Help- Newborn screams and screams at night, won't latch

By Foodnerd81 Dec 22, 2015

I posted yesterday about engorgement. LO is 5 days old and until my milk came in she was latching great and getting plenty of colostrum. Since my milk came in I got super engorged and she wasn't able to latch well. The last few nights she just screams and screams. I saw our ped and lactation specialist today and they gave me a nipple shield and she nursed beautifully in the office. This evening, not as great but I could eventually get her to settle and nurse. Tonight I was so engorged while she slept I couldn't raise my arms, so I pumped for a few minutes to relieve some pressure, but could still hand express more easily. She woke up a bit later and has just been irate. She latched a couple of times and got a little milk by she mostly just screams. Have her an ounce of the pumped milk, still screaming.

I don't know what to do. I'll call the ped again but please- any advice?? She's pretty much fine all day other than crying when we nurse but she gets there.

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21 comments

regberadaisy
GOLD / wonderful pomegranate / 28905 posts

Dec 22, 2015

Oh no, I'm sorry you're having a tough go of it. Do you think you have an overactive letdown? Like maybe because you're so full it's come out with too much force? When's the last time she nursed? Maybe she's not hungry? Over tired? Gassy?

Just spit firing!
yellowbird
honeydew / 7303 posts

Dec 22, 2015

@Foodnerd81: can you pump more and see if she will take a bottle? So you think it's because she is hungry or maybe she is just super tired and doesn't want to be awake but isn't sure how to settle.

I would try a tight swaddle, shushing, swaying or bouncing and loud white noise!
plantains
grapefruit / 4671 posts

Dec 22, 2015

It sounds like overactive letdown which means she is getting too much foremilkand not enough hind milk and this it is making her gassy. You could try block feeding. Feed from one breast continually for a while burp as frequently as you can!
sapphire
nectarine / 2173 posts

Dec 22, 2015

I'm sorry, that sounds terrible.
I would hand express or pump with a manual pump just enough to relieve the engorgement before trying to nurse with the shield.
However, if she keeps screaming, I would work on giving her expressed milk by syringe or bottle. 1 oz at 5 days of life is pretty good.
She might be gassy if the screaming starts after she eats...

Hang in there!
Foodnerd81
wonderful cherry / 21504 posts

Dec 22, 2015

I had pumped before she woke up so I was more worried she was mad it wasn't coming faster. I was not engorged or even that full when she started, and I tried with and without the nipple shield. She would latch for several minutes then start screaming again. Finally gave her an ounce or so of the expressed milk and that calmed her down though she was still sucking kind of frantically at the pacifier.

I'm worried to get into the habit of doing pumped milk- do not want to pump often! But she is kind of ok during the day. I don't know.
Foodnerd81
wonderful cherry / 21504 posts

Dec 22, 2015

@sapphire: screaming starts as soon as she fully wakes up bi try to get her on the breast before that point but keep missing it.
gingerbebe
cantaloupe / 6131 posts

Dec 23, 2015

It could be reflux. It's often worse at night. And babies with reflux often suck and drink more to soothe the heartburn feeling. Gas is also an issue until they learn to burp and fart well, which for my son was at 2 weeks.
erinpye
pomegranate / 3706 posts

Dec 23, 2015

My first LO did this. Milk coming in that late, refusal and screaming when it comes to nursing, it was miserable. (Those are all signs of tongue tie by the way.) That night, day 5, I was so engorged, it was miserable and I was desperately calling all the LCs and La Leche League members in the area, strangers, sobbing to them, begging for help. I hand-expressed a bit until I was softer and easier for her to latch on to, but we continued to struggle hard for 6 months. She would scream, arch, kick, flail, bite, and refuse. I would sweat, rock, and walk the house, shushing or humming, while nursing her. She was repeatedly diagnosed with reflux and the various meds did nothing. The only time she ever ate calmly was in the middle of the night when she was sleepy after she had already been sleeping for a while, or if I took a bath with her-- that soothed her a lot.

I had to start giving her food at 4 months, and supplementing at 5, and it wasn't until she was 6 months old that we finally figured out she had a posterior tongue tie and upper lip tie, impeding her ability to latch and nurse comfortably, causing her to swallow air, be hungry and unable to get enough, and colic all 6 months, and causing my supply to dwindle. Multiple doctors and LCs missed the ties, and our pediatrician looked specifically for it and told us she was fine. She wasn't. We finally found someone who knew what to look for and confirmed that she was indeed tied and restricted. We had her ties revised by a pediatric dentist, with laser, and she was immediately a different child, and never fought me again, or screamed, when I nursed her.

Tongue tie is a dominant trait and VERY common, becoming more so. I'd really just check and make sure that's not what's going on. Hugs, mama, and try a bath with baby: that skin to skin with the warm water is incredibly soothing.
mrswin
nectarine / 2433 posts

Dec 23, 2015

@Foodnerd81: My DD used to do this all the time when she was smaller. What we figured out with the help of the LC is that she wasn't hungry she just wanted to comfort suck and was irate because there would be milk pouring out! I had a very overactive let down and over supply. Now that she is older she can manage it on her own.

