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I'm gonna say - sure, let people by alcohol with food stamps.

I did my anthropolgy thesis studying the eating habits of homeless people. One of the main reasons people become homeless is substance abuse, and the defunding of mental health clinics that began in the 1980s. Malnutrition is a significant problem among homeless people, due to a lack of access to healthy food, as well as as substance abuse.

Detoxing from alcohol is dangerous, especially from people who are significant users. And for some, it is a necessity to maintain a level of intoxication if there are no detox facilities available (I was studying rural homelessness.)

The standard rate for selling food stamps is fifty cents to the dollar (let me stop here and saying fraud is extremely, extremely rare. It is less than the number of instances of when the government accidentally under pays someone.) This means if someone with no other access to capital requires access to alcohol in order prevent a dangerous detoxification, they also reduce the available amount of resources they have for food by half. This further contributes to poor health, making it more difficult to become sober, maintain housing or find work.

OBVIOUSLY, the easier and better answer would be to prevent homelessness by providing affordable housing and make healthcare including safe detoxification facilities readily available.

My point is - yeah, it's easy to judge why someone is spending their money on something else withoht judging the system that got them there in the first place.

@.twist.: insert like button here.

@Mrs. Jacks: I'm not saying it's not hard to be poor. I'm not saying we shouldn't help them. I'm not even saying that it's a lot of money that we allocate to that particular program. I am saying that nobody NEEDS chips, soda, cake, or ice cream. There are job training programs available that most people do not take advantage of.

@hellocupcake: I was just commenting that most developed countries wouldn't actually put them out on the streets. European countries, Australia and Canada all have pretty well developed social welfare systems.

As for preferring people not to eat chips and soda, I obviously agree with you... But Mayor Bloomberg tried to weigh in on that and we all see how well that went. No Americans like to be told what to do... And even I sometimes eat chips even though I know they are bad for me

Ugh. I think it's pretty easy to judge unless you've been that person who can't afford groceries.

We are "middle class" and money is tight. It's $100 a week to feed my family of 3 (4th has breastmilk). This is not all organic. And yes, I buy oreos and ice cream. Sorry, some people don't like veggies for snack all the time - does that mean if I'm on SNAP I don't get snacks? I feed my daughter first. She gets healthy snacks and if the leftover budget is tight, I pick a cheap snack for me (let's be real, junk is cheaper.)

Why can't we build each other up instead of knocking other moms and dads down? The majority are doing the best with what they can. Yeah there are some who abuse the system but not as many as the news reports like to claim.

@jedeve: I think the hot preprepared rule is really poorly designed!

@Truth Bombs: true, it's a multifaceted illness influenced by genetics, environmental situations, and behavior. And actually, the wealthy are more likely to be binge drinkers than the poor. But the government doesn't tell them that they can't spend their tax refund on booze.

Did the government force people to become homeless alcoholics? No. But does it do enough to fund mental health centers, affordable housing, and substance abuse treatment options? No. It used to, until the Reagan administration which created a sharp change in social policy and led to a dramatic increase in homelessness.

@lovehoneybee: yep, what's the thing anti-Walmart rage about all the time? The Gov't provides tons of subsidies to Walmart. One example is their wages are so low Walmartemployees have to supplement their in come with food stamps.

Holy elitism, Batman. Threads like this make me want to throw people directly into the cycle of poverty, if only for a day, so that they can pull their noses out of the air and gain a little perspective in life.

@Ra: I don't think it is elitist for someone to say they are concerned about the government being a good steward of their tax dollars (which clearly some (not all) of these items/activities listed by OP are huge waste of money). I don't think it is unreasonable to not want to pay for some of those things. I haven't seen anyone say that poor people should be denied help in times of need.

@mrscobee: i was going to say the same exact thing! A refund is money that you earned but witheld by the government until you file your taxes and show that you overpaid.

@looch: That seriously perplexes me, too. No rotisserie chicken? That's one of the most awesome quick, healthy, easy, cheap meals around...

