-
@sea_bass: without really trying hard I can think of old posts that have covered affairs and alcoholism. So I don't think that's a fair statement. But I'm GLAD there aren't more posts on these topics as that hopefully means our community members are not experiencing these things.
-
@lilyofthewest:
For what it's worth, I welcome what you add to the community by not fitting into some of the more common demographics! Truly.And everyone knows me, and that I am a big proponent of holding hands and singing kumbaya, but I honestly don't think she meant to be malicious at all. @Junebugmama; correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't want to speak for you or put words in your mouth, but I see that you feel hurt for what you feel are instances of people attacking or not respecting parenting choices and stances that you have.
I am also all for debate and discussion. But parenthood is a very sensitive topic to any parent; what we do impacts our kids, and no one wants to feel that they are getting it all wrong. So I also think some level of sensitivity to that is warranted.
-
Meh... Nevermind.
All i will say - No one is forced to visit HB.
-
@junebugmama: I do understand your pov: that some things are more accepted than others. Forward facing, walkers, ect are the lesser of the evils but still very hot. I obviously have my opinions on each subject but I don't have the energy to defend my position should it be against the grain nor do I feel good by making another mom feel guilty so I usually avoid these certain posts. Although I don't agree with your vaccine stance I do think your a fantastic mother and a great resource here on HB.
-
@sea_bass: I think there are a lot more of those issues going on than we all (general we) may know of. I, personally, would not post to the main boards with something that personal - and if I *did* it would absolutely be gold. I've posted about similar things before and had them later deleted, because while I value the opinions and help of the community, it isn't something that needs to be on an online forum.
I also have to agree with @Mrs. Twine: - I'm a peace keeper, for sure, but when something bites my butt I definitely make my own stance known. I can see why some users feel this might be inflammatory (kind of like a post where someone announces they're leaving, to a chorus of whys/don't gos) but I think it's also hard to read tone on the internet.
I (for once, hehe, I usually am suspicious of people!) did not read the OP's post in a snotty/malicious/angry manner. I read it in my head as very matter of fact/questioning. That said, I agree that vaccinations (affect the larger population) and breastfeeding/FF, co-sleep, cloth diapering, etc. are pretty different.
Anyway, I definitely see some trends within the board posts toward certain manners of parenting. But, I agree with PPs that said it may be because all of the parents who disagree may not chime in. I definitely keep to myself on many of the opinion pieces because I just don't care enough to defend myself to others or try to change their view point - I do what works for me, end of story.
-
I had to think for a couple hours if I wanted to dip my toe in this thread, but here goes.
HB is, for the vast majority of us, a place to go where we can find respectful, varied opinions on parenting topics. I have yet to find another online forum with our level of civility. Now, is that because some of us are afraid to speak up? Maybe, and that's unfortunate, because I think different viewpoints make the world interesting.
As for this being a happy, fluffy site, as @MamaMoose: said, there have been topics on heavy topics in very recent threads. I still think, despite the increased anonymity of Gold posts, that a lot of us don't feel comfortable using HB as a place to spill our darkest secrets.
So as for HB attracting a certain demographic, I agree that it does. Most of us are married, middle class, educated women. Women working multiple shifts or a production line don't tend to have the means or time to spend their work hours on HB worrying about diaper bags. We are middle class because middle class women can afford to be on sites like this.
So this ended up being really long but I will end it by saying that I do wish we were more attractive to LGBT members/families. Whether you like it or not, they are growing into a more visible segment of our population and it would be great if we were a place where alternative families felt comfortable.
-
@TurtleDoves: I'm very surprised that you read the post that way. In no way was I saying anything with malice. I truly was wondering how many people agree and just chose not to have confrontation. Based on the majority of response posts, I don't think this thread is "going bad". I think a lot of posters actually feel a little similar, and responded that way. I'm sorry if you read my post a particular way that made you offended, but again I think that's another reason why some people with an outside view don't respond or post, because rather than take it as a personal opinion based on how I parent, it's taken with offense, when that's never it's intention.
@Mrs. Twine: you are correct -
@Bookish: I wish there were more LBTGQ members and families, too! I have several people within my family identify as L and would love to have more community members as well.
I would like to point out, on a personal level, that I am not middle class - at least, not part of what the middle class appears to be here. We are barely making ends meet, thus why I don't post on the gear posts, because well - I would never in a million years pay more than $40 for a diaper bag. I do work but still have time to post, I just opt not to post on the iffy subjects because of the reasons I listed above, or if I feel they aren't totally relevant
I try to just remember that everyone posting on the site is a real person behind a screen, with their own personalities, likes, dislikes, financial status, personal problems, etc. Some people in life are witchy, some are sensitive, some are antagonistic, some are peace keepers. I am a very sensitive person IRL but try not to take anything personally online!
