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Nope. My doctor felt there was a "very significant" chance that I would end up with a c-section if I tried vaginally. That, combined with previous abdominal surgeries that would make an emergency c-section potentially dangerous, sealed the deal for me. Guess what? During the c-section, my son was so stuck that they had to vacuum him out. So, trying vaginally would have just put us all under stress and I would have had a c-section anyway.
Yes, it was a major surgery, but getting my baby here safe was my number one priority.
I support whatever choice a woman makes. We don't always know the story behind their decision.
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No. Your body, your choice. The end.
Personally, I would never have chosen to have a C-section and hope to have a VBAC. The entire experience from beginning to end was the exact opposite of what I wanted.
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Nope. I think moms should be able to choose and do what they feel is right for them. Lack of choices really caused me a lot of issues in my birth/postpartum period.
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@bunnymommy: There is a lot of information here: https://m.acog.org/Resources_And_Publications/Committee_Opinions/Committee_on_Obstetric_Practice/Cesarean_Delivery_on_Maternal_Request?IsMobileSet=true
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No offense but I could literally care less how anyone else has their baby. Whether it is vaginally, C-section or adoption. The baby is here, lets just all freaking celebrate!
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@Arden: I appreciate your final paragraph, regarding patient choice and education. Your initial comment was troubling to me, because, quite frankly, I"m not sure why you should be "bothered" by women choosing to have c-sections. It is a deeply personal decision, and I have no business being bothered by how any other woman manages her own body and her own health.
I get what your saying- and maybe there just isn't a better word to use. It is difficult when we don't agree with something for whatever reason (wouldn't make it ourselves, believe its unsafe, etc.), but believe in the right to make that choice anyway. I think thats where I wanted clarification from your initial post, and this most recent one clears that up.
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@Arden: "The maternal mortality rate for c-sections is 13 per 100,000 and for vaginal birth 3.5 per 100,000 in the developed world." I'm curious - is the mortality rate for c-sections higher because the women who are having them have a condition that makes them more likely to experience complications? In other words - is it the c-section that is causing the maternal demise, or the underlying medical condition they have?
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@Silva: I feel like my primary role as a doula is this:
1. Emotional and physical support
2. Education and information so the patient can make an informed choice
3. Holding the space, meaning that I do my best to keep the atmosphere around the mother respectful, calm, and comfortable for her.I've attended many births where the client made decisions I wouldn't have made for myself, but that doesn't matter. I defend her choices, and support her in her decisions.
What I can't stand by and watch is when patients are pushed into a corner or mislead regarding risk. I just want women to know the facts and make choices for themselves based on that knowledge. -
@Arden: When you say you are bothered by someone elses choice though that is not being supportive.
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@Arden: @pinkcupcake: I'm also interested about this -- the study you linked me to was really interesting (ahh over that word but can't find another one) - it said this: "Maternal outcomes that seemed to favor neither delivery route [talking about planned NVD vs planned c/s] included... maternal mortality" -- so that seems to contradict the numbers somewhat?
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@anonysquire: I can be bothered/concerned/saddened by someone's choice, personally, and still treat them with respect and support. If I disagree with my clients choice I keep my mouth shut and carry on, as long as I know she has made an *informed* decision.
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@lilteacherbee: I'm just responding to you bc you are the latest I see, but I guess I just must have a different definition of "elective" - I understand that means it was planned ahead of time, but I think choosing a c-section ahead of time is wise in all the situations that bees have listed where there were known risk factors at play if they delivered vaginally. To me the correct term in those cases would be planned (as in due to risk factors) rather than elective bc you have real reasons for feeling that's the safest decision...
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@Arden: Saddened by someones choice? I find it so bizarre that you care. How does it concern you how someone else gives birth? Even if they schedule a C-section out of convenience? That is so weird to me!!
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@anonysquire: I couldn't be a doula if I didn't care. I care about the outcome of every birth I attend - I want mother and baby to come out healthy and happy. If the mother makes a choice that I know has a higher risk, I care. That doesn't mean I don't support her, but I worry. If she chooses an induction at 37 weeks because she's tired of being pregnant and that leads to a c-section that she didn't want, I'm sad that she didn't get the birth she wanted. But I'll still be there holding her hand and lending my support.
I don't believe in circumsicion, for instance. It makes me sad when a client chooses it. But once she has made her decision I will keep my mouth shut. If I'm hired as a postpartum doula, I will come to her home and change diapers and help her care for that circumscision wound. I will give her tips of minimizing the baby's pain during the procedure. I will SUPPORT her. But I will still care, still be sad, still disagree.
Empathy is a crucial part of my job. I will always care.
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@runnerd: Yes, I agree
but I had comments made to me at the end of pregnancy where people questioned the c-section. A lot of "Don't you at least want to try??" Umm, no!
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@Weagle: Thank you.
@Arden: No, I wasn't questioning your statements because of your age, just the amount of time you have spent as a practicing doula, to the extent you were relying on that experience as evidentiary support for your previous conclusion(s).
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people who are bothered by my decision to schedule my section are not people with opinions that matter to me.
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@Adira: here here! (or is it hear hear?)
I voted no because other people's labors aren't my business!
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I voted yes, but I don't mean actually like... plan to delivery vaginally until you go into labour and "fail". If there was some medical or psychological reason that it was safer to have a C section at any point, I think that's the woman's choice to mitigate that risk.
The "yes", I voted for is more like a couple instances I've heard that the mother just wanted to be pregnant shorter, and know when the baby was coming. That seemed to be such a strange reason to undertake a major surgery.
