VP-elect attended the broadway show 'Hamilton.' When he arrived the audience cheered and booed. At the close of the show one of the cast members read a message to him that voiced concerns from the minority & LGBTQ community.
You can Google what was said, Trump's twitter reaction and Pence's statement. Do you think the message was appropriate (message/setting)?
pomelo / 5257 posts
I think it's perfectly appropriate. If you read the transcript, they were very polite. And Hamilton is a show about a poor Caribbean immigrant who becomes a founding father, currently starring the openly gay HIV positive son of Puerto Rican parents. Basically someone Pence would consider the antichrist. But he (and the other actors) are good enough to perform for him, just not have equal rights to him? I saw it, and there's a line that's like, "Immigrants: we get the job done." The show has a clear message and i think it's fair for them to express it to a person in power who is hostile to that message.
pomegranate / 3314 posts
I think this is a distraction from real, important issues surrounding the president elect.
eggplant / 11824 posts
Obama was heckled by a Republican member of Congress during the State of the Union for crying our loud - I am rolling my eyes so hard at this. He certainly didn't take to Twitter in a fit of rage.
Pence was (on the record) in favor of diverting AIDS funding to fund gay conversion therapy (in 2000! Not like in the 80’s or something) and he goes to a broadway show staring a gay HIV+ man and expects no reaction? Get out of here with that. The reaction he got was from the audience; what the cast said was perfectly polite and at the end of the show.
Trump should also be thanking his lucky stars for Hamilton-gate as it took all the media off Mr. "I don't settle"'s $25M settlement for defrauding thousands of students including many veterans.
wonderful pea / 17279 posts
@Anya: updated the initial post, I did not mean to imply the cast booed or cheered him when he arrived. Just wanted to paint the full picture of that evening.
wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts
Definitely appropriate!
What's NOT appropriate is Trump calling for them to apologize.
@yoursilverlining: I actually think Trump may have done this on purpose to get the headlines OFF his $25 million settlement!
pomelo / 5866 posts
I have mixed feelings. It was the cast's opportunity to draw attention to their message and ensure its delivery. However, it was not a two way conversation. As a teacher, I wouldn't want to be stopped and confronted in the grocery store by the clerk (or group of clerks) that opposed school policy where I worked, nor given a critique of my co-worker's lesson yesterday. Being a politician, it seems as if you are always on duty to your constituents so that would be the main difference I see. Nevertheless, I am glad Pence took it well and I understand why the cast seized their moment to share their views on an important issue.
grapefruit / 4455 posts
@808love: well said.
I also think this is being made into a much bigger deal than it is.
grapefruit / 4455 posts
@yoursilverlining: I don't think Pence expected no reaction... what I read was that he said this is what freedom sounds like. I do agree with that last part!! I wouldn't be surprised if it was on purpose either.
pear / 1837 posts
@808love: they didn't address another politician's platform- they were speaking specifically to Pence and his beliefs. I don't think your analogy really works. If in that scenario, a clerk's student was in your class and you were directly discriminating against them, yes.
I think absolutely they should have addressed him. More people need to call him and Trump out on their hate.
pomelo / 5257 posts
These are the kind of people who are being emboldened by the election of Trump -- and Pence. The more people can push back in whatever venues, the better. Plus I totally disagree with Trump's idea that the theater is supposed to be a safe space. Theater, like any good art, should challenge people's views sand make them think. Exactly what the cast was trying to do.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/us/alt-right-salutes-donald-trump.html?referer
clementine / 756 posts
I just about died laughing when someone on Facebook posted that it was "probably the worst thing to happen to a politician at the theater, which should be a safe place". The first comment was "I think Licoln might disagree with that...
But, seriously, I thought the statement was polite and appropriate.
nectarine / 2461 posts
@yoursilverlining: @winniebee: @Adira: exactly. really boils my blood that it seems to have sort of worked.
pomelo / 5866 posts
@LulaBee: You're right. It is different. If it were about a student in my class instead of a coworker's lesson plan, I would have preferred the parent setting up a conference, without the audience. But in my hypothetical situation, I would have had a chance to respond personally in the grocery store instead of comments directed at me.
coconut / 8472 posts
I thought the statement was polite and perfectly appropriate. A lot of people are feeling scared about what's happening in this country and I think it was wonderful that they had that venue to politely exercise their freedom of speech.
It makes me kind of sick to my stomach thinking about Trump yelled at them on Twitter, when he hasn't bothered to come out against any of the hate crimes happening in his name. And yes, Pence had a polite response. Of course he did, he's a seasoned politician.
pomelo / 5257 posts
@Adira: it is truly disturbing
@ShootingStar: I agree re: Pence's response saying he wasn't offended. It really shows his political experience vs. Trump's lack thereof...Trump will need to learn to let stuff roll off his back. If he's even capable. Though he does seem to thrive on petty feuding.
persimmon / 1188 posts
The statement was respectful and honest. The fact that the future president called for an apology is scary but this is a guy who throws a fit after SNL every week.
nectarine / 2821 posts
I've seen some funny jokes at least in the aftermath. One about trump wanting to build a "fourth wall" to make the theater safe again, one a bit less funny saying the man who was going to fight isis is now fighting snl and Hamilton...
