squash / 13764 posts
@Adira: I would try that! Maybe more bottles will keep him "busier", so to speak.
pomegranate / 3398 posts
@Adira: Like I said I know it is different and you know your child better than anyone else. Hopefully you'll figure it out sooner rather than later.
blogger / watermelon / 14218 posts
Just wanted to chime in that he could be hungry or looking to comfort nurse, so an extra bottle might help, unless you're worried about his weight. My kids were chunksters so I obviously never withheld extra milk Haha. I just fed them whenever they were fussy. When he's with you he's probably comforted and distracted enough to not be as fussy.. But with others he might need a different source of comfort.
nectarine / 2667 posts
@Adira: I think he's looking for comfort and is not actually hungry. If it were me, I would ask daycare what they are doing to comfort him (pacifier, cuddles, etc). Decide if you've got any suggestions for them. I would also send more bottles, in smaller sizes, so he can eat more frequently. Keeping a stash of purées at daycare for "snacks" is a good idea, too. F was eating a small jar of purée at "lunch" every day at 6.5-7 months.
apricot / 338 posts
One of my friends when she first started daycare at 6 mo, she spent 2 whole days watching her child at center and getting into a routine. I know xander has been going a few months now but still might be worth it if you can get the time off.
My lo gets about 80/20 bm and formula most days. I would do pp suggestion of smaller bottles, my lo eats 4oz bottle every 2.5 hrs during day and cluster feeds in eve, total for the day is between 32- 36 oz.
clementine / 918 posts
My LO is younger than yours and isn't in daycare so I don't know if it helps, but L likes to comfort nurse when he's over-stimulated. I don't know if there's anything you can do to help with over-stimulation but maybe it's worth finding out if his environment or toys are very different from home.
pear / 1616 posts
if they were doing everything they could to comfort him and nothing else was helping, i'd just send more milk. even if it's just a couple oz. he may not be starving, but it may just comfort him. i always worry that my LO is crying/fussing at daycare and i can't do anything about it. so if i knew she was having trouble, id do whatever it takes to make her happier, even if its feeding a couple more oz a day.
grapefruit / 4671 posts
Honestly I would just send more milk. I don't see the point in withholding it. If he isn't hungry then he won't eat!
apricot / 373 posts
I'd try sending a snack bottle of 1-2 ounces for a couple of days to see how it goes. I know that my kid wants to eat more from the bottle when I am not around. I'd much rather have him eat a little bit more than normal than be upset.
pear / 1563 posts
My LO is only on her fourth week away from me, but she takes four bottles/day on her three daycare days, and three bottles/day on the two days she is with her grandmas. Initially this meant more ounces on daycare days, but now I just parse her 11 ounces across either three or four bottles. I chalk the need for four up to the unfamiliar surroundings and caregivers, plus like PP said, it gives her something to do/comfort. Worth a shot IMO. I really feel your pain on keeping up with milk needs, it's so tough.
apricot / 303 posts
My LO is 6.5 months and can take 5-7 oz. breastmilk in a bottle. Why don't you try allowing them to feed him more (even if you have to supplement) and see how it goes? If he continues to cry then you know that it's a different issue. If he stops crying then he was likely just hungry! My LO stops eating when she's full so I don't think you need to worry about that.
coconut / 8475 posts
I get that he IS NOT hungry, but the bottom line is this:
You aren't there to soothe him and food does. So, send it to soothe him even if you're dead-set on the fact that he isn't hungry (& I agree with you on that based on your tellings).
Either some formula or some solids or a small bottle of BM (do you have any in your freezer?)
wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts
Sounds like most people agree I should send more milk even though he's not hungry. I'm probably being stubborn, but I don't want to supplement with formula when I know he's not hungry and since I am barely able to keep up with what he currently drinks (which I feel is already more than he needs), I guess maybe I'll try redistributing his normal amount over more bottles so they can give him a bottle more often...
Unfortunately, the daycare teachers do NOT do paced feedings and I think at this age, they often let the baby hold the bottle himself and feed himself, so Xander can drink 5oz in about 5 minutes, so he doesn't even realize he's full by the time he's finished - so the statement that he won't eat if he's not hungry doesn't always work, since he often doesn't realize he's not hungry until after he's finished eating.
*sigh* I wish this wasn't so hard.
squash / 13764 posts
@Adira: hugs! I don't blame you for not wanting to supplement when you know he's getting enough breastmilk...try the smaller bottles more often and see if that helps!
wonderful clementine / 24134 posts
@Adira: I agree. We dealt with the same issue at this point with her drinking really fast.