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@Arden: Isn't the role as doula to support a woman in achieving the birth she wants? So if she doesn't want to attempt a vaginal delivery, which was the original question, wouldn't your role to be to support that decision? Because otherwise it seems like you are only truly in support of the decisions that align with your own values.
If a woman who is well educated and informed on the risks at hand chooses a c section I think that's great. There are some great studies that show that the biggest indicator of birth satisfaction is feeling like you were involved in the decision making process. More power to her, she knows what she wants! I support that fully, and it doesn't bother me or make me sad.
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@JennyD: I love this!
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@Silva: Did you read my reply to anonysquire? I think it answers that question.
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@Silva: Ya I am still not getting that she is supportive either.
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@Silva: @anonysquire:
Definition of "supportive":
providing encouragement or emotional help.synonyms: encouraging, caring, sympathetic, reassuring, understanding, concerned, helpful, kind, kindly.
@anonysquire: You asked why I care. Caring is part of being supportive.
Being supportive of someone does not mean I have to agree with them. It just doesn't. I can support someone's right to choose and love them without agreeing with the choice they make.
I've never had a client who had an elective c-section (only because one has never contacted me) but I've had plenty of clients who I supported through labors where they made choices I didn't agree with. I'm still close friends with some of them. They refer other women to me telling them how encouraging I was during their labors. That's support. Not agreeing with everything they do, but loving them through it anyway.
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Nope. For some people, it just really doesn't make sense.
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Also I feel the need to clarify something: when I say "elective c-section", I am not talking about those who have medical concerns, physiological issues, psychological trauma, etc. those are all valid reasons. I would call those "planned c-sections" instead of "elective". I'm referring to those who choose it for convenience alone.
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Nope, as long as mom & baby are healthy, whatever it takes.
@MsLipGloss: like you I had one of those vaginal births that 2+ years later I'm still feeling the effects of and am not sure what kind of surgery/therapy could possible make it better
I doubt I would have these issues had I just said, "okay, let's go for the c-section" -
I agree - your body = your choice
@Arden: I am hearing you. I do think you come across as wanting the best for your clients.. regardless if their beliefs align with yours.
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I believe that everyone should attempt to delivery vaginally if medical safe and possible.
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@rachiecakes: I don't know what would/could make it better. In so many ways it still feels like something that happened to me, not something that I experienced . . . if that makes sense.
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An OB I know told me once that if she ethically could, she would recommend to all of her patients to have elective c-sections. Her reasoning? Because she liked the way her husband's penis fit into her vagina, and it just seemed a shame to mess that up by pushing a baby out.
...I think that's kind of awful for an OB to say. I wasn't impressed, to say the least.
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@anonysquire: @Silva: I read through the thread and maybe I missed it, but I didn't see where @Arden: came across as being "unsupportive".
As a doula myself, many of the woman that I labor with, make choices for themselves, before, during and after their births, that I would never make personally and that I don't "agree" with. I have attended 2 elective c-sections, for non-medical reasons, and I fully supported their choice. You don't have to agree in order to be caring, loving, supportive, and a great doula.
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@allison: omg.
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I don't have any stake in this for 99.9999% of women I don't care what they do. There is teeny percent of women that I consider close friends/family in which this kind of issue is discussed and I do care in some way what they choose and why. But these are women in general who would share this information with me and want my opinion on the matter.
Though, I have to play devil's advocate here. I was reading someone say that if we subsidized health care (i.e. had to pay for the added medical expenses) then they would care. I think this actually has some pertinence to this discussion.
Ultimately, we all pay for everyone else's birth through our insurance premiums. If women are having more expensive births for convenience (i.e no medical, psychological, indications) we pay for that added expense.
Does that make this a little bit different since it is money?
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@Arden: thanks for clarifying. As a therapist, I can certainly think of situations in which my clients have made choices that concern me, but my empathy for them and support of them doesn't change. I think I found the word "bothered" to be a bit unsettling. Like, I imagine you bahumbugging random women you've never met for choosing a c section. As a doula, I can see how this issue is more personal because it is your job to concern yourself with other women's labors/deliveries. And if someone has hired you, then yes, I understand your concern and perhaps even feeling "bothered" if they make a choice that you are uncomfortable with. But for all the rest of the women who don't hire you as their doula, it doesn't seem like it's really your place to be "bothered" by how they deliver their baby, and none of your business why they made that choice.
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@allison: oh my!
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@Arden: I really don't want to chime in to this "debate" at all, but I wanted to offer some support. I understand your points and feel it makes perfect sense for a doula to care about birth. Just like most lawyers are passionate about the law, teachers are passionate about education, etc. Of course you care! I'd be very shocked if you didn't.
Maybe it's because I had a doula present at my birth?
I'm also surprised that many women in this thread think doctors only perform c sections when medically necessary. Very surprised actually. -
@Silva: Maybe "bothered" wasn't the best word choice. I meant it more in a concerned/troubled way rather than an annoyed/judgemental way.
@cmomma17: Thank you.
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@Arden: @junebugmama: yeah I didnt want to chime neither but I understand what you ladies are saying. As a professional, there are numerous decisions clients make that you may personally not agree with, but if it makes them happy, then you can easily support them. Being compassionate means showing empathy and being supportive which is probably close to the definition of being a doula!
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@Arden: I really wasn't trying to be a jerk. It sounds like you are a phenomenal doula, and your clients are lucky to have you.
I get my bristles up about anything that verges anywhere near taking away women's rights to make choices about their bodies because I think it's a slippery slope. So I probably bristled too quickly. Sorry
but I had comments made to me at the end of pregnancy where people questioned the c-section. A lot of "Don't you at least want to try??" Umm, no!
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