@mrscobee: It's the general lack of both empathy and knowledge about just how difficult it is to escape the cycle of poverty that astounds me. People should only be able to buy healthy foods? Really? How exactly are they meant to cook these healthy meals if they are homeless or have their gas & electric turned off? How about the single mothers who are working 2-3 jobs and can't be home to cook for their children?

This thread is full of elitism. Anecdotal evidence about rampant abuse of the system (with zero statistical evidence to back up their claims), insinuations about how easy it is to feed a family on $50 a week, claims that people aren't trying hard enough for *your (collective) standards. IT's maddening.

I would love to know what kind of first hand-experience with families who live below the poverty line you all have. I've taught in extremely low income schools and have seen what parents go through to do right for their children, to put food, ANY food, in their bellies, a roof over their heads. If you've seen even half of what I've seen you would understand why some of these comments turn my stomach.

@Ra: AGREE!!!! I taught in the inner city of Chicago and saw abject poverty at its worst. I've also been a child protection social worker for a number of years and have seen poverty from a different angle through all the families I worked with. Poverty can strike anyone, any time, especially in the US where the leading cause of poverty is due to health care costs, and I sure hope none of those saying 'yes, restrict their spending etc' ever happen to fall on hard times.....

@hellocupcake: so, maybe the laws are very different where you are, but in my state, it is a very regulated system. For food stamps you cannot buy alcohol or cigs, and you cannot withdraw cash. In my state, if someone was committing fraud, the cashier would have to be aiding them- and I'm not even sure that can happen, because it is all recorded on a separate system. Improper use would be fraud. Also, if someone knew of someone committing said fraud, such person would actually be committing fraud by not reporting it. You have a right to your opinion, I just can't not stand up for the working class families that abide by the rules, the very regulated rules (in my state). I also know people who have not been able to get help when they needed it desperately because my state is SO regulated with food stamps. Other developed countries actually have better programs to care for their people.

Generally speaking, not everyone can just go out and make $50,000. It isn't an entirely free market.

@jedeve: I see, I hadn't considered restaurants, but it only makes me have more questions...as in, was the rule designed to keep people on assistance out of restaurants?

@Ra: I agree. In law school I interned in a DA's office in sex crimes, as well as family protection clinics. Often times, it's hard to get any food into these kid's bellies. My only hang up, is I agree you shoudn't be buying alcohol and cigarettes with the money, but food! One of my victims bragged to me how she got the system, and bought a new top of the line iPhone with cash assistance, but her kids clothing was in bad shape. But, most of the victims I worked with were hard working people trying to make it.

@Ra: I totally agree. And I'm honestly just confused as to why people apparently think so many low-income people are trying to game the system. Is it because that's what they would do if they were poor? If it's not what they would do, then I guess they just think they're morally superior to all those poor people who are supposedly abusing the system? Or, most likely, people need to spend more time putting themselves in others' shoes.

@jedeve: haha I agree that that actually produces more questions than gives answers.

@Ra: My opinion was totally biased and anecdotal. My step kids don't go to school if their mom doesn't buy groceries. But you can believe every single day she has an extra large cup of coffee in one hand and a smoke in the other, with her nails all done up nice. It is the most infuriating thing that my step kids suffer because of her. She can't even get her kids a damn lunch together because she spends all her money and our money, that we pay her for the boys, on brand name shit that is so unnecessary, and potentially damaging to their perspective on what is important in life.

I completely understand that she is a special case. That she isn't the norm and I empathize greatly with people who truly struggle. I don't agree that people should be told what to and to not eat, but getting tattoos? Seeing psychics? That kind of stuff? That is not what government assistance was intended for. You may not have been referring to my earlier comment, but I wanted to make it clear that I'm not of the opinion to stiff people who are just trying to make a decent life for their families and I am certainly not above them.

@MrsSCB: I think people fear putting themselves in those shoes-- because if you blame the victim for their situation, then there's no way it could happen to you, right? Moral failings are much easier to blame than bad luck.