Hellobee Boards

@Mrs Green Grass: When looking at a new state/school district which resources would you recommend? We've mostly been using Greatschools so we can have a universal way to compare across schools here and there. DH also started using Niche, which he thinks has more details about their calculations. But I'm not sure who to trust when I see disparity between the two.

FYI: I googled " (state) DOE school report " and related documents came right up at the top of the search.

This site is super useful for people in Massachusetts: http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/analysis/default.aspx (especially the accountability tab, once you select a school.)

@Mrs Green Grass: Oh agreed, you can't just look at one figure and expect that to give you the full story.

I get the most information from parents that have kids in the schools. Our board of education is also very active and vocal on social media and they've self reported a lot of issues inside the school system.

@808love: I was surprised at the level of disrepair, but it's good in a way. Parents have begun to educate themselves and mobilize themselves. I always say that the parents are the ones that are going to affect the change in this town. The politicos are consistently doing nothing and we've all had enough.

@808love: This is one reason I am pretty "anti charter/school choice". We need to all band together and demand that every single child get a quality public education instead of funneling money out and leaving the kids who are already at a disadvantage economically in the dust.

A soapbox for another day

@Mrs. Lion: I agree in theory, but when I was actually faced with the decision of what to do for my son, you bet I put him in every lottery I could think of, and then some.

The problem for me is that yes, everyone deserves a fair and equal education. But when the system is broken, the kids that are in the schools are the ones that go through the growing pains when transitions occur and I didn't want that to be my son's experience.

@Mrs Green Grass: good points. I'll add that what you can find on paper about a school is still just a starting point. I've worked in schools that are ranked very high (rich, affluent populations with top notch state test scores), but observed many classrooms in these top schools where I would NOT want my daughter to be a student for a variety of reasons.

@looch: I think you definitely have some very valid points about things that need to change! We have portable classrooms too (we call them cottages) and they are very standard here because our area grows far too fast to build schools, but our district does make an effort to build new schools so it isn't the same as what you are describing. I guess my point is just that, from the outside on paper a school can sound like it is failing, but if you actually walk into the school you might see an atmosphere that is loving and thriving, despite the lack of funding. In those cases I think it is reasonable to send your kids to those schools, while you simultaneously fight for adequate funding. This may not be the case in your specific area, but I think in general I hear a LOT of "my school district is awful" comments, and I have a hard time believing that in all of those cases the school district is actually as awful as it is described. I think the media has created a mentality where people in general believe the schools are failing, and this is a huge fear for parents because they love their children and want them to have the best, so they jump on it without really understanding what really makes a good school in the first place.

@catlady: That's good to know! I'd figured that out after doing some digging around, but I feel like it's not clear (or fair, for that matter. It'd make more sense to call them Improvement Levels or something, instead of designating consecutively high-performing schools a lower general level if they don't have much to improve.)

If anything, looking up all of this information has shown me how little I know about schools in my area - and how sad that I can basically judge the performance of a school based on the affluence of the neighborhood it's in.

I don't have a problem with portables either. The sixth graders move out of the main building and into the portables after fifth. Kinda like a promotion.

@Mrs. Lion: I would too. Now that I am remembering, I had a portable when I was a sixth grader and we loved it. Felt more like a mini home as a student.

I am kind of surprised at all the portable love on this thread! It's really unacceptable in my area and I purposely chose to not apply for the lottery to the school with the most portables, even though it's a Blue Ribbon School. Sounds crazy, right? The reasoning is that those portables are on the grounds of what used to be the playground. The kids play in a fenced in parking lot that is literally right on the main road. No. Just no.

My view is that if parents continue to accept that, the school board and the town feels no need to change it. And they've shown that time and time again as that school gets removed from the list of improvements.

@Mrs. Lion: It's not all terrible. The elementary schools are mostly fine, it's the middle and high schools where you begin to see the gaps in achievement.

But, if you think about it, the goal of public education is that everyone receives the same education, regardless of where you live. That's the bigger issue at play, rather than a school being good or bad. The system is just too big to have that be a reality, you know?

@Mrs. Lion: I meant from a national perspective.

@Mrs Green Grass: thanks for this. I taught public elementary for a long time and I cringe when parents say they base their school choice off of something like greatschools. It really means little to nothing about what a child's personal experience will be in that school.

@looch: it stinks to hear that your district is so messed up. A parking lot playground is a big no. And you're totally right that things only change when parents demand it. I can't fault you for opting out of the broken system, but passionate parents like you are desperately needed there to affect change. It's a real catch-22 in districts that are so far gone - the parents who would do the most good don't want their children to go through that environment.

@Mrs. Lion: I don't think broken schools are a myth. I've worked in seriously messed up places, where kids aren't being served well, and the administration supports awful policies that hurt learning. And I know their are far worse places in our nations public education system. That said, I do think "failing" schools are over-blown & people label a school as "bad" when it's really just fine (I think this happens a LOT). I'm not a huge fan of charter schools for many reasons & I'm passionate about quality public education for every child. I think it's not too big to fix, just very complex and damn hard to make it better.

@looch: as for Blue Ribbon Schools, I was told by our school admin that there is a lot of paperwork and write ups but it doesn't necessarily mean the school did anything better than others. Only schools who want to go through the paperwork are nominated. Meaning you need to make a teacher or support staff or admin available to prioritize the writing of the lengthy report (over students and faculty instructional needs) to submit application and jump through hoops for the process. Again this was told to me by our principal when he decided not to do it over 15 years ago and I didn't fact check but I am just letting you know that Blue Ribbon is not what it sounds.

And I would not like the playground situation you mentioned earlier. We had an issue with that at my daughter's preschool and I was not happy!!

@808love: That's interesting, I didn't know that much about the process, so thank you.

With this particular school, I do think they deserve it...they turned an underperforming elementary school into a science magnet and they basically closed the achievement gap, but on the flip side, they have enrolled way too many kids.

I couldn't agree more (also an educator here). Greatschools is one of the worst indicators for what you might actually get in a school.

In Texas school accountability reports are available to public but I don't know if I've ever met anyone outside of education who has looked at one. It measures campuses in 4 areas:
1. Are students in grades 3-5 passing state tests
2. Are students in grades 3-5 making progress yearly on their tests.
3. IS the school closing the gap between economically disadvantaged students and not AND gaps between sub-populations
4. Are students ready for postsecondary education (measured by advanced levels on tests)

Really, it is a very smart accountability snapshot!