GOLD / nectarine / 2884 posts
I was enthralled by the sheer guts of the Hamilton cast. Art is intended to be provocative. If ya wanna be entertained, go watch Impractical Jokers. Seriously, we just read The Crucible in my 11th graders class. Arthur Miller was put on trial for speaking out against McCarthyism. It is the imperative of great artists to use their platform for social change. If Pence thought he would go to a Broadway show that is explicitly multiethnic and not get a response, that's on him.
apricot / 431 posts
I don't understand why Trump can have freedom of speech and say whatever he wants, but no one else can? He's a special little snowflake with very thin skin. He needs to worry about our country and not his feelings. Ugh.
clementine / 880 posts
all Trump had to say was "we do plan to make american great again for everyone" instead of perpetuating the "us vs them" mentality of saying THEY need to apologize.
If he would have used twitter to say a message of unity rather than start a petty fight over people calmly and respectfully expressing their valid concerns then it would have been a non-event or even a positive that trump was starting to show the unity he talked about in his acceptance speech.
The fact that he can't control his petty emotions to think through the result of his words is scary. This is just one example, but there will be many more, and some will have much greater consequences than making him look like he's picking a fight with theater-actors. If he continues to react like this his whole presidency, he could be taken to be picking a fight with countries, which would not go well for anyone.
admin / wonderful grape / 20724 posts
Pretty sure that Trump generated this Hamilton storyline in order to distract people from the controversial Cabinet appointments he's been making. The NYT had the Hamilton story as the #1 story for a full day, pushing down the other stories and giving CNN/Fox something to talk about instead of his Cabinet appointments.
He's really good at generating reality TV-style storylines whenever he wants a break from coverage of a particular story (like his Cabinet). He did it over and over in the primaries and the general, and it looks like he will keep it up in coming months and years!
persimmon / 1436 posts
One wonders if Mr. Pence didn't anticipate something like this? It's a political show after all.
wonderful pea / 17279 posts
@mrbee: in that case the media needs not to take the Trump bait!
coconut / 8430 posts
@Mrs. Lemon-Lime: @mrbee: check out the latest post by Marc Cuban. It is basically saying "yep, we in the media have played right into his hands".
cantaloupe / 6669 posts
@mrbee: Gosh, you're so right.
I think the booing isn't that cool, honestly, but I'm not into booing at all, really.
I thought the remarks from the cast were perfectly appropriate.
grapefruit / 4187 posts
The booing was shameful, immature and disrespectful and the cast speech was in very poor taste. Im so glad that it kind of backfired on them because of Pence's mature response. They went low, he went high. And if this really is a distraction generated by Trump - good for him. I doubt it is though.
pomelo / 5866 posts
Personally, I think Trump is using his influence to stand up for his friend on Twitter. I am not sure if it is a maneuver. My coworkers/friends would stick up for me in a situation like that so I think that he was just doing his typical gesture of grandeur. Mainstream media and their audience will follow the grey area human interest story more at length than a clear cut decision made by officials. I am sure other outlets are covering the settlement in detail.
wonderful pear / 26210 posts
I am just curious about one thing though, what is going to come of Trump and his Twitter account once he's inagurated?
eggplant / 11824 posts
@looch: He gets control of the @POTUS account.......(though I suspect he'll just continue to use his own current account)
wonderful pear / 26210 posts
@yoursilverlining: I wonder if he'll be advised against it or not...considering his advisors didn't let him use it in the days before the election.
eggplant / 11824 posts
@looch: I would guess/hope he'll be advised against it; though what good will that do? He can't even control himself not to lash out at length about a comedy show or a broadway play. Imagine what happens when a world leader does something? Yikes.
GOLD / nectarine / 2884 posts
@Modern Daisy: In what sense was it low? Art has always been a vehicle for social critique. Hamilton is a play about social critique. Pence seems to understand this better than his supporters.
ETA: If we've gotten to the point that artistic social critique is considered "in poor taste," there is no real free speech left. Yes, we can speak, but people cannot tolerate it, so what's the point?
pomelo / 5866 posts
@Mrs. Sketchbook: Was this the first time the social critique occurred where they altered the post-performance to address a specific audience member? I've enjoyed watching plays with my family for decades and understand the venue but this is a different situation than just watching it.
wonderful pomelo / 30692 posts
@808love: They didn't alter the performance at all. They addressed Pence after the show was over as he (and others) were leaving.
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