coconut / 8299 posts
Hmmmm. All I can say is that I vote based on what I believe, religion-based or not. Since religion is so ingrained in me, I can say it would be hard not to vote based on it since it's a HUGE part of me. If I had to 100% separate church and state, I wouldn't be able to vote at all. And as a citizen, I have a right to vote. So it's a bit complicated to rationalize. But it's not complicated to me. I just vote based on my beliefs. That's it.
cherry / 142 posts
I was born and raised Catholic and this topic is one of the reasons I don't associate much with that religion. Love is love in my book and there should not be laws against that especially with the protection marriage can give a couple (estates, medical decisions, children). I feel like our kids are going to be looking back on this and say how crazy it was that their parents ever lived in a time when gay marriage wasn't legal. I hope so anyways But on the other hand I am respectful of other's opinions and applaud you for sticking with them. I may not agreet but think it's admirable
pomelo / 5321 posts
I am a Christian and I support gay marriage. I have a dear family member who is gay and has been with her partner for 7 years. Her partner is family to me. They are obviously in love and want to get married and have children. I believe that they deserve that just as much as I do.
@Leialou: "I don't think people who are gay are excluded from God's love, even if they get married." YESSSSSSSS!
clementine / 994 posts
I'm a Christian, and I support gay marriage. Christ called us to love everyone, not just those we agree with. And no matter what the Bible declares as sin, it also tells me that I am not the one to judge others.
hostess / watermelon / 14932 posts
@banana: this is understandable. I think it's totally normal and natural to vote based on your beliefs! (That's mainly what compromises a vote). I just think that something like gay marriage, which regards a person's basic rights, should be allowed and not need to be voted on, if that makes sense.
coconut / 8234 posts
Wholeheartedly. I support equal rights for everyone. I don't even understand why this is something citizens get to vote on. Not allowing same sex marriage is a blatant violation of the civil rights of all same sex couples...American citizens who work, pay taxes, and fight for this country. Religion should have no place in a government providing civil liberties to its citizens.
coconut / 8299 posts
@sorrycharlie: I hear you and totally makes sense. I was just trying to answer the question about how we separate church/state when we vote and it was really tough to answer that!
I also believe similar to what @mr.bee said. I wholeheartedly believe that churches have a right to decide who they marry. If your religion supports it, then I have absolutely nothing against it. Mine does not so I do not. It's never been confusing to me.
pomegranate / 3706 posts
I recommend that all the Christians against gay marriage watch the documentary "For the Bible Tells Me So." It discusses what the Bible REALLY says (and does not say) regarding homosexuality. I am a Christian and I support gay marriage.
hostess / wonderful persimmon / 25556 posts
I support gay marriage. I voted AGAINST Amendment One (as did my county). Too bad it didn't help.
bananas / 9118 posts
I absolutely support gay marriage, I think that it is hard enough to find someone you love and who loves you back, whether you are men, women, or one of each.
I've been trying to write a well thought out post that shows that I respect others with differing opinions. I just don't understand how gays threaten marriage and have difficulty with religions that say we should love and support everyone, yet exclude certain people for who they love.
One of my best friends is gay, and it breaks my heart and makes me very angry that he doesn't have the same rights that I do.
As mentioned in the other post, This American Life on NPR did a great show with Dan Savage on being a gay and Catholic and how is devoutly Catholic mother supported him: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/379/return-to-the-scene-of-the-crime (Scene 3)
eggplant / 11824 posts
I fully support marriage equality. Marriage as an institution has been ever-changing; it is not simply “between one man and one woman”. Throughout history, marriage wasn’t always available to certain social classes, or between social classes (in Europe – not talking about strict caste systems), women didn’t have choices of marriage partners, and of course well into our recent history – interracial marriage wasn’t legal. All these relationships were between one man and one woman, and were not relationships eligible for marriage. So, to me, that’s a losing argument as the institution has never been as rigid and well defined as some want it to have been.