-
@MRS. TWINE: Aww, thanks. And I should say that no one has done the slightest thing to try to make me personally feel unwelcome -- even members who I know feel very negatively or very conflicted about LGBTQ folks, divorce, atypical family structure have been kind and welcoming, even though I read a lot more than I post/reply. That's pretty unusual for an online forum or even for an in-person group!
Sometimes knowing that I'm an outlier here just makes me self-conscious -- I think some parts of us never really escape the feeling of being in middle school.
-
@lilyofthewest: I don't know that we ever really do escape middle school, no matter who we are. I have some areas where I'm sensitive, not that it really compares. But I really enjoy hearing about other experiences and value diversity here and elsewhere. I hope I see more of you around!
-
You say, "Lots of things that I say come across as controversial or "judgy" even though they are just my own personal opinion." But do you not see how that happens? It's quite obvious to me. Just look at last night's post where you said that elected c-sections are reckless. There are many reasons a mother would choose to have a c-section, and making blanket statements where you call another mother's choice reckless is going to make people feel judged the same exact way that you feel judged by the anti-vax statements you mentioned. Just like one of the moms who put their babies crib from day 1 will feel judged by you acting as if they don't care about SIDS.
Really, think about it. How is it okay for you to state your personal opinion in a way that insults other mothers, but you don't like it when people make statements about moms with your beliefs?
-
@junebugmama: I'm sorry that you felt like your parenting style was attacked in previous threads. This is the main reason that I don't post on many of the more controversial threads as I sometimes see a lack of respect for differing opinions. If I disagree with someone, I'm not sure what I have to gain by going back and forth on the issue with them on the internet. You have a right to your opinion and I have a right to mine. Arguing about it online doesn't cause anyone's opinion to change.
Anyway, I do feel that everyone on HB is trying to make the best choices for our families and be the best parents that we can be. I come here for the support and the community feeling and also to know that I'm not alone in this journey that we call parenting.
-
I too wish there were more LGBT voices here, but otherwise I think it's be inclusive. Otherwise, a lot of people are more conservative than me, but I guess I just embrace that as part ofThe diversity of the place. I don't think anyone has to agree with me and I don't think it's a flaw with me or with the other people. I'm glad that we all do things differently, otherwise what would be the point?!
-
@wonderstruck: I'm not saying that we can't all have differing opinions. I'm not saying that someone can't totally think the way that I parent is bananas, and share their beliefs. My post was about finding it to be unrealistic that so many Moms all seem to agree all the time. I just don't see how that's possible.
Where I live the hospitals no longer allow for "social" inductions or c-sections. This is due to statistical information regarding the dangers for mama an baby. Perhaps, I should have explained why I feel that way rather than just making the statement. I appreciate your point and will remember that going forward
-
@sea_bass: I think some of those topics are avoided because they are so sensitive, it is the internet & people are typically less gentle, and during those experiences people are often reluctant to share when they're not certain how gentle those responding will be. That and like @sorrycharlie: pointed out, then it's on the internet for everyone to see. FWIW, I've posted on 2 of your 3 taboo topics. Not entirely openly, but still posted.
@lilyofthewest: I'm so glad you're here! When topics regarding acceptance of sexuality come up, I often cringe because I worry about lurkers (we all started as lurkers!) seeing some negative responses and feeling like they won't fit in here. I wish there was a stronger LGBT presence here. Families come in different shapes and sizes, but the love in each family is no different. I hope as time goes by you feel more comfortable here
I think there are topics where we all feel like outsiders. I am very aware that there are a set of norms I don't fit into here: I haven't had a baby, I don't own a house, I didn't finish college, my household income is far lower than the HB average, I do not believe in a god, I am not a size 4 nor am i an exceptionally healthy eater. So while I don't fit in to what I perceive as the HB 'norms', I still think my voice is one worthy of sharing, not because I think everyone should agree (if that were the case, I'd just talk to myself in the mirror!) but because I want to share and have appreciated the respectful (for the most part) discussions that take place here and by bringing a different view to the table, we are expanding our views of the world. Sometimes it feels crappy to be the odd man out, but if you're comfortable with where you're at, there's no reason being the odd one out needs to be a bad thing!
-
Upon reflection and reading the clarifications, I think the intent of the original post was more like "Are there moms who feel like their POV/demographics are underrepresented here on HB?" In which case, I think it is a perfectly valid and non-inflammatory question. I personally feel fairly well represented but I can see that there are populations and perspectives that are less visible here. I think it is a worthy cause of all organizations/communities to seek diversity and, as such, it is important to ask this type of question occasionally. It helps us remember that there are other kinds of people and other kinds of opinions and what is said by the majority s not "the truth".
-
I think a lot of users don't speak up when they feel like their opinion goes against the norm or is unlike several of the posters before them. I rarely comment on the "what's for dinner?" threads because I am way too embarrassed to say a box of mac n cheese while other users are having couscous and duck!
-
@mrs. bird: +1
-
@sea_bass: well said.@Bookish: I like
I'm not even gonna go there...how bout those cardinals last night, hmm
-
@junebugmama: Well if we're strictly discussing just how many moms agree on varying subjects, I think that your examples (pro-vax, not co-sleeping) are pretty typical for most moms in the US, which is where the majority of bees are from. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with not being part of that majority, I fully support LGBT families, single parents, SAHDs, etc. I'm just saying that seems to be what is most present here. I'd hate for anyone to feel like their opinion isn't welcome here because they don't fit the majority mindset (well, except for the people that choose to be snarky and say nasty things about other's views, majority or not.)
From what I've seen, people are generally welcoming to other thoughts and parenting styles so long as it's given respectfully. For example, if you see people discussing having to move their babies to the crib early on because they're not getting any sleep, there's a big difference between saying, "Co-sleeping has worked great for our family, and I love that I have to worry less about SIDS with it. Maybe if you tried XYZ it could make things easier if you wanted to give it a try too." and saying, "Why would you put your baby in their crib where there's a higher risk of them dying from SIDS?" And yes, the same thing goes for vaccination POVs, although I agree with PPs that it's more of a hot topic since it can affect their children too. And I'm sure it does happen sometimes where people just assume most bees agree with their stance and post something not so nice about the other side - while they may be right about most bees agreeing, I do think that is a situation where we could all be a bit more mindful of the fact that we don't want anyone feel like an outsider.
Also I'm curious - for the bees who are LGBT, how do you guys think we could make you feel more included? Obviously we can't change the percentages of how many bees here are straight and how many are not, but what posts in particular make you feel like an outsider? The first thing that comes to my mind that we can possibly change is thread titles that read, "Does your DH ...whatever" instead of using SO or some other gender-neutral title.
-
I'm totally an outlier here. We're broke, I buy my shoes at Target, and I enjoy fast food cheeseburgers. I formula feed my freakin' awesome kid (and plan to FF the rest of them), she eats food from jars, and sometimes I just let her cry. We don't obsess over screen time, and she's slept in her crib from a couple months old (and I like it that way!).
While there seems to be so much that separates me from a lot of the ladies here, I've still managed to make some good friends. I think if you seek the positive, look for the similarities, and get to know people beyond their income and level of crunch, it won't be hard to find people you really like. Once you actually get to know some of these ladies, you realize we're all not so different after all.
-
@wonderstruck: I think attracting LGBT parents and making them feel more inclusive is worthy of it's own thread.
@lilyofthewest: hey there, hometown homie!
-
After reading this thread, I realize that I avoid more controversial topics on here like others. I left another site because I got utterly flamed for expressing how I felt about my MIL. I remember feeling like a community who once embraced me, scorned me. This was the same time I was going through it IRL with my knitting group. I was truly without support after the birth of my baby.
I returned here and chose to be more thoughtful and careful about my interactions. The introduction of Gold really made a great way to express the tough stuff without it leaking all over the Internet. I think HB is crunchier than most places on the Internet while still being a great resource. I remember reading a blogger's post about formula feeding. It made feel okay about weaning at 8 months old.
I'd love to see LGBT, single motherhood, and blended families better represented here.
-
To those who replied to me...
I visit other formus and there are large threads for people trying to cut down on alcohol, people dealing with affairs, managing step children etc. things you really rarely see on this.
I'm not saying i want people to have problems, im saying we all do, but id go elsewhere to post anything of that nature. As its rarely posted on here I feel like rather than practical advise id get alot of internet hugs. That's fine, it's the tone of this forum.
As someone said most mums are married, that's also completely untrue-in the UK only half of children are now born to married parents. Statistically there is a much higher representation of married people on this site. Again, nothing wrong with that. But a relevant observation given the thread tittle.
Also gold really doesn't afford you privacy. Anyone with 25 dollars and a PayPal account can read your private thread.
Again all just observations. If you're all happy here, that's great.
-
I think the underlying message here is that regardless of the difference of opinions, everyone is looking for the same outcome:
People, who despite a different in opinion, have respect for each others' choices and only want the best for their families, no matter what social and socioeconomic box their family fits into.
For my home situation: we are barely making ends meet, have crazy familial situations, haven't had luck with having kids yet, are in a mixed-religion marriage with mixed-race families among us.
Even though I may agree or disagree with other posters, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and all that matters at the end of the day on HB is keeping ourselves grounded and having some great people to talk to on.
-
@wonderstruck: Yes. The way the differing opinion is represented is what is the issue.
If people have put some serious time in researching about non-traditional (or maybe in a sense traditional) methods of parenting, birthing, whatever, then I think the best approach is help educate and inform those who do not know about it, good or bad. Rather than saying well this is what research says, therefore you are hurting your child and you are doing things wrong. It is all about the approach, ESPECIALLY with sensitive topics.
I do feel like HB is an overall accepting community for everyone. It is by far the most sensitive and respectful forum I have seen. I hope anyone lurking who may not feel like they will be accepted steps up and joins in the conversations. I know a vast majority of the bees value your opinions and will make you feel very welcome.
-
@Mrs. Jacks: I was thinking the same thing with regards to people on HB being more conservative. I am very liberal and would love more LGBTQ voices on HB. I have some friends who are going to be parents soon and I don't tell them about HB because I'm not sure they would feel comfortable here because it is super duper straight.
@mrs. bird:
Agreed. There are topics where we have all been in the minority voice but some of us deal with this differently. I occasionally engage, but a lot of times I just back away slowly from the posts or lurk.
-
I would agree with you to a certain degree. I think this community can get too caught up in keep up with the Jones. I also think that the way the Bees have set up this community, they have boxed themselves in as a place for new moms. I'm hoping that will change in the future. I'd like to see more moms with older children. I'd also like more foster and LGBT parents to chime in.
-
@travelingnanny: I'm hoping that it expands to older kids too as the Bees' kids are getting older.
-
@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: @wonderstruck: I think will start up a new thread on that & not thread-jack here.
-
@mrsjazz: I refer lgbt folks, but they don't stay for whatever reason.
-
I know I just don't comment if it's something I can't relate to or too much of a hot topic where nothing but an argument would come from it.
@sea_bass: In fact I can't think of a non-married member or a single mum
Me!
I think I'm the only one though.
-
@Mrs. Jacks: @mrsjazz: hahaha just this morning I was telling my husband how HB leans so much farther left politically than he and I do! Socially I'm there with you on some big topics: I'm pro choice, I can't wrap my head around why anyone would oppose same sex marriage, I could care less if a parent is single, married, gay, straight, etc as long as they love and provide for their child, etc. But fiscally I think of HB as extremely liberal.
-
@MamaMoose: I might scare you then if I didn't self-censor for the hive
My political beliefs hover somewhere around those of Gandhi and Dali Lama (if only I coul be that good of a person)!
-
@Mrs. Jacks: well you see that's exactly why I disagree with the idea behind this post. I KNOW you and I have some pretty big differences politically but I still like you lots! And we get along swimmingly (as far as I know
)
-
@MamaMoose: I agree and fwiw, I have never categorized you as "conservative" or given second thoughts to what you might or might not believe
-
To answer your basic question and avoid the controversial topics:
Yes, I think this website attracts a certain kind of mom. It feels like women here tend to be married, of a certain age (more late 20s-late 30s vs. early 20s), highly educated, liberal-leaning, and upper middle class. I think there are probably a lot of reasons for that, including that women in white collar jobs have more time/ability to post online all the time, that a lot of people migrated from weddingbee, and that once the first core group of women here represented that group more similar women are likely to stay/have fun vs. people who feel like outsiders.
As for why that certain type of mom often have similar views--- I think people who are older and educated probably tend to put a lot of trust in professional recommendations and research. I think people tiptoe around breastfeeding more because not everyone CAN do it, and also because it can be particularly challenging if you go back to work soon after giving birth. Whereas vax is something everyone CAN do if they want to.
-
@mrs. bird: Well said!
-
I appreciate posts that reflect strong Christian values. There are very diverse thread topics. Being respectful of all views in a community is very important to me. I don't like the drama.
-
@mae: Yes, yes, yes.
I think it all comes down to language. Respecting someones' parenting choices does *not* always mean you agree with them, and mirror their actions in your own life.
It may appear that everyone reads from the same parenting manual, but I really don't think that's the case, here. "Happy mom, happy baby" is a great mantra to remember on this forum, as we truly don't know the circumstances and conditions that contribute to a mother's choice.
If anything, hostile language and judgement will always be met with opposition. Phrase your opinions - however unpopular or "alternative" - with class, and you'll likely be met with appreciation and understanding.
For what it's worth, I welcome what you add to the community by not fitting into some of the more common demographics! Truly.
- Google Plus
- Stumbleupon
- Twitter
- Facebook
- Pinterest
- Favorite0
85 comments