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@Maysprout: I wouldn't ever judge an entire group. I don't even know who was chanting that? But if it was a sect of a larger group, then the larger group needs to speak out against it. What that done? Its a completely unacceptable thing to chant and shouldn't be tolerated. What about all of the recent, daily, targeted shooting of cops? Is anyone speaking out against that?
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@agold: I'm quite confused about what you're talking about, it's all over the news, social media, jeesh around here random strangers talking. I've not heard of any domestic terrorism supporters, or people who don't think it's terrible and horrible. I'm sure there are supporters and I'm sure they've turned up at some rally but I don't think it's any main line opinion in any community and am really confused how you're coming up with that idea or that no ones talking about it.
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@Maysprout: I think its great people are talking about it around you! No one here on HB seems to be talking about it but that's alright and expected. Although somewhere someone mentioned that all Christians need to change their hearts. That's really quite confusing to me. So I'm sorry to add to any more confusion. It seems like a certain group of people are all getting the idea that its a great time to start ambushing and shooting cops. I'd really half love for all the cops in this nation to seize their service for a while.
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@agold: I'm confused - what aren't people on HB talking about?
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@agold: what do you mean to that's alright and expected? I started a thread after sandy hook and was scolded by some people, I don't think any one supported that guy.
And i hope no ones promoting hurting cops, and if so theyll hopefully be arrested, I've not seen anyone promoting that idea.
But police have a lot of power in this country and there's no doubt in my mind or others that there need to be more checks and balances and bad cops need to be more quickly fired. -
@Maysprout: Alls I was saying is, you gotta look to yourself for the answer to the problem before you look to others. I live in a pretty conservative place, and it seems like typically they identify the problem as being with people outside of their community: "people need Jesus" is something I see on FB all the time, and wonder what it really means. Do they mean that non-Christians need to be saved (implying that values like community, compassion, grace, etc., are the exclusive domain of the religious)? Do they believe Church needs a fresh infusion of Jesus? They're going to have a lot more success with the former (converting others) if they focus on the latter (managing themselves and being a model of behavior). This is basic self-help talk-- you can't change others, only yourself, and it applies to communities as much as it does individuals.
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@agold: Yeah...I didn't say that. I just said that the best course of action was for Christians to look at themselves as the source of the solution instead of looking to others to start the process of solving the problem. I simply mean that in the Christian community there is a lot of work to be done. I mean, didn't Jesus say it himself--pull the log out of your own eye before you start yanking splinters out of everyone else's? I'm not comfortable with people claiming that the values needed to solve this problem (cooperation, empathy, etc.) are the exclusive property of Christians. I'm saying this as a baptized now ex-Christian.
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: All parts of Jesus are needed, of course. I am not talking about man's frail attempt at Christianity or picking and choosing elements to suit a person/group's particular needs but I simply mean the teaching and, most importantly, the saving grace of Jesus. "Just Jesus" (if you will.) I say this as a person who needs Jesus just as much as anyone else.
And I am not saying that the values of Christians are needed for this (or any) situation but the values of Jesus. I am very aware that people twist words and biblical passages to meet their own needs. And I am not saying that I have an answer, because I don't, but I believe that in all experiences we (as humans) inherently need Him.
What I was voicing is that these recent events have acted as a reminder of how much we/I need Him, daily. It's not an excuse to express entitlement or exclusivity.
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@simplyfelicity: I appreciate your response. Yesterday was a crappy day for me personally so I might have been a little crabby! I had some time to think it over. I think what I really meant was that everyone can think about how they contribute to the problem and handle their part. I personally think the Dallas shooter might have been suffering from PTSD. I feel like that is an overlooked part of this. It is hard for me to imagine a veteran having such bad feelings for a police officer when they have had such similar life experiences. Perhaps his defensiveness about racial tension has its source there, or grew out of disenfranchisement from that experience. So for me, someone who has PTSD and easy access to guns is a scary thought. And as much as I agree that we need compassion, grace, etc....I wonder where that stuff is for people on the fringe of society? Where is empathy for people who don't seem to deserve it? What does that look like on an institutional level? Just going to a counselor for PPD costs me 100 dollars per visit and I had to have the mental stability to seek counseling out on my own. I don't know how someone who has mental health issues due to possible PTSD and institutionalized racism can break out of that pattern to even reach out for help. I will tell you personally that I think it will take change on the government level. But (IMO) most Christians I know generally oppose the entitlements that would provide for someone like a shooter. Lemme say again, I live in the deep south. Political conservativism, racism, and religious conservativism go hand in hand here...it is hard for me not to make broad judgements on this issue because I see it all the time. If we just label this guy a "cop killer" we miss out on the chance to fix the problem we need to address.
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@simplyfelicity: Personally, I find a statement like we as humans all need Jesus, pretty offensive. I think it says that Christians and those who follow Jesus' teachings are inherently better than those who are part of another religion or simply don't subscribe to Christianity. I'm an atheist who is a kind, generous, caring, and moral person. I don't need Jesus to be any of those things and I don't believe anyone else does either. By saying that, it pushes this idea that one group has the "right answer" and everyone else needs to fall in line with that answer to make change. Personally, I think that message of exclusivity is the exact opposite sentiment that our country needs at a time like this, when we should be opening our arms to people of every race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. no matter how they differ from ourselves.