If you don't want him to feed himself, then stand up for what you want and tell them that you expect someone to be holding him and feeding him and that a bottle should last 10 minutes or more and they should stop half way.
I know you said he just started solids, but hopefully this is a short term issue that will resolve when he's eating more foods.
blogger / watermelon / 14218 posts
@Adira: you are being stubborn, but that's totally ok You just need to figure out a solution that you feel ok with, and that sometimes takes time and creativity!! I do this all the time. Sometimes I end up backing down with my stubbornness (after trying EVERYTHING else!!), and sometimes I find a different solution that works. Nothing wrong with being stubborn
GOLD / wonderful coconut / 33402 posts
@Adira: Hugs!! If you don't want to send more milk, then don't.
I will say that maybe Xander does want to eat more just cause most BF don't increase the amounts doesn't mean he won't. Could you do a weighted feed this weekend to see if he is eating more? I know my milk doesn't have more fat on it when it sits then it did two months ago but maybe that is me. I guess my body wants to hold onto its fat
I would try sending solids. This way if they think he is hungry and he won't eat them, they might realize it is something else.
Talk to them tonight about trying a pacifier, giving the blanket, cuddling with him, playing, etc and see if that helps calm him down. Maybe it is the teething too. Those teeth are a bitch!
honeydew / 7091 posts
I'm so sorry, it's so rough having to be away from our babies and try to decide what's really best for them.
This is the same thing DH does. Whenever he watches DD while I'm working late or whatever, any time she fusses he just gives her a bottle. One night, in the span of 3 hours, he had fed her 24 oz?!?! Good grief... Granted, it's formula, so it's a much different scenario to you not being able to produce the extra breast milk to send every day.
The only advice I have would be to listen to your gut. YOU're his mom, so you know what's best!
Maybe you could double the purees you're sending, and have them feed him that when he gets fussy? I kind of think it's a little crazy they can't calm him. It would make me wonder if they're not really trying *that* hard - it's not that difficult to distract a baby!
wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts
@hilsy85: Yeah, I'll have to talk to them tomorrow and let them know my plan. I'm afraid if I send smaller bottles and expect Hubs to tell them, they won't get the message, haha!
@T.H.O.U.: Yeah, I guess I need to talk to them again about the feeding. The one time I observed him being given a bottle, it did take about 20 minutes and the woman stopped every so often to burp him, but that was a couple months ago and that teacher is gone now. I've seen these current teachers give other babies bottles to feed themselves, so I just suspect that's what they are doing with Xander. I'll have to figure it out.
And I agree! I really hope once he's eating more solids, this issue will go away. EXCEPT that if the issue is just him missing me, I'm not sure how eating more will help, you know?
@mrs. wagon: haha, thanks for the validation! I'm definitely being stubborn, but I do need to figure out something because I don't want poor Xander to be miserable. I DO think he tends to be less fussy at the end of the week though because he's used to being there. It's Mondays and Tuesdays that tend to be harder for him!
wonderful clementine / 24134 posts
@Adira: Yes, but it sounds like its more then him missing you, but needing a distraction. So for us, when she was getting 3 bottles a day PLUS 2 feedings a day, that was quite a bit of time she was with a daycare worker engaged in an activity (not just free play).
Besides just basic baby care, are there activities for the babies? Do they go on buggy rides? Do they get to go outside? Do they do sensory play?
wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts
@Smurfette: If anything, I feel like Xander has been eating LESS when he's home with me. Over the past couple weekends, he's been on the boob even less time than he used to, will go longer between feeds, and I've even had to pump in between because he's not emptying me! So I really do feel like he's not eating more and doesn't need more! I won't be able to do a weighted feed this weekend though because all the LCs I know only work during the week. But maybe I can go again on my next off-Friday.
And yes! Teeth suck! haha. I'm going to send them some infant tylenol so hopefully if he's just in pain, they can give him some of that and it will help. I'm also going to send an A&A blanket (maybe I'll sleep with it first so it smells like me) and hopefully that will help.
@swurlygurl: I'm actually not sending any purees yet. He JUST started eating solids this past weekend (as in, he'd let me spoon them into his mouth while it all dribbled down his chin). I wanted to get more consistent with him at home before I started sending them to daycare with him.