Also, I don’t really get or respect the argument that you should vote your beliefs regarding SSM. You can believe whatever you like, but there’s a big difference between believing something and deciding that your personal BELIEF on an issue should therefore trump someone’s LEGAL RIGHTS. You don’t have to agree with same sex relationships or personally support them in order to believe that people should be treated equally under the law.
A marriage contract is a legal document between individuals and the state. It isn’t validated by any church – you are afforded no greater or lesser set of rights if you get married in a full mass in a Catholic church, or at city hall, or at the beach. It’s a civil contract. No one is trying to force any church to marry gays – just like no one is trying to force any church to marry people who are not religious or who are of a religion differing from that of the specific church.
I don’t think the civil rights of a minority population should be up for popular vote – especially with the amount of misinformation and vitriol that is spread on this issue.
kiwi / 525 posts
@yoursilverlining: Nail squarely hit on head. You said it exactly as I wanted to but couldn't articulate so well!
persimmon / 1099 posts
@yoursilverlining: These are fantasic observations....
So, to those who dont support gay marriage do you also not support non-religious marriages?
pomegranate / 3398 posts
I absolutely, 100% support gay marriage. My stepbrother and his partner have been together more than 13years and have been legally married for 5 of them. They just recently adopted a beautiful little boy and are a wonderful family.
No one. And I mean NO ONE should have the right to tell them that their love isn't as special as the love I feel for my DH. That shouldn't be allowed, In my opinion.
I wouldn't allow anyone to tell me I couldn't marry my DH just because they didn't like it. What I do in the privacy of my own home is no one else's business.
Two men or Two women being legally married doesn't alter the sanctity of marriage anymore than the rising divorce rate does.
Being a christian ,to me ,doesn't include being judgmental of others and their choices.
blogger / watermelon / 14218 posts
I voted "I'm not sure" because I am also Christian and my faith does not support gay marriage, but I do believe everyone should have the same rights no matter what their sexual preference is. So maybe I support gay marriage in a legal sense (civil unions? common law marriages? combining and division of assets? birth and adoption of children? next of kin?) but for me personally, marriage as an institution is so closely tied with the church, since that's what my own marriage is centered on. So it's hard for me to separate the two to think about this issue.
My brain hurts when I think about things like this so I just shut down.
blogger / watermelon / 14218 posts
@yoursilverlining: are you an attorney? very well said!
pomegranate / 3388 posts
I support gay marriage.
Also, I will support my daughter no matter what, and if she turns out to be gay, I hope she is given the same right to marriage that any heterosexual couple is. No matter what her sexual preference is, I would hate for her to grow up in a world where gay people are treated as second class citizens.
pomegranate / 3314 posts
I am a practicing Catholic and I support gay marriage. Like others on this thread, I tend to look towards the larger lessons of Christianity and one of the biggest ones is tolerance.
admin / watermelon / 14210 posts
Completely support gay marriage. Always have and always will.
blogger / wonderful cherry / 21616 posts
Wow, this is one of the most civil conversations regarding gay marriage rights I've ever seen! I try not to express my views on this anymore since I have been bullied for it in the past. But I made sure to vote in the poll
Good job hb community!
coconut / 8299 posts
I feel similarly to @mrs.wagon. Which is why my original post said "I wouldn't know how I would feel". My religion does make topics like this confusing and part of me swings one way and then other on other days. Not just on gay marriage. But a lot of other political issues which I won't get into.
I think that's part of life (at least my life). Even highly religious people have doubts because the logical side of your brain takes over from time to time and will try to trump your gut. I basically agree with what everyone has said on this post (great arguments for both sides). Civil union? Of course! Legal rights for all? Most definitely! Religious beliefs against it? Yes! It's not that black & white. For some people it's VERY clear and that's great! More power to you. Do my beliefs make "sense"? No, not at all time. Sometimes they even sound hypocritical. At the end of the day (with all of the back & forth) I choose my religion and I go with that. Otherwise I will be rationalizing every single thing that my faith tells me and that's not how I choose to live my life.
I don't mean to speak for the other 25%. This is just my opinion.
kiwi / 553 posts
@yoursilverlining: Wonderfully said.