Have you tried nursing reclined, almost laying on your back so that gravity can help with the flow? Also are you opposed to using a pacifier? Maybe she is just looking to comfort suck?
mrswin
nectarine / 2433 posts

Dec 23, 2015

@Foodnerd81: Sorry I just saw that you think maybe she was mad that it wasn't coming faster. Next time try doing compressions while she is nursing, if she seems happy then maybe she doesn't mind the fast flow and was angry that it wasn't fast....babies are so confusing why can't they just tell us what they want lol
Foodnerd81
wonderful cherry / 21504 posts

Dec 23, 2015

@mrswin: I want her instruction manual!!
She does take a paci ok. She legitimately seems hungry- took over an ounce in the bottle then fussed for more again (the last bit may have been more comfort but she was spitting the paci and my pinky out). The really confusing thing is she's doing so well during the day. She nursed this morning with the nipple shield with just a little crying. Then just now I hand expressed just a little from the other side and she nursed with the shield like a dream. But as it gets to be night the screaming will start.
Anagram
eggplant / 11716 posts

Dec 23, 2015

@Foodnerd81: Sounds like a tongue/lip tie to me. Tongue ties can be "posterior" which means they are not very visible and are "sub mucosal", so many times pediatricians can miss them. Finding an LC who is very trained in these can help, or just finding a good provider in your area who specializes in tongue and lip ties and going for a consultation can help. Your LO sounds exactly like my LO1, who had a posterior tongue tie and lip tie.
Foodnerd81
wonderful cherry / 21504 posts

Dec 23, 2015

@Anagram: so she would be ok during the day but not at night? That's what's throwing me the most.
Anagram
eggplant / 11716 posts

Dec 23, 2015

@Foodnerd81: are you using the nipple shield at night, too? What I found with my LO is that she would get fussier and fussier as the night went on because it was like during the day, if she was feeding inefficiently, she was still getting enough to be satiated but not totally full...but by evening she would be starving, so the inefficient feeding would really piss her off.

I also had an overactive supply and letdown and it helped a bit when those were regulated, but the problems continued. Unfortunately, I waited so long (3 months) to have her tongue and lip ties clipped that we couldn't relearn how to BF correctly and I started EPing.

LO2 also had a Posterior tongue tie and started out nursing well in spite of it, so we didn't clip. But I'm now regretting it because she's actually becoming WORSE and less efficient as she gets older.
Foodnerd81
wonderful cherry / 21504 posts

Dec 23, 2015

@Anagram: I am using it at night too. When she is totally calm she can latch without it but at this point I'm preserving my nipples too. The nurse and LC at the hospital looked briefly for a tongue tie, since I asked, but none of us were worried since she was latching so well then.
hilsy85
squash / 13764 posts

Dec 23, 2015

@Foodnerd81: have you tried calming her down with a paci and then slipping your boob in? Or maybe nursing her with loud white noise next to you?

When she latches, how is her latch? How do your nipples look when they come out?
Orchid
clementine / 927 posts

Dec 23, 2015

I had a similar problem. I had to stay away from the pump and block feed to get my supply under control. It was really uncomfortable for a whole but any pumping, even if it was just to take the edge off, seemed to make things worse. Is baby's poop looking normal?
Foodnerd81
wonderful cherry / 21504 posts

Dec 23, 2015

@Orchid: I just talked to our ped again and she suggested pretty much the same thing. I'm just going to hand express when I really need to but I'm trying block feeding to get more of the hind milk into her. And I'm not going to feel guilty about giving her a little bottle of hand expressed milk when she is too worked up to nurse, because it doesn't even make sense to feel guilty about that!

@hilsy85: we tried both the white noise (helps a bit) and the paci then nip. It works but then I think (well, the ped thinks) too much comes out when she just wants a little and she gets more upset and worked up about it. Her latch is actually really good when she does.

@Anagram: I did also ask about a tongue tie. I had spent a long time with the ped yesterday between the BF support group she runs and our appointment after, and she said she checked really well for one and didn't see anything. Of course always possible it is there but I feel like it's the other things she said now, after talking to her. I'm really happy to have a ped who is also a lactation specialist- if our old ped told me the same things I probably would have doubted him.

She just woke up cranky but wouldn't really eat so we swaddled and Dh soothed her and we will try again later.
Pumuckl
pomegranate / 3601 posts

Dec 23, 2015

@Foodnerd81: just be careful with the hand expressed bottles, they might be all foremilk as well. Blockfeeding was my saving grace with LO1 and I went immediately to it with LO2.
Foodnerd81
wonderful cherry / 21504 posts

Dec 23, 2015

@Pumuckl: actually I just noticed that- I took one out of the fridge and noticed there was no fatty part sticking to the sides. Very thin and watery. How log would you block feed on one side? And how long did it take to balance out? With C I fed her both sides at every feeding from the start.
Orchid
clementine / 927 posts

Dec 23, 2015

@Foodnerd81: this is a tricky business, you can really decrease your supply if you blockfeed too much. Maybe just one side per feeding at first and if that doesn't work, two feedings per side.

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Help- Newborn screams and screams at night, won't latch

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