But I agree - I find it very frustrating that they can't seem to calm him down - he's not THAT hard to deal with. Or maybe he's just an angel baby for me and he's horrible for everyone else?? I don't know! I just know that an hour after eating 5oz, there's NO WAY he's hungry, you know??
wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts
@T.H.O.U.: Ahh, I see what you're saying - eating more will just take up more of his time so he'll be distracted. They do have lots of toys and stuff there, but I'm honestly not sure how the teachers are with him. I knew the old teacher would do lots of different activities with them because she was always doing little art projects with them, and she'd take them outside for walks and stuff, and during the summer they had little pools outside and she'd dip their feet in and play with them. They also have a bunch of activity mats, toys, exersaucers, etc. Plus the old teacher used to just spend a lot of time holding Xander because he LOVED her. Now that she's gone, I don't know as much about what they do with him. I get the impression that one of his current teachers doesn't actually spend a lot of time holding the babies, so maybe he's not being held as much as he's used to. I probably need to ask what they are doing with him all day since they're not as good about offering up that information as the old teacher was. Ugh! I miss her!!!
GOLD / squash / 13576 posts
I agree with @T.H.O.U. Talk to your daycare providers and show them what your LO likes to do for fun. Like is there a particular toy he likes, or book, etc?
GOLD / squash / 13576 posts
@Adira: I think unfortunately with so many babies in a class, it's hard for them to hold all the LOs. Maybe you need to look for a daycare with a lower child to teacher ratio so your LO can get more individualized attention.
wonderful clementine / 24134 posts
@Adira: Yes, since you aren't wanting to offer more food, I would think about asking what the day routine looks like. Do they sing songs? Ask so you can sing them to him at home too. Do they read books? Is there a favorite he likes? You should be getting some of that information and hopefully they are doing more with them even now the good teacher is gone.
GOLD / wonderful coconut / 33402 posts
@Adira: Do they not give you a report as to what they did for the day? We have lesson plans every day, so it lists what song they sang, book they read, life skill they learned (held their own bottled), etc. So it gives a little more detail as to what they do all day.
It is hard to get information out of the teachers sometimes. I pick her up and they are like she had a great day. Then the next morning that teacher tells me she was fussy.
I would find if one teacher does more with him. I know the teacher in the morning, tends to spend more time with R, bottles, solids, naps, etc.
Maybe one teacher giving him more attention would help. If it between 2 or 3 all day, he might be getting confused, if he was used to the gone teacher being with him all day. Does that make sense?
cantaloupe / 6206 posts
Just wanted to pipe in I also just talked to my LC about our supply issues (ie not keeping up with what she's drinking), and she also recommended a paced feed... LO was drinking 4oz in 4 minutes and the LC said that just like with adults, if she's drinking too quickly, her brain doesn't have time to catch up to her stomach and tell her she's full. Of course if she is "really" still hungry, we'll send more milk, but we want to make sure that's what's going on.
Here is what she recommended: stop a few times during the bottle to burp (which it sounds like you already try to ask them to do), and make sure Xander is sitting upright with the bottle mostly *horizontal* during the feed. You basically want to imitate nursing as best you can, ie he has to actively suck to get milk out, NOT have the milk dribbling passively into his mouth (as happens if the bottle is totally vertical). Then he can take breaks, catch his breath, and continue sucking when he's ready. It's a bit tricky because the nipple needs to be filled with milk so he doesn't swallow air, but should be just at the right angle that it's full but not dripping. Does that make sense?
We are lucky that our daycare is game for doing things this way and it took her 18 mins to drink 4oz the 3rd time they tried last Friday... we'll see how it goes today.
Hope this helps!
wonderful grape / 20453 posts
"I find it hard to believe he's ONLY hungry in the company of other people and suddenly loses his appetite when I'm around. RIGHT? "
I don't have much experience with breastmilk since mine gets thawed bottles on weekends, but I will say that this statement is VERY true for us. I find that E often doesn't eat as well for me on the weekends as she does for our daycare lady during the day. She gets too excited and wants to play with me and sometimes just will not finish eating unless I hand her to Dh and walk away. And sometimes he has this issue, too! But then she gets hungry earlier b/c she didn't finish her bottle. Like it just took the edge off
grapefruit / 4235 posts
@Adira: I had to bump L up to 5 oz bottles (from 4 oz) right before he started eating solids at daycare. It sucked - esp. since I had to thaw out some BM every day but once I sent solids to daycare with him, he tapered back down.
wonderful clementine / 24134 posts
@Adira: Thats another good question. Are you using the slowest flow (newborn) nipples on the bottles?
grapefruit / 4442 posts
I just wanted to give lots of hugs, I'm going through something similar.
your LO might find comfort in suckling, I would suggest a pacifier like the other bees said and a lovey with your scent on it. Also can the teacher baby wear him? Maybe he needs to be close to someone and the movement will help him settle down.