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: I'm glad you brought up the PTSD issue. I think mental health in our country is grossly overlooked and grossly underfunded! Chief Brown spoke to this as well.
I can't speak to whether PTSD was at play here (but I can see that it's a likely issue). How was that being handled? Were family and friends actually acknowledging it and trying to help this man? It's easy to say it after he's dead, but were they actually trying to help?
Awareness is so important for EVERYONE. To notice behaviors in ourselves and the people that we love and then to take action. I don't see a lot of that. And it's sad. There is also the element of not being able to help someone that doesn't want to be helped. But should there be mandatory counseling for all military personnel returning from war? Upon termination of service? I'm not sure what the right answer but it feels like making it mandatory is the only option we have anymore.
Not to keep mentioning Chief Brown, but he also addressed this with his own staff. He said he was close to making counseling MANDATORY for his staff. He needs them stable to do their jobs. His staff doesn't recognize the impacts of the trauma they have been part of. That's huge in my mind. If he follows through on his words and starts mandating counseling.
As a society we need to better manage mental health.period! I don't know how we get there or what the end result is, but it's a widespread problem that covers all levels of diversity.
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@MamaG: it is terrifying to me that we are doing this race war thing when it could be a mental health issue. One thing that literally no one says about mass shootings is that it is overwhelmingly men who do this. If you pinned me to a wall and forced me to give my honest opinion, it is toxic masculinity and all that entails (war, homophobia, detachment from feelings, emotional dissociation) that is the root of all these violent episodes. Let me clarify I'm not saying "all men," I'm talking about a specific expression of masculinity that prevents men from asking for help, owning their feelings, or even expressing grief. I have two boys so this sort of thing is so personal for me.
ETA: not saying institutional racism is not a thing but this shooter was probably experiencing intersectional issues (black, male, veteran) and it isn't right to ignore the others in preference for one.
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Good article about the shooter and PTSD. This guy had a lot of red flags and bizarre behavior
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@Mrs. Sketchbook: totally think quality mental health is the root of all solutions. There is all this talk about gun reform, education reform, health reform ...but I think proper mental health treatment need to be studied and pinned down. Indisputable aggregated data and research that says here are long term 'successful' treatments and this is how it is implemented. Then get it done. This is more important for the future but such a 'soft' science nobody can tackle it.
ETA: faith is a huge part of the answer for many people -
@twodoghouse: I apologize for offending you. That is never my objective on here ( to offend anyone.) And I actually agree with you on a few points.
I am not saying that Christians are inherently better (we absolutely aren't) and I agree that being kind, generous, and caring are not exclusive to Christians. In essence, I am not saying that "Christians are good," but that "God is good." I simply believe that God has extended a gift to all and some will accept it and some won't. A gift says nothing about the recipient but everything about the giver.
I agree that now is a time to love people no matter how different they are from ourselves. And when I say that Jesus is inherently good I am also talking about the example of Jesus who
loved the Samaritan woman even though He was a Jew, served the widows and orphans and, basically, served/loved those marginalized in society. Jesus taught us to love our "enemies."While I realize that there are certain things in regards to this that we may not see eye-to-eye on, I hope the meaning I was trying to convey has been clarified. Offending anyone is the least of my intentions.
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He apparently was dishonorably discharged from the military - I'm not sure you can access even mental health resources then, which is a shame since he obv needed them, and then rejected from black activist groups. http://www.bet.com/news/national/2016/07/11/dallas-shooter--here-s-why-micah-xavier-johnson-was-rejected-fro.html
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@simplyfelicity: Thanks for clarifying. I really appreciate it!
This is such a painful time in our country. I guess I just want to continue speaking words of inclusion and not exclusion. I'm glad that we are on the same page, even though we obviously differ a lot on the religion thing.
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@simplyfelicity: I can only speak from my own experience, but I have had very little success managing my own mental health issues with Christian doctrine. When whe I had mental issues surrounding PPD my Christians friends were just like "pray harder....this is a cross to bear....Jesus wants this for you..." etc. etc. It was then that I started to question whether or not the Christian solution to all problems is the solution for everyone. And from there it all unraveled for me. I honestly think that if Christians believe their message can help anyone, they need to start listening, talk less, and get more specific about what practical steps they can take to reflect their love of Christ. Faith alone will not solve this. Remember that dylann roof shot 9 African Americans in their own church. So their Christianity did not save them from tremendous pain. Although it may have made it easier for them to forgive. There are lots of very religious African Americans. They are sill the victims of institutional racism. The solution for them might be to pray harder, lean more on Jesus. But the rest of Christianity needs to start listening harder.
This is such a painful time in our country. I guess I just want to continue speaking words of inclusion and not exclusion. I'm glad that we are on the same page, even though we obviously differ a lot on the religion thing.
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