I wholeheartedly support gay marriage, period. Who is anyone to say who gets to love whom, if they are two consenting adults? I don't get why it's something that's brought to a vote.
GOLD / wonderful grape / 20289 posts
I do. I've been close with a few gay people in my life, and I want them to be able to have what I have.
coconut / 8299 posts
@coco bee: I agree! Love the HB community! I started this post well knowing that I would be in the minority. But I wanted to hear other people's opinions on this. Not to sway my own (I'm pretty set on this one). But it's great to hear opinions about it that I haven't yet heard from my community.
coconut / 8854 posts
I am with the minority and I do not support gay marriage for religious reasons.
bananas / 9118 posts
@banana: also very well written, I appreciate that you see not everything is clear cut. You are lucky to have such powerful faith, I don't have that and spend my time questioning much of what I was brought up being taught.
kiwi / 553 posts
@banana: I have a question, and I mean this respectfully. And anyone can answer if you'd like - I'm genuinely curious!
In your post, you mention that you're in support of equal rights and civil union, just not gay marriage. Did I understand that correctly?
I ask because I am not religious, but I considered myself married to my husband because I am in the eyes of the law. I have a marriage, but not a religious marriage. How would a non-religious marriage between two men or two women be any different than MY non-religious marriage? Why is a civil union okay for gay people but not marriage?
I will end my post with a smiley as I hope I didn't butcher what I was trying to say and hope I remained respectful while saying it.
cherry / 108 posts
I absolutely support gay marriage and always have (or at least for as long as it has been an issue on my radar). I genuinely don't understand why others would oppose it. If you're not "for" it, then don't marry a same-sex partner!
Like others have pointed out, it's clear that the country is moving in the direction of marriage equality (NC's recent vote notwithstanding)... I just think our country will be embarrassed about how long it took us all to get there.
As to the religion-based arguments against gay marriage, I will bite my tongue!
coconut / 8299 posts
@lemondrop: I totally know how you feel. It's really hard and I struggle with it a lot. At the end of the day, it's all about choices and I choose to believe, even though my head tells me "No, there's no way Noah built an ark big enough to house all those animals in it. Nope. Not possible." haha. It's a choice and I choose my sometimes unsensical religion because even though it makes somethings very confusing for me (like this topic!) it also makes other important things very very clear.
coconut / 8299 posts
@shimmer: Thanks for your question. Like I mentioned before, it's hard for me to explain it because you're right, it doesn't make sense. Sounds hypocritical (even to me!). Logical banana says "Everyone deserves to have the same civil liberties as everyone else....gay or straight." Which of course I believe and support 100%! I have many, many gay friends whom I love and adore and don't think they deserve ANY less than I do. Why would they? The other side of me believes that "marriage" is a union between a man and a woman, which strongly ties in with child-bearing. So the two sides conflict as it pertains to the "law". Church/state separation is really confusing for me. The question was about same-sex, which (in some interpretations of the Bible) do not condone. There are other many variations and interpretations of the Bible so I can't speak for everyone. But for my religion and the way it is interpreted, it is not accepted. Why is it not accepted? I can't answer that. I believe in what the Bible dictates so that's why I go with that. Sorry, I can't seem to explain it any better. I find it really hard to verbalize my religious beliefs in thoughtful, coherent and logical ways that will make sense to others. =\
blogger / pineapple / 12381 posts
@banana: It's great that you can articulate your beliefs. I definitely think it helps understand the other side...
But you just brought up a question for me about reproduction and marriage. What if my partner and I decided not to have kids? Would that have been wrong in your Christian belief system too? (I'm not saying this in any kind of accusatory way, just trying to dig deeper into the beliefs)
kiwi / 553 posts
@banana: Thank you for your well-thought out and respectful reply. I applaud you for having such strong beliefs with regards to your faith and also for having the ability to see that sometimes it is illogical but having the cojones to believe anyway!
I can see how difficult separation of church and state can be for those who have strong religious beliefs - how is it that you can vote on something separating out something that is truly part of your core values? Thats why I don't think that civil rights should be put to a vote IMO.
I have to say - I big puffy heart LOVE HB for how respectful everyone has been!
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