grapefruit / 4923 posts
i second the suggestions about trying something comforting, like a pacifier or lovey or whatever else he might like to snuggle with.
that being said, we went through something similar (although not the same) and i did change his bottle schedule and amounts. around 4 months, they wanted to switch to a 3-hour schedule from his 4-hour schedule. i knew he could go 4 hours, but because he was not getting good naps at daycare, i think the longer time and burning more calories meant that he needed to be fed more often. my initial reflex was to resist, but i quickly realized that *i* was holding onto the 4-hour eating schedule, and the reality was that LO needed something different.
then a couple of months later, they asked me to increase his bottle amount. again, i was hesitant because i was already dipping into my freezer stash to cover what he ate during the day. but i do think that him being up for longer and becoming more mobile at 5 to 6 months of age increased his appetite, so i added an ounce to each bottle.
then they asked me to increase it again. i was like gah if you worked on putting him down for naps, he wouldn't be moving around every second of the day and wouldn't need all this milk! but i realized i was again, being more focused on what i wanted rather than accepting that the reality that LO was, for better or worse, not napping and needed more milk to sustain. so i increased his bottle amounts again--i usually do 6 oz of breastmilk with 1 oz of formula. no pressure to pump more, and i still feel like he's getting mostly breastmilk.
sorry for the novel just wanted to share what happened with us.
kiwi / 550 posts
Speaking as a caregiver to babies (nanny) I don't think you're crazy or stubborn! At 6 months being hungry an hour after 5oz seems out of the ordinary. While lots of things can play into an increase in eating (teething, wonder week, etc) this sounds like a long term issue with the caretakers.
Yes, your baby is a different person with you than with other people. He is easily contented (less need for comfort nursing), excited to be with you (too distracted to eat), And you know his communication best (knowing hunger from any other reason for his crying.) If he isn't getting one on one attention even when he is eating then he is going to be fussy for a whole host of reasons. Overstimulation, boredom...and those are going to be difficult to differentiate from hunger for someone who maybe is looking for the fastest or easiest solution.
That being said in your situation I would try to split his bottles so he gets them more often. His schedule might need to be different then at home and they should have valuable input but I'd still be going crazy mama bear up in that place. Talk to them about his activities and their soothing methods. Tell them what they need to offer before offering food. Tylenol in certain cases. A mommy scented lovey, blanket, pacifier are all great to try. Work them into home life too for consistency.
The breast milk is probably comforting him but if you're going to end up having to offer formula then I feel like the benefit is going to be lost. Sometimes babies need to fuss and placating with food might not be a beneficial habit to start if you can help it.
wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts
@Smurfette: They recently changed their infant sheet and it now has a place for them to fill out what he did during the day. The old teacher was good about writing down the different activities, but since she's been gone, this section has been left blank.
And yes, it definitely makes sense what you're saying about the multiple teachers. They just hired a new woman to replace the old teacher, so I'm wondering if maybe once she's up to speed if she'll be the primary care taker for Xander (and the other little infants) just like the old teacher was. Maybe that would help Xander...
@JoJoGirl: Your description definitely makes sense. I'll have to talk to the teachers about paced feeding (AGAIN, grrr) and maybe it will help if they are feeding him more slowly - then he'll get more one-on-one time during his feedings and maybe won't be as fussy in between!
@blackbird: I definitely understand what you're saying about your LO getting excited being with you and just wanting to play, and Xander seems like that too, except that when he's with me, he can often go even LONGER between feeds than he does at daycare. It's POSSIBLE he's getting more since I'm just nursing him when we are together, but he drinks for such a short period of time and I often don't feel empty after that I really don't think he's actually drinking more. So I don't get it, haha.
@T.H.O.U.: Good question! I AM using the slowest flow nipples for my bottles. I even recently bought new ones because I discovered that my old slow flow didn't seem very slow anymore!
@bunnylove08: He definitely has pacifiers there but I'll have to ask them if they are actually using them. Usually that works great for me when he's fussy and I know he's not hungry, but I don't know what they are doing there, haha. And I'll send an A&A blanket with him since that's what he snuggles with at home, though he usually just uses it to sleep, so I'm not sure if he'll find it comforting or not when he's not tired.
