8, because it's too late in the day for a nap. I guess I was afraid if I put him to bed early he would wake up earlier, but I know he needs that sleep.
What would I do without your advice? Thank you!
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@Adira: yep. We number our bottles (1,2,3) using painters tape so it's re-usable (DH's brilliant idea). I guess we can leave emergency milk, but my mom especially will have to have a stern talking to about what circumstances to use it under!
Yesterday she used the "emergency" 2 oz early in the day - and wasn't going to tell me about it! She said "Don't get mad but ..." I told her she HAS to tell me how much he eats and when every day! You can't "hide" that you gave him a bottle!
I emailed a kellymom link about paced feeding to everyone as well - DH is probably the only one who doesn't do that! -
@cmomma17: Yeah, I've noticed Xander naps better on the weekends too! I think it's probably because I actually put him down for his naps whereas at daycare, they just let him stay up until he passes out from sheer exhaustion! Now that it's Friday, you should try just putting him to bed earlier and see what happens! If he does end up waking up early, at least it's a weekend and now you know! I try to do all my experiments with Xander on weekends in case they don't go well.
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@cmomma17: We don't have a set schedule, other then she eats every 3 hours. So if she wakes at up 5 and nurses, I tell day care first bottle at 8, and then they do the other 2 bottles every 3 hours. I send 4 bottles but they really only need 3. But one day this week she was really hungry and with the timing, she drank all 4.
How often does he eat on the weekends? Whatever he does on the weekends, I would make them do during the week.
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@cmomma17: haha, I don't see how your mom could hide that from you! Don't you collect (or at least see) all the bottles at the end of the day? But definitely make sure she lets you know how much he eats and when. Some babies will eat different amounts during the day. Like I think @Smurfette's baby used to drink less in her morning bottle and then more in the later ones. Not sure if that's still the case or not. Xander always eats 5 oz in every bottle, though I'm pretty sure he gets more from the boob first thing in the morning because he can always go 4 hours that first feeding and only 3 hours afterwards.
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@Freckles: that link was great, thanks!
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@Adira: testing things out on the weekends is great advice too! I'll definitely try an earlier bedtime tonight and see what happens!
My mom is a little crazy. I saw the empty bottles by the sink and said "did he have both of these already?" and she's all "..don't be mad ..." She just didn't write it down in our book. Crazy lady.
I think C gets more from me in the AM too, so DH wants our moms to save the "emergency" bottle for the afternoons. C might actually be able to go longer after his morning nursing sessions, but I try to squeeze in one more session before I head out the door to work. So that's more me making him eat than him being really hungry.
It's so complicated! -
@Smurfette: Daycare workers are probably great at that, but I think our moms are not doing a good job of tracking how long it has been. So they end up feeding way too soon every time. Then he's way hungry later in the day and "starving" by the time I get off work. We had been telling them "C last ate at ___, try to feed him around ___" but I think more structured times might work better for everyone.
I'm pretty sure it's consistently 9 feedings on the weekends. I'll check my ipad app to be sure.
Thanks for your input! -
@cmomma17: I didn't know Xander could go 4 hours after his first morning feed until one weekend, he was all cool and relaxed and wasn't hungry until 4 hours later! I was SHOCKED. Then he did it again the next day. I started telling daycare that he ate 30 minutes later than he actually did so he'd eat 3.5 hours later and every 3 hours after that. And now I tell them he eats a whole hour after he actually does, so he goes 4 hours and then 3. He's apparently totally fine with this new schedule!
Your mom sounds a little crazy, haha. Maybe you can do a bottle boot camp over the weekend to figure out exactly how much he really needs and how often he really needs to eat. Feed him the bottles when you want your mom/MIL to and how much you want them to eat. Then you can just leave that EXACT amount for them and no extra and be like "this is all there is, so MAKE IT LAST." Maybe add an extra 0.5 ounce to each bottle as a little top off so that you KNOW he should be able to last 2.5 hours between feeds of whatever. Then just tell them "this is the schedule - don't f it up."?
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at 12 weeks my son was still nursing every 2 hours so I don't think going 2-2.5 hours is wrong. Since you nurse at 12:30, I would let them know they are not to feed your LO past 11 am (or whatever time you think) so he'll be hungry for his 12:30 nursing session.
Do you usually nurse right before he goes to who evers house? You said around 7:30 usually? Either nurse right before you leave or send a bottle ready. Then have two more bottles ready. He can have one mid morning but not past the time you set and one mid afternoon. I would think that should put him only going 3 hours between bottles. I guess an exampe would be:
7 am nurse or bottle???
9:30-10 am: bottle
12:30: nurse
2:30-3: bottle
5: nurseDo they know how to bottle feed a breastfed baby? You should use slow flow nipple and they shouldn't rush it so baby isn't drinking too much before he knows he's had enough.
http://kellymom.com/bf/pumpingmoms/feeding-tools/bottle-feeding/
Good luck! I feel so bad that you are dealing with so much! Hang in there.
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oh and how much are they feeding him now in each bottle? My son still, at 9 months, has never drank more than 4 ounces. Usually it's 3-4 ounces. breast fed babies don't need more ounces the older they get.
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@mrskc: Wait, really?? They don't need more ounces the older they get?? So if Xander takes 5 oz every 3 hours now (at 4 months), he'll continue to do so FOREVAH???
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@cmomma17: 9 feedings seem like a like to me. I agree with @Adira: see this weekend how much he needs and only leave that much.
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@mrskc: Oh, is it because at some point, you start giving them solids to make up the difference?
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@Adira: yes! I read it in my breastfeeding book. So a one month old who drinks 25 ounces a day will continue to do so until the amount starts to decrease when solids are introduced. Your milk changes as your baby gets older to adapt to them growing! It's really amazing.
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@mrskc: That's FANTASTIC! And awesome news because I've been JUST barely able to keep up with Xander's intake (5 oz every 3 hours) and have been scared that if he ever wanted more, I wouldn't be able to provide it! I'm relieved to know that that's unlikely to happen!!! Thanks for the info!!
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@cmomma17: I know people always say to never wake a sleeping baby, and we didn't at first. We found that he got totally thrown off of his schedule though if we let him go too long. We never let him go longer than 4 hours between feedings. So if he ate at say 7:30, but didn't go down for some reason until 10 and was still sleeping at 11:30, we would wake him up at 11:30 to eat at 3-4 months.
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@Adira: no problem! That should take some pressure off!
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@2PeasinaPod: I had to wake him up at lunchtime today. Can't help it though, mama is only home from 1215-1245. He had just gone down not too long before I arrived
I gave them all my tips and tricks but they don't listen. So most of LO's fussing is probably tiredness from poor napping. Argh. Frustrating ...
moment of weakness in my desperation to figure out the feeding schedule issue.
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