@edelweiss: Thanks for sharing your experience! I definitely hear you on the "if you worked on putting him down for naps, he wouldn't be moving around every second of the day and wouldn't need all this milk!" part! I think a lot of the times when he's fussy, he's actually just overtired, but if he doesn't go to sleep easily, they just resort to the bottle instead! But on Monday when he was apparently REALLY fussy, he had actually gotten some really good naps in, so I know that wasn't the issue.
wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts
@Fronkinzankinsbride: Thank you so much for your insight as a nanny!! I think my biggest issue is THESE caregivers. The old teacher that isn't there anymore either didn't have these problems, or she was able to figure out what to do on her own, because she didn't complain to me all the time about me needing to put more in his bottles or pressure me to start solids. Plus he always seemed soooooo happy just being in her presence, so I think they had figured out what worked together. Now that she's gone, there's the other teachers that really didn't spend AS MUCH time with him who are now trying to take care of him and they're frustrated because they don't know what to do.
It sounds like maybe spreading his milk out over more bottles is an overwhelming suggestion, so I should definitely try that. I'll also need to figure out if they offering a pacifier, giving him his blanket, and giving him enough snuggles. When I was talking to the teacher about it on Monday, one of the things she said was "The problem with breastfed babies is they become too attached" or something like that. She's fairly anti-breastfeeding (or at least EBF) and I've heard from other moms that she doesn't spend a lot of time holding the babies, so I'm thinking maybe Xander's feeling neglected. *sigh*
Hopefully reminding them about his pacifiers, bringing in a blanket from home, and giving them suggestions on snuggling or different ways to play with him will help, along with changing up the bottles.
I think part of my fear (and maybe I'm crazy because he's just a baby) is giving in to him getting a bottle whenever he's upset is that I'm worried about creating that sort of relationship for him with food. I've been overweight my whole life and use food for comfort and I don't want to instill that in him. But maybe as a baby that's not really something to worry about?
GOLD / wonderful coconut / 33402 posts
@Adira: Have you thought about meeting with the director? It doesn't sound like you are very happy with these new teachers. I really don't like her attitude about BF. Whether that is her option or not, she shouldn't be sharing it.
wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts
@Smurfette: I've thought about it, but I haven't yet. But maybe I should! I agree that this woman really shouldn't be badmouthing BFing to me. She's also the one that got defensive when I asked what had happened to the old teacher. Ugh! Maybe I'll hope she'll leave soon since daycares have such high turnover, haha.
grapefruit / 4717 posts
No major advice that others haven't already given, but just wanted to say that I totally empathize. My daycare also didn't understand that an EBF baby is different that FF. They even asked me "when are you going to switch to formula." My answer: never. I think they were really surprised and that it is apparently way outside of normal to have an EBF baby at daycare. They also kept giving him way more per bottle than my husband would if he were caring for LO all day instead. (Which he has to do every 3rd weekend b/c of my job.)
I happened to arrive to pick him up once and he was on a Boppy on the floor and was holding his own bottle, and when I asked them about it, they said that someone usually holds him and paces his feeding. I reiterated how important that was to me so he doesn't gulp the whole bottle in 5 min. Luckily they listened.
For what it's worth, my LO was eating 3 6-oz bottles per day from about 4 months - 6 or 7 months. He finally started enjoying solids around 7-8 months and then started dropping down to more like 5 oz x 3 then 4 oz x 3. My daycare people also suggested that we add rice cereal to his bottle at 4 months! WHAT?? I refused based on all the reasons you've already said. I could barely keep up with his needs and ended up adding a 4th pump session before I went to bed every night just so I'd have enough for the following day -- living bottle to bottle. It all worked out in the end. He has never had a drop of formula and is almost 15 months old.
I def. agree with talking to the director and trying everything suggested above. Know that you're not alone and that I've (and clearly others have) been there too.
Good luck and please let us know what happens.
wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts
@pregnantbee: Thanks for sharing your experience! I'm hoping that once Xander is eating more solids, maybe this will be less of an issue! Or maybe spreading his bottles out more over the day will help too. It's just so hard to figure out what's going on when he's completely different when he's with me than he is when he's there! Thankfully this baby phase doesn't last very long and soon enough he'll be eating normal meals and I won't be feeling the pressure to provide more BM than I can pump!
grapefruit / 4717 posts
@Adira: Of course. Just stay strong. Try switching things up a little. Proceed with solids at the pace YOU and Xander feel comfortable with, and remember that they don't really need to have anything except BM before 1. We introduced solids really slowly here, and he pretty much eats anything now. I had wanted to do BLW then realized that it doesn't work well with a daycare baby. I was scared for daycare to do this with him, so I ended up doing the more traditional oatmeal/purée route. A little BLW on weekends. It all worked